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Old Yesterday, 07:56 AM
 
742 posts, read 390,545 times
Reputation: 278

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
Sounds like the UK in the 70's, let's see if a Maggie Thatcher appears and makes a success out of it.
The problem of argentineans is that they are a bunch of people with socialist and welfare state mindset. They want all services free from the state, living like europeans but forget their GDP PPP is only USD 20.000 not USD50.000. It was similar in Brazil but recently people here started educated theirselves in economy and now most Brazilians are inclined for more capitalism and free market, many reforms are being made.
Argentines in another hand elected Macri a center-right (like democrats) who didn’t the necessaries reforms, and now they will put the bolivarians Kischners back who ****ed the country finances back !!
If Brazil and Argentina would have adopted free market open economies style like Chile, Peru and Colombia, 3 decades ago, having more diverse economy and being industrialized countries, big population, big internal market, fulled of natural resources, both agro-export world powers… both would be developed countries right now.
Thatcher would be killed in Argentina they don't want cutt off their ''social expenses''.
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Old Yesterday, 10:30 AM
 
24,363 posts, read 17,791,892 times
Reputation: 9221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
What? Europe never had a giant rain forest that could serve as the Earth's lung as the Amazon is often called. We already have an increasing drought problem here in Europe.

I am actually in favor of boycotting Brazilian agricultural exports globally until and unless Brazil ceases the destruction of the Amazon, which is way more than a national, Brazilian forest. It is of global importance. Why boycott Venezuela just because of a regime that doesn't harm the world, but not a country's regime that is posting a threat to the future of our entire planet?
Europe has cut down a lot of its forests. Europe used to have lions and leopards but they went extinct. China, India care nothing about environmentalism and would still buy from Brazil. So would the US, with Trump as the President.

Spain itself has many deforested mountains the EU has done nothing about. So if they cannot fix environmental damage in their members states, cannot do anything about Brazil.
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Old Yesterday, 10:32 AM
 
24,363 posts, read 17,791,892 times
Reputation: 9221
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVANGELISTTI View Post
The problem of argentineans is that they are a bunch of people with socialist and welfare state mindset. They want all services free from the state, living like europeans but forget their GDP PPP is only USD 20.000 not USD50.000. It was similar in Brazil but recently people here started educated theirselves in economy and now most Brazilians are inclined for more capitalism and free market, many reforms are being made.
Argentines in another hand elected Macri a center-right (like democrats) who didn’t the necessaries reforms, and now they will put the bolivarians Kischners back who ****ed the country finances back !!
If Brazil and Argentina would have adopted free market open economies style like Chile, Peru and Colombia, 3 decades ago, having more diverse economy and being industrialized countries, big population, big internal market, fulled of natural resources, both agro-export world powers… both would be developed countries right now.
Thatcher would be killed in Argentina they don't want cutt off day their ''social expenses''.
You don’t have a lot of money flowing into Argentina. No major brands.
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Old Yesterday, 10:49 AM
 
Location: NYntarctica
11,456 posts, read 6,488,286 times
Reputation: 4353
Brazil is already in a bad situation, why do you think economic sanctions will save the Amazon? If anything that gives them more incentives to raze the Amazon down for money. And will only alienate Brazil and push them to ally with China
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Old Yesterday, 11:36 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,846 posts, read 19,477,087 times
Reputation: 8623
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Europe has cut down a lot of its forests. Europe used to have lions and leopards but they went extinct. China, India care nothing about environmentalism and would still buy from Brazil. So would the US, with Trump as the President.

Spain itself has many deforested mountains the EU has done nothing about. So if they cannot fix environmental damage in their members states, cannot do anything about Brazil.
Lions and leopards in Europe was a long time ago, when the climate was still very different. Probably the same era when the Sahara was still full of lush vegetation. I.e. many thousands of year ago. 10k or more.

Spain just like Portugal has a drought problem, you can't grow a rain forest no matter how hard you try. Also, Spain is tiny compared to the Amazon.

The EU is very different from Brazil, a much higher population density. Brazil (and its neighbors) could easily leave the Amazon alone, there is more than enough land left for cities, agriculture etc. outside. And that is basically what happened until the new president got elected, who just like Trump seems to think it is cool to destroy the world for a short-term profit, corruption, bribes, nepotism etc. The world needs to wake up and confront those horrible politicians and people.

Also, just because other countries have made mistakes such as deforestation, doesn't mean Brazil has to make them, too. One can also learn from other people's mistakes, not just from one's own. The goal is to prevent a situation that needs fixing in the first place.
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Old Yesterday, 12:20 PM
 
24,363 posts, read 17,791,892 times
Reputation: 9221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Lions and leopards in Europe was a long time ago, when the climate was still very different. Probably the same era when the Sahara was still full of lush vegetation. I.e. many thousands of year ago. 10k or more.

Spain just like Portugal has a drought problem, you can't grow a rain forest no matter how hard you try. Also, Spain is tiny compared to the Amazon.

The EU is very different from Brazil, a much higher population density. Brazil (and its neighbors) could easily leave the Amazon alone, there is more than enough land left for cities, agriculture etc. outside. And that is basically what happened until the new president got elected, who just like Trump seems to think it is cool to destroy the world for a short-term profit, corruption, bribes, nepotism etc. The world needs to wake up and confront those horrible politicians and people.

Also, just because other countries have made mistakes such as deforestation, doesn't mean Brazil has to make them, too. One can also learn from other people's mistakes, not just from one's own. The goal is to prevent a situation that needs fixing in the first place.
Lions and leopards were in Europe during historic times, during the Greek days. You can thank the Romans for helping to kill off large fauna.

More recently, the former dictator Franco killed had lots of bears and wolves killed in Spain and these animals have not recovered their range. And this is just one European country.

Other nations cannot tell Brazil how to pursue development.

When the European Union goes on a large wilderness restoration program, then it can show the world how it´s done and THEN it can talk.

Saying third world nations have to keep huge portions of their countries underdeveloped and outright wilderness, while Europe and the US have no intention to do so smacks of colonialism, racism, and a whole bunch of other things.

The EU itself is not tiny compared to the Amazon and exploitation and destruction of natural resources is a worldwide problem. I see little in the way of wildlife in this part of Spain. So much acreage is devoted to OLIVE farming, and many of these olives or olive products are exploited. Obviously if an EU nation gets to destroy its wild areas for economic development so does a third world nation.

Coming from a German, people would say you sound like a Nazi. Perhaps German should stop all that heavy industry in order to help the planet out. You´re wanting other people to make sacrifices you´re not willing to make.
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Old Yesterday, 12:22 PM
 
24,363 posts, read 17,791,892 times
Reputation: 9221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warszawa View Post
Brazil is already in a bad situation, why do you think economic sanctions will save the Amazon? If anything that gives them more incentives to raze the Amazon down for money. And will only alienate Brazil and push them to ally with China
You´re completely right. China, Russia, and the US would be big buyers. Trump doesn´t care about the Amazon.

Truthfully with all the problems the EU has (Brexit, protests in France, political paralysis in Spain, extreme right in Hungary) it´s not like they care either.
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Old Yesterday, 12:55 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,846 posts, read 19,477,087 times
Reputation: 8623
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Lions and leopards were in Europe during historic times, during the Greek days. You can thank the Romans for helping to kill off large fauna.

More recently, the former dictator Franco killed had lots of bears and wolves killed in Spain and these animals have not recovered their range. And this is just one European country.

Other nations cannot tell Brazil how to pursue development.

When the European Union goes on a large wilderness restoration program, then it can show the world how it´s done and THEN it can talk.

Saying third world nations have to keep huge portions of their countries underdeveloped and outright wilderness, while Europe and the US have no intention to do so smacks of colonialism, racism, and a whole bunch of other things.

The EU itself is not tiny compared to the Amazon and exploitation and destruction of natural resources is a worldwide problem. I see little in the way of wildlife in this part of Spain. So much acreage is devoted to OLIVE farming, and many of these olives or olive products are exploited. Obviously if an EU nation gets to destroy its wild areas for economic development so does a third world nation.

Coming from a German, people would say you sound like a Nazi. Perhaps German should stop all that heavy industry in order to help the planet out. You´re wanting other people to make sacrifices you´re not willing to make.
The forest map of the world shows that Europe is pretty full of trees again these days, except for Spain.



Frankly, when the future of our planet is at stake, I don't care how I come across...

Also, many Brazilians are also against chopping down the Amazon, not to mention the genocide on the indios that goes hand in hand with Amazon deforestation.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-48050717

Last edited by Neuling; Yesterday at 01:06 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 09:51 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,394 posts, read 23,903,969 times
Reputation: 11795
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Lions and leopards were in Europe during historic times, during the Greek days. You can thank the Romans for helping to kill off large fauna.

More recently, the former dictator Franco killed had lots of bears and wolves killed in Spain and these animals have not recovered their range. And this is just one European country.

Other nations cannot tell Brazil how to pursue development.

When the European Union goes on a large wilderness restoration program, then it can show the world how it´s done and THEN it can talk.

Saying third world nations have to keep huge portions of their countries underdeveloped and outright wilderness, while Europe and the US have no intention to do so smacks of colonialism, racism, and a whole bunch of other things.

The EU itself is not tiny compared to the Amazon and exploitation and destruction of natural resources is a worldwide problem. I see little in the way of wildlife in this part of Spain. So much acreage is devoted to OLIVE farming, and many of these olives or olive products are exploited. Obviously if an EU nation gets to destroy its wild areas for economic development so does a third world nation.

Coming from a German, people would say you sound like a Nazi. Perhaps German should stop all that heavy industry in order to help the planet out. You´re wanting other people to make sacrifices you´re not willing to make.
Everyone should be working on preserving and expanding forest cover and other biomes in a bid to stave off much larger disasters. It’s actually the less wealthy countries who have more at stake because they will generally have less ability to stave off the worst parts of it.

Should the EU have a large wilderness program among other initiatives? Yes. The EU does have various initiatives to preserve and expand its wilderness areas. Should it be greatly expanded? Sure.
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Old Today, 02:53 AM
 
24,363 posts, read 17,791,892 times
Reputation: 9221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
The forest map of the world shows that Europe is pretty full of trees again these days, except for Spain.



Frankly, when the future of our planet is at stake, I don't care how I come across...

Also, many Brazilians are also against chopping down the Amazon, not to mention the genocide on the indios that goes hand in hand with Amazon deforestation.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-48050717
And many Brazilians want economic development. But really who cares what you want? You´ve no means of stopping them from doing anything, and the US would not allow outside interference in what it considers its backyard. The Monroe doctrine.
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