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Old Yesterday, 02:54 AM
 
24,381 posts, read 17,797,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Everyone should be working on preserving and expanding forest cover and other biomes in a bid to stave off much larger disasters. It’s actually the less wealthy countries who have more at stake because they will generally have less ability to stave off the worst parts of it.

Should the EU have a large wilderness program among other initiatives? Yes. The EU does have various initiatives to preserve and expand its wilderness areas. Should it be greatly expanded? Sure.
The EU is not greatly expanding it´s wilderness areas in the Mediterranean, and I doubt it is doing so in other parts of Europe. There´d be substantial political opposition, as it runs contrary to certain economic interests.
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Old Yesterday, 06:21 AM
 
Location: In the heights
22,398 posts, read 23,910,306 times
Reputation: 11800
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
The EU is not greatly expanding it´s wilderness areas in the Mediterranean, and I doubt it is doing so in other parts of Europe. There´d be substantial political opposition, as it runs contrary to certain economic interests.
Okay. Marine areas were the fastest growing areas being put under protection over the last decade under the Natura 2000 program. Also, the general thrust of what you’re saying, that Europe as a whole will not countenance working against certain economic interests in order to do anything ecologically necessary is silly. What do you think the shifting towards electric vehicles does for Europe? They are already a major player in the automobile industry with industrial combustion engines and the changeover to EVs potentially leaves a lot of European car companies in the dust as well as opens them up to substantial competition from upstarts from all over.

Regardless, all of the above is besides the main point that all countries should be doing more on a policy level and that it will be the poorest segments of the population with the least means and resources to draw upon who will face the worst consequences. Trying to check someone on their privilege isn’t going to be so gratifying when **** really hits the fan.
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Old Yesterday, 06:23 AM
 
Location: In the heights
22,398 posts, read 23,910,306 times
Reputation: 11800
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
And many Brazilians want economic development. But really who cares what you want? You´ve no means of stopping them from doing anything, and the US would not allow outside interference in what it considers its backyard. The Monroe doctrine.
He should vote in his country for candidates who might work towards applying economic sanctions or trading restrictions against governments which engage in such environmental degradation. Hit them on the trade side, in their bank accounts.
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Old Yesterday, 06:50 AM
 
742 posts, read 390,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
They rely a lot on the export of agricultural products, which can be a problem. For instance soy. Neighboring Brazil cuts down the Amazon rain forest to grow more soy etc. Other countries are also increasing their agricultural output, so prices are likely to decline. And at a time when economics are being politicized, prices can fluctuate a lot.

Argentina still has a rather high HDI, but if their massive economic and financial problems continue for a long time, it will sooner or later lead to a general decline.

There is a Mercosul-EU trade agreement now, but European farmers are already complaining about cheap imports from Latin America. And frankly, I think the agreement should be canceled by the EU as long as Brazil keeps chopping down the Amazon.
Most of Brazilian Agro-industry are located in center-south Brazil, the deforestation happens more for stollen wood, but some soy and beef produced there are illegally as well. Tropical lands are not that good for farming the ''grileiros'' really want the wood.

What your goverment don’t tell you and everybody out of Brazil don’t know is that all desflorestation what happen in Brazil IS ILLEGAL!!
It have never were a goverment policy, if were, no trees would exist there anymore. How in Europe and north America where you cutted down most of yours.

You can’t controll people entring illegally in your small countries, so is very superb to say that you would control deforestation better than us!! Amazonia is the size of 5 France It is impossible to patrol the entire area, of course that in recent years with satellites and jet fighters the balance between deforestation and reforestation has been close ZERO.

INPE was still with workers from PT government because that they disclosed information that with right wing Temer and now Bolsonaro the deforestation worse but private satelites doesn't say the same.

With Bolsonaro nothing has changed but the only difference is that he is not polite and diplomatic and speaks what every average Brazilian would like to say to foreign hypocritical environmentalists.


https://www.terra.com.br/noticias/ci...06kcvefbh.html
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Old Yesterday, 07:44 AM
 
742 posts, read 390,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
He should vote in his country for candidates who might work towards applying economic sanctions or trading restrictions against governments which engage in such environmental degradation. Hit them on the trade side, in their bank accounts.
Why don't you from rich countries pay for ORBITAL RADARS and drones for controll WHOLE AMAZONAS (bigger than EU)??? With this we would know what happen there in real time, and send the army to arrest deforesters.


Because the real intention of the big industry lobby is block the Brazilian agro industry of export to China and east Asian countries, opening the Market for USA and Europe.

China is the first buyer of Brazil ahead USA and Argentina for more than two decades.

USA is the biggest producer of soy and beef and his bigger competitor is... Brazil.

Europe agro industry want continue closed for south american competitors.


You have understand most times this enviromental care is only lobby from this big industry, as example everybody out Brazil are manipulate to think that deforestment is legally made, and promoted by the Brazilian state...

No! Brazil fight against deforesters with the resource and technology we have. We as people also want the forest kept up, we know the importance of this for the future generations.

If Europe and USA would really help us with Amazônia they can because they have more spacial technology for it than us.

https://www.defesaaereanaval.com.br/...to-na-amazonia
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Old Yesterday, 09:00 AM
 
5,450 posts, read 8,130,696 times
Reputation: 4308
By the way, I hope no one uses a Mercator map to prove that Europe is bigger than the Amazon. It's well known that the Mercator map distorts the further away a person goes from the equator, in effect making much of North America and Europe appear much bigger than it really is. Greenland appears humungous when in reality it isn't as big as it appears in that popular map of the world.

If a person looks at a Mercator map then looks at a globe of the world, they will see a major difference in size of much of the rich world. The globe is correct, Mercator maps is only correct at the equator.
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Old Yesterday, 11:04 AM
 
742 posts, read 390,962 times
Reputation: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
By the way, I hope no one uses a Mercator map to prove that Europe is bigger than the Amazon. It's well known that the Mercator map distorts the further away a person goes from the equator, in effect making much of North America and Europe appear much bigger than it really is. Greenland appears humungous when in reality it isn't as big as it appears in that popular map of the world.

If a person looks at a Mercator map then looks at a globe of the world, they will see a major difference in size of much of the rich world. The globe is correct, Mercator maps is only correct at the equator.
Any way i spoke EU (europe union) not whole continent, without European Russia and Ukraine the Amazonas florest (5 500 000 km²) is bigger than EU or even whole Europe without European Russia and Ukraine.
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Old Yesterday, 11:15 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,854 posts, read 19,482,018 times
Reputation: 8625
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
By the way, I hope no one uses a Mercator map to prove that Europe is bigger than the Amazon. It's well known that the Mercator map distorts the further away a person goes from the equator, in effect making much of North America and Europe appear much bigger than it really is. Greenland appears humungous when in reality it isn't as big as it appears in that popular map of the world.

If a person looks at a Mercator map then looks at a globe of the world, they will see a major difference in size of much of the rich world. The globe is correct, Mercator maps is only correct at the equator.
Yes, maps are often distorted, there are interesting ones out there, though:

Population:
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-...cartogram.html

Area (dark blue is real relative size, light blue is the usual, distorted size)
https://2oqz471sa19h3vbwa53m33yj-wpe...s-truesize.png
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Old Yesterday, 11:24 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,854 posts, read 19,482,018 times
Reputation: 8625
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVANGELISTTI View Post
Most of Brazilian Agro-industry are located in center-south Brazil, the deforestation happens more for stollen wood, but some soy and beef produced there are illegally as well. Tropical lands are not that good for farming the ''grileiros'' really want the wood.

What your goverment don’t tell you and everybody out of Brazil don’t know is that all desflorestation what happen in Brazil IS ILLEGAL!!
It have never were a goverment policy, if were, no trees would exist there anymore. How in Europe and north America where you cutted down most of yours.

You can’t controll people entring illegally in your small countries, so is very superb to say that you would control deforestation better than us!! Amazonia is the size of 5 France It is impossible to patrol the entire area, of course that in recent years with satellites and jet fighters the balance between deforestation and reforestation has been close ZERO.

INPE was still with workers from PT government because that they disclosed information that with right wing Temer and now Bolsonaro the deforestation worse but private satelites doesn't say the same.

With Bolsonaro nothing has changed but the only difference is that he is not polite and diplomatic and speaks what every average Brazilian would like to say to foreign hypocritical environmentalists.


https://www.terra.com.br/noticias/ci...06kcvefbh.html

The satellite data is out there already:
https://www.livescience.com/66120-am...bolsonaro.html
https://qz.com/1685037/brazils-bolso...om-satellites/

Germany is starting to act:
https://news.mongabay.com/2019/08/ge...ing-to-brazil/
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Old Yesterday, 12:18 PM
 
742 posts, read 390,962 times
Reputation: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
ORBITAL RADARS for checking in real time what is happing including when have clouds, not just satellite that take pics.

You Germans an old industrialazed country who poluted a lot the world think with 35 millions dollar the problem is solved there? Brazil expend billions dollars there. How Bolsonaro said we don't need this money.

If you want opine in Amazonas put the necessary money there for ORBITAL RADARS, drones and patroll all the área bigger than EU.
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