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Old 08-15-2019, 01:01 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Except Brazil will be getting billions for mining and timber in the Amazon. So Germany changes nothing there.

But Germany cannot even do anything about environmental destruction here in Europe.
Brazil? Certainly not the people of Brazil, but only a tiny elite of corrupt industrialists, the same companies that hire paramilitary thugs to kill indios and steal their land.
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Old 08-16-2019, 01:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
That's not true. Most of southern Spain is simply dry, unused land. Almeria, where most of the greenhouses are located, is just a tiny part of Spain, although the ocean of plastic covers looks impressive (in a negative way), of course. The very fact that they use green houses in southern Spain is due to the fact that it is by nature very dry land, not made for agriculture or forests.
Add to the diminishing groundwater climate change and the future for southern Spain looks gloomy...

https://www.biu.com/climate-change-t...n-desert-2100/
Southern Spain has lots of olive farms in Málaga and lots of citrus farms. I look at them every day because it’s where I now live. Some mountains still have pine forests and their are stands of eucalyptus forests. But there are huge stands out outdoor farms.

And climate change is not the issue. Summers here are hot and dry. Winters are very rainy. The mediterranean been like this fir thousands of years and this normal.
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Old 08-16-2019, 01:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Brazil? Certainly not the people of Brazil, but only a tiny elite of corrupt industrialists, the same companies that hire paramilitary thugs to kill indios and steal their land.
Indios are not even a thing in Brazil anymore. Been watching too much National Geographic. The bottom line is cutting of 35 million in funds does nothing to save the Amazon. I
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Old 08-16-2019, 05:08 AM
 
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/de...ood-and-drink/

1/3 of all land in Andalucía is planted with olive trees. One third. This is the obviously not greenhouse production. Andalucía in 2015 had olive production 2 billion. That’s why the land is not reforested, agriculture exports are a huge part of Andalucía and Spain’s economy.
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Old 08-16-2019, 05:12 AM
 
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The world bank reports 52.1 percent of the land in Spain as farmland.

https://tradingeconomics.com/spain/a...a-wb-data.html

Portugal has 40 percent of its land used for farmland.

https://tradingeconomics.com/portuga...a-wb-data.html
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Old 08-16-2019, 05:16 AM
 
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Spain is number one in Olive and Olive oil production.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...countries.html

Oh Spain is number two in tourism, ahead if the US. That’s more important to them than forest restoration.

https://www.thelocal.es/20190705/spa...s-summer-again
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:21 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,903 posts, read 19,518,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Southern Spain has lots of olive farms in Málaga and lots of citrus farms. I look at them every day because it’s where I now live. Some mountains still have pine forests and their are stands of eucalyptus forests. But there are huge stands out outdoor farms.

And climate change is not the issue. Summers here are hot and dry. Winters are very rainy. The mediterranean been like this fir thousands of years and this normal.
Winters in southern Spain are not very rainy at all, the annual precipitation in much of Spain is only 300 to 500 mm per year, which is little:
https://www.winestats.info/wordpress...l-Rainfall.gif

That kind of precipitation doesn't allow for lush vegetation. Pines are not valuable regarding the climate because they don't have big leaves, but instead needles.
Compare that to Germany's precipitation:
https://www.stadtentwicklung.berlin....b/ea408e01.gif
The major woods are in areas with 1000 to 2000 mm of precipitation per year. And of course temperatures and radiation are much lower than in Spain. There trees with big leaves thrive.




Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Indios are not even a thing in Brazil anymore. Been watching too much National Geographic. The bottom line is cutting of 35 million in funds does nothing to save the Amazon. I
Indios are very much an issue in Brazil, you don't know much about Brazil, that is obvious.



Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/de...ood-and-drink/

1/3 of all land in Andalucía is planted with olive trees. One third. This is the obviously not greenhouse production. Andalucía in 2015 had olive production 2 billion. That’s why the land is not reforested, agriculture exports are a huge part of Andalucía and Spain’s economy.
Olive trees are a natural choice for very dry climates, just like cork trees. Both need very little water and are native to Iberia, but can not play the role that a rain forest plays. Palm trees and eucalyptus are alien species in Iberia, the latter is a regular menace. Eucalyptus was imported decades ago because of the paper industry, back then nobody thought of the consequences of that water-devouring, wildfire-promoting horror plant.



Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
The world bank reports 52.1 percent of the land in Spain as farmland.

https://tradingeconomics.com/spain/a...a-wb-data.html

Portugal has 40 percent of its land used for farmland.

https://tradingeconomics.com/portuga...a-wb-data.html
So? The tendency is clearly downward. And again, olive trees are agriculture yes, but natural, sustainable agriculture, not something that replaced forests.



Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Spain is number one in Olive and Olive oil production.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...countries.html

Oh Spain is number two in tourism, ahead if the US. That’s more important to them than forest restoration.

https://www.thelocal.es/20190705/spa...s-summer-again
Again, reforestation with what?! The climate in much of Spain (and the southern half of Portugal) does not allow for forests like in Germany or Britain. Hasn't for a very long time and things will get even worse thanks to climate change.
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:52 AM
 
24,408 posts, read 17,844,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Winters in southern Spain are not very rainy at all, the annual precipitation in much of Spain is only 300 to 500 mm per year, which is little:
https://www.winestats.info/wordpress...l-Rainfall.gif

That kind of precipitation doesn't allow for lush vegetation. Pines are not valuable regarding the climate because they don't have big leaves, but instead needles.
Compare that to Germany's precipitation:
https://www.stadtentwicklung.berlin....b/ea408e01.gif
The major woods are in areas with 1000 to 2000 mm of precipitation per year. And of course temperatures and radiation are much lower than in Spain. There trees with big leaves thrive.






Indios are very much an issue in Brazil, you don't know much about Brazil, that is obvious.





Olive trees are a natural choice for very dry climates, just like cork trees. Both need very little water and are native to Iberia, but can not play the role that a rain forest plays. Palm trees and eucalyptus are alien species in Iberia, the latter is a regular menace. Eucalyptus was imported decades ago because of the paper industry, back then nobody thought of the consequences of that water-devouring, wildfire-promoting horror plant.





So? The tendency is clearly downward. And again, olive trees are agriculture yes, but natural, sustainable agriculture, not something that replaced forests.





Again, reforestation with what?! The climate in much of Spain (and the southern half of Portugal) does not allow for forests like in Germany or Britain. Hasn't for a very long time and things will get even worse thanks to climate change.
Reforestation with the native trees which covered the area before large scale agriculture. They still exists on mountains too steep for agriculture.

https://blog.fuertehoteles.com/en/to...utumn-forests/

But Spain has no interest in woodland restoration as it would get in the way of making money.
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Old 08-16-2019, 12:26 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,903 posts, read 19,518,112 times
Reputation: 8663
Yes, in the mountains, because the temperature is lower and the precipitation is higher there.
Same in Germany, one can literally see where the mountains and big forests are by looking at the precipitation or temperature maps.
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Old 08-16-2019, 12:34 PM
 
24,408 posts, read 17,844,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Yes, in the mountains, because the temperature is lower and the precipitation is higher there.
Same in Germany, one can literally see where the mountains and big forests are by looking at the precipitation or temperature maps.
For obvious reasons it’s hard to farm steep slopes.

I can tell you coastal marshes here made way for fabulous apartments and they farm right up to the river or creeks edge. There were wetlands. Sadly just no attempt to preserve them.
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