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Also people must stop ranting about the "One drop rule" in the USA. Rashida Jones, Jennifer Beales, and many others are NOT seen as black and very few challenge their refusal to self identify as black.
phenotype is what matters. Say for instance obama and rashida jones. Both are half black and half white. Rashida though passes for white so she does not face the same level of discrimination that obama would. When people talk about black people they are not describing someone who looks like her.
I don't think the dynamics between black in the US and brazil are the same. Blacks in the US have more social mobility than black brazilians. For the amount of afro brazilians that exist in brazil compared to the amount of blacks in the US there should be more representation throughout all levels of society. Also in the US there is an awareness that racism exist while in brazil there is more of a denial. Perhaps in brazil it is more appropriate to talk in terms of colorism since almost everyone there has some degree of black in them.
When affirmative organization says Brazil being 52% ‘’black’’ they are including the ‘’pardos’’ like Lula and Cardoso in this numbers, but Brazilians who look really black African or mulatto like Obama are not that big. They are estimated in 10% (subsaharan black look) in the average of Brazil, but blacks are higly concentrate in Rio de Janeiro and Bahia, and few in inner Brazil so I don’t think they are really underrepresentated.
About your comparation of the difference of social mobility of the blacks in Brazil and USA I am sure it isn’t just racism but in Brazil it is not easy for nobody. USA was the first modern country in the history where social mobility was widespreadly, and reachable for the average Joe.
Brazil has yet 50% of the population white, most of them concentrate in the center and south of the country descendent of a early XX century European immigration and we really didn’t have problem of integration in the host country, embrace the ancient Brazilian culture and racism against the locals what in similar cases happened all over the world.
It’s laughable put on the same level the racism in Brazil and USA or wherever, Brazil always will be the world’s big example on this issue, although it is not perfect.
When Brazil grown up economically in recent years benefited equally blacks, whites, mixeds…
What ever Lula's African ancestry might be it isn't visible in Lula. Try again!
And of course the issue isn't whether the USA is racist or not. Even Donald Trump will admit that racism exists. There is open discussions of racism in the USA. It is discussed and measured and then Latin Americans and Europeans call Americans race obsessed. Even as racism of a similar variety festers in their countries.
The fact is that the average white person living in a big city like NYC is way more aware of the presence of middle class blacks than will be true for people living in equivalent cities in Brazil. The issue isn't whether poor Americans are better off than are poor Brazilians. The issue is that fewer blacks in Brazil (and I do NOT mean mixed race people who aren't obviously of African descent) have reached the middle class.
Also you cannot have your cake and eat it too. If you want to claim that 17% of the elites in Brazil are "black" then accept the fact that 52% are black. You know fully well that 52% of the population is NOT black, even using US definitions, so toss out that 17% number! Brazil is a very skin color conscious society and there is a huge difference in how someone who is light skinned and predominantly Caucasoid is treated compared to a dark skinned African featured person.
My girlfriend is a dark skinned parda but I also had a blonde and blue eyed girlfriend with very nordic looking and I have never noticed different treatment for both, people always praised both as good looking. It is my personal experience.
[quote=EVANGELISTTI;51693997]When affirmative organization says Brazil being 52% ‘’black’’ they are including the ‘’pardos’’ like Lula and Cardoso in this numbers, …[/QUOTE
No one in Brazil knows that true Afro descendant population, meaning those who look like Obama or darker. It is MORE than 10%. But not 52%.
The current economic miasma has impacted the poorer more severely so many who had reached the lower rungs of the lower middle class are now back in poverty. Given that a disproportionate % of these are blacks and mulattos it therefore means that they will be the people most severely impacted, along with the poorer mixed Amerindian groups.
Yes these BRAZILIAN women do say that whites and other non blacks like Evangel do claim that they are over reacting. Interesting that in Brazil whites and other non blacks are always the ones who scream that everyone in Brazil is equal and that a very dark skinned black Brazilian from Salvador has the same access to opportunity as does a blonde and blue eyed person from Sao Paulo.
Evang, it doesn't matter what you notice. In fact did it dawn on you that when your darker friend is with you she gets better treatment..........because she is with you?
Why do you scream that you know better about what a black or mulatto Brazilian goes through than what they themselves report?
Listen if a non Brazilian arrives in Rio at 7AM by the time they get to their hotel in Ipanema they already know that you chat nonsense. Wealth in Brazil has a color and it is NOT black. It is quite clear that historic and contemporary racism explains the condition of blacks in Brazil and in the USA. But because the USA is more honest about this fact it has become easier for those blacks who do overcome the barriers of poverty to obtain upward mobility.
Evang you need to watch that video, listen to the Afro descent females who cover a diverse spectrum of skin color, discuss what they encounter in their lives. The light skinned women especially noting how free non black Brazilians are in making stupid comments. And there are many similar commentaries by black Brazilian women.
NO ONE IN THE USA will ever DARE say to a black person that they have a foot in slavery or in the kitchen, as one of the women reports. In fact no one will even connect black women to the kitchen as in the USA black women left the kitchen 50 years ago. 30% of black American women are in management slots and a similar number of younger black women have college degrees.
That is the point thanks God these ‘’affirmative racial boring’’ in Brazil is just small groups copying ideas from the US blacks. Brazil is another reality, another dynamic.
Brazil never had racist laws like USA or South Africa, the problem here what keep the mostly darker skinned people in the economic bottom of the society is that Brazil didn’t develop proper since slavery over.
When Brazil grown up darker and lighter people improve life equal. Brazil is not na simple society with few whites descent of colonial elites yet ruling the country and exploring the 90% dark people. During colonial times half Portugal (poor) immigrate to Brazil and 100 years ago many millions of europeans (poor).
You foreigner think just the blacks are the poor in maids services because you know only Rio, Salvador or São Paulo city (where the low skilled works are migrants from northeast) if you go inner Brazil you would see many whites in blue collar positions and in poverty.
In Brazil when the economy grow is easy share the new money but share existent money in the old elites hands is the big Brazilian issue.
So all Brazilian black and whites must have in mind our big problem is first create new wealth and second decrease the inequality. The richest don’t want share the wealth here with both black and white, there isn’t a white brotherhood like would say in African countries with white elites.
If we go in this line of affirmative politics we will awakening fifty millions of low class whites feeling wronged and history tell us what happen in this situations with rednecks supporting Trumps or worse nazis.
Evang you need to watch that video, listen to the Afro descent females who cover a diverse spectrum of skin color, discuss what they encounter in their lives. The light skinned women especially noting how free non black Brazilians are in making stupid comments. And there are many similar commentaries by black Brazilian women.
NO ONE IN THE USA will ever DARE say to a black person that they have a foot in slavery or in the kitchen, as one of the women reports. In fact no one will even connect black women to the kitchen as in the USA black women left the kitchen 50 years ago. 30% of black American women are in management slots and a similar number of younger black women have college degrees.
In portuguese say that someone has the foot in the kitchen or in the senzala (the slaver’s house in the farms) means someone having drops of black blood in them, notice some black physical traits in them.
It is not just said for women but for men too and may be offensive or not. Don’t have the idea of tell to the women back to the kitchen but that they are descent of slave who worked in the kitchen.
When whites lords had children with slaves they (some i guess) send their bastard children for the best works in the farms like the kitchen.
That is the point thanks God these ‘’affirmative racial boring’’ in Brazil is just small groups copying ideas from the US blacks. s.
This is because people like you like the status quo where blacks remain at the bottom, so you victimize these people, so only the boldest blacks dare speak out on racism. And in fact in major cities where there is more opportunity one would expect to see more upward mobility, so yes you see it in NYC, Atlanta, LA and Washington DC. How come not as evident in Rio where a large population of visibly African descendant people live?
It is a proven fact that black Brazilians are at the bottom of Brazilian society. It is a proven fact that ample barriers of race block them. In fact the Brazilian government in the 90s discovered that income disparities between blacks and whites INCREASE with their levels of education. This meaning that the income disparities between a white and a black with only high school education is NARROWER than it is between a white and black with advanced degrees. In the USA it NARROWED as one moved up educationally.
I asked you for evidence of BLACK high level corporate executives and large corporations owned by blacks. I am still waiting. A mulata announcer on Globo was very vocal about racism that people who show VISIBLE African ancestry have to face. She explained that it operates at two levels. The first where whites/light skinned people with naturally straight hair, and the second level is skin colorism where a light skinned black woman like her is given preferential treatment over darker people.
The word is out. Brazil turns out to be just as racist as is the USA but is doing LESS to solve this problem. You fight a losing battle! You hate BBC and various US media outlets because they shine a light on an area that Brazilian media outlets IGNORE!
In portuguese say that someone has the foot in the kitchen or in the senzala (the slaver’s house in the farms) means someone having drops of black blood in them, notice some black physical traits in them.
It is not just said for women but for men too and may be offensive or not. Don’t have the idea of tell to the women back to the kitchen but that they are descent of slave who worked in the kitchen.
When whites lords had children with slaves they (some i guess) send their bastard children for the best works in the farms like the kitchen.
Now come to the USA and try that blatant racism and one will find themselves in hospital. That is a RACIST INSULT! But in Brazil and in much of Latin America its OK to equate being blacks with being a slave and sadly many of these poor blacks will grin when this is said to them.
That Brazil never had racist laws like USA or South Africa, the problem here what keep the mostly darker skinned people in the economic bottom of the society is that Brazil didn’t develop proper since slavery over.
When Brazil grown up darker and lighter people improve life equal. Brazil is not na simple society with few whites descent of colonial elites yet ruling the country and exploring the 90% dark people. During colonial times half.
They say that Brazil didn't need these laws as the USA and South Africa felt that they did because "the negro knew his place". In the USA and South Africa where there were vigorous civil rights movements laws were put in place to restrict black upward mobility. In Brazil where there was less of this there was no need as blacks didn't/couldn't mobilize to improve their lot against rampant societal discrimination.
Now that blacks in Brazil see that blacks in the USA and South Africa have made some progress now we see black empowerment groups emerge. Too bad for the elites but racial segregation is no longer acceptable so damning these advocates as being traitors and Nazis and occasionally even killing them is the way to do with this rising consciousness.
I had a chat with a Brazilian security guard in Rio. He asked me how I was treated and I said well as everyone knows that I am a tourist. I asked him about how many blacks occupy high roles in the public and private sectors or own decent sized businesses. And we are talking about BLACKS, not mixed people who look white and Amerindian. He said few. He went on to say that blacks in Brazil are afraid to talk about racism because they are afraid to anger whites. He described a paternalistic system where there is less segregation than in the USA but less upward mobility. He told me that he can tell who has what job merely by looking at him and claimed that very few dark skinned blacks like him would be managing a store. So thanks to the people who you call traitors there are now small signs that people like him can break through the cracks.
And please don't tell me about how all that prevents black mobility is a poor economy. If that was the case then most of those whites in Sao Paulo would be poor because most of their ancestors arrived from Europe broke.
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