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Old 06-21-2018, 01:04 PM
 
Location: East Helena, MT
839 posts, read 589,438 times
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To answer the OP's question, yes most of the men sneaking across the border are low life scum. The women are more of a mixed bag, and to be honest, I wouldn't mind accepting young women into the U.S., even if they have a low education. Most women do not turn to crime. Most also wouldn't have a hard time finding a spouse in the U.S. if they are here legally.


My father worked as a recruiter for a major corporate farm. He spent months traveling all over Mexico, Central, South America, and the Caribbean. His job was to sign up farm labor, get the paperwork processed so that they could LEGALLY enter the U.S. for work. They would work about 6 months, and be sent back home. The farm paid ALL travel expenses there and back. Some would harvest sugar cane, some celery, some drive cattle, etc.


My father was always amazed at the number of young men that would walk away after they were told that their earnings would be reported back to their home country, and they would have to pay taxes on the income. They would try to barter their way around it. Some didn't have a birth certificate, or any ID at all from their HOME country. Others had warrants out for their arrest. My father had to be very selective on who they brought over. Remember, this is a fantastic deal for the workers. Most would earn 4 years of wages in 6 months. These guest worker programs still exist. So if someone wants to get to the U.S. legally, they have a chance. If you are here legally, there isn't any prohibition on finding a spouse in the U.S., getting married, and being sponsored by your spouse. This however is off the table once you enter illegally.


My wife is from the Dominican Republic, so I have personal experience both ways.

 
Old 06-21-2018, 02:07 PM
 
Location: East of the Mississippi and South of Bluegrass
4,455 posts, read 3,754,840 times
Reputation: 9602
Quote:
Originally Posted by klmrocks View Post

Those who have more complain those who have less have less because they are not driven.

When people have less try to get more they are scolded for breaking rules and laws created in most cases by those who have more to protect their interests and assests.

The truth is if you are starting with a huge huge disadvantage in order to move up you HAVE to bend or break the rules on some level because the rules are not favouring your success.

Those you bend rules to their advance or find ways to work around the rules to their favour are usually the ones they get to move forward.

Smart driven people try to find ways around the rules when it is there only way to succeed.

When I see someone who literally risks their lives to get somewhere because deep inside the they know they want a chance at something better..... I respect that!

To all ignorant forgetful people across the Americas especially us who live in the most North 2 countries dont forget that many of our ancestors risk their lives trying to get here too and were also running here in desperation fleeing wars, persecution and starvation so who are we really to judge?

If there is a wall in front of you that seems like it is making your progress unlikely ... you need to find a way around it even if it means breaking the rules.
In days gone by Canada had a secure border wall...America. I would say...essentially protecting the interests and assets of Canada.

But as you have said, certainly anyone who meets a wall they will certainly find a way around regardless of the methods which are used.

Not so much anymore though according to various news sources it may not continue to be a comfort for our neighbors in Canada. Apparently these ambitious and noble people are not only successful in making their way through South America, Mexico AND America but working their way around rules to their favor, breaking laws, rules and regulations in order to secure a bright future in Canada.

I hope Canada doesn't "scold" them as per your post. I'm not sure America actually "scolds" them but rather works diligently to repatriate them back to their home countries...at the expense of the American taxpayer of course.

The Cable

Illegal Immigrants May Not Find Warm Welcome in Canada
A new poll shows nearly half of Canadians want border-crossers sent back to the United States.

Illegal Immigrants May Not Find Warm Welcome in Canada Foreign Policy

Illegals fleeing from Trump to Canada not faring too well there either

https://hotair.com/archives/2017/06/...g-well-either/

Overall I would have to say you grew up in different circumstances from most modern day emigrants who are actually fleeing their corrupt governments, oppression, poverty, gang warfare, and a host of other social and political ills.

If I recall from one of your recent posts you are from Trinidad originally and your family legally emigrated to Canada for better opportunities.

However you did breathe the concept of "life is a party" and as a teenager you only worked to buy Chanel lip gloss, nail polish and more fun stuff.

I would say a far different world than our modern day emigrants come from.
 
Old 06-21-2018, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,780,600 times
Reputation: 4619
Default .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muthal_Ganesan View Post
I think all those people also get attacked. Usually get stereotyped as drains on the welfare system etc...
I am going to admit I do not get why people have large families if they don't have a lot of money and time to care for them, but I also do understand not everyone sees the world and the purpose of life the same way I do.


In some cultures like my husband's the attitude is "god always provides what you need".
In my own personal case I actually was broke and unemployed when I was pregnant with the first and only child and I don't know if it was god, luck or just determination on my part but soon after I gave birth to my child by phone was ringing off the hook with job offers.


Who knows what the true better way really is.


Those who have no children risk having no one to help them when they are older or being at higher risk for social isolation as they age.


Those who only have a few risk higher odds that the one or 2 they have with grow up to be useless or parasites until their dying days lol.


Those who have too many will likely have a really hard life until their kids are able to stand on their own, but they also have increased odds that their kids will be able to help them out when they are older and will have more emotional support throughout life.


Despite my previous remarks .... this decision to have or not have a large family is not exactly black and white.


Even if you have money when you have children there is not certainty you will keep it and even if you have children when you have very little there is no 100% certainty you will always be extremely poor. Also especially for women you actually only have a certain window of time to have children so some times it can feel like now or never.
 
Old 06-21-2018, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,780,600 times
Reputation: 4619
Default .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsvibe View Post
To answer the OP's question, yes most of the men sneaking across the border are low life scum. The women are more of a mixed bag, and to be honest, I wouldn't mind accepting young women into the U.S., even if they have a low education. Most women do not turn to crime. Most also wouldn't have a hard time finding a spouse in the U.S. if they are here legally.


My father worked as a recruiter for a major corporate farm. He spent months traveling all over Mexico, Central, South America, and the Caribbean. His job was to sign up farm labor, get the paperwork processed so that they could LEGALLY enter the U.S. for work. They would work about 6 months, and be sent back home. The farm paid ALL travel expenses there and back. Some would harvest sugar cane, some celery, some drive cattle, etc.


My father was always amazed at the number of young men that would walk away after they were told that their earnings would be reported back to their home country, and they would have to pay taxes on the income. They would try to barter their way around it. Some didn't have a birth certificate, or any ID at all from their HOME country. Others had warrants out for their arrest. My father had to be very selective on who they brought over. Remember, this is a fantastic deal for the workers. Most would earn 4 years of wages in 6 months. These guest worker programs still exist. So if someone wants to get to the U.S. legally, they have a chance. If you are here legally, there isn't any prohibition on finding a spouse in the U.S., getting married, and being sponsored by your spouse. This however is off the table once you enter illegally.


My wife is from the Dominican Republic, so I have personal experience both ways.
I have heard of these programs. I think we have them in Ontario too, but I live no where near any place where there is farming so I don't personally know.


I have also heard very shady things about some farms/ organizations that use migrant workers so I am skeptical. Don't forget when you report income in certain places is can often but a target on your back. Many places have police and government officials that are very corrupt and steal from their own people.


My husband's comes from a family that ran larger/ industrial farms in his is own country and none of his 13 kids wanted anything to do with the business once they were adults and once he died sold it as fast a possible because is was extremely hard work. Working someone else's land might put food on your table, but will never help you actually gain wealth.
 
Old 06-21-2018, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,780,600 times
Reputation: 4619
Default .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by whogoesthere View Post
Would have helped if American business interests and the American gov't hadn't worked with reactionaries in Honduras to help overthrow their democratically elected leader a couple of years ago....seeing as how most of the new immigrants being talked about in this particular case seem to be coming from that particular country...nothing happens in a vacuum...USA should not have to let everyone into the country...this fact cannot be denied...but there is also no need to overthrow a democratically elected leader just because he wanted to raise the second lowest minimum wage in the Western hemisphere (coincidentally, the democratically elected leader of the lowest minimum wage country in the Western hemisphere, Aristide of Haiti, was also overthrown when he tried to raise that minimum wage)
Interesting point regarding American involved in creating problems in Central or South America.


I have the same sentiment when Europeans complain about illegal immigrants. Their wealth was built on stealing resources from there places and exploiting people from the places most of these people entering illegally are coming from, yet they want to play the victim card when it becomes a challenge for them.
 
Old 06-21-2018, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,780,600 times
Reputation: 4619
Default ......

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeIsWhere... View Post
In days gone by Canada had a secure border wall...America. I would say...essentially protecting the interests and assets of Canada.

But as you have said, certainly anyone who meets a wall they will certainly find a way around regardless of the methods which are used.

Not so much anymore though according to various news sources it may not continue to be a comfort for our neighbors in Canada. Apparently these ambitious and noble people are not only successful in making their way through South America, Mexico AND America but working their way around rules to their favor, breaking laws, rules and regulations in order to secure a bright future in Canada.

I hope Canada doesn't "scold" them as per your post. I'm not sure America actually "scolds" them but rather works diligently to repatriate them back to their home countries...at the expense of the American taxpayer of course.

The Cable

Illegal Immigrants May Not Find Warm Welcome in Canada
A new poll shows nearly half of Canadians want border-crossers sent back to the United States.

Illegal Immigrants May Not Find Warm Welcome in Canada – Foreign Policy

Illegals fleeing from Trump to Canada not faring too well there either

https://hotair.com/archives/2017/06/...g-well-either/

Overall I would have to say you grew up in different circumstances from most modern day emigrants who are actually fleeing their corrupt governments, oppression, poverty, gang warfare, and a host of other social and political ills.

If I recall from one of your recent posts you are from Trinidad originally and your family legally emigrated to Canada for better opportunities.

However you did breathe the concept of "life is a party" and as a teenager you only worked to buy Chanel lip gloss, nail polish and more fun stuff.

I would say a far different world than our modern day emigrants come from.

If someone can all that way from South or Central America ... all the way to Canada to try to get status ... for god sakes 1/2 or more of our country is empty I think they at least deserve an interview before turning them away. There must be a more creative way to deal with this situation.


Personally I think especially in the case of Canada we should strike a deal. Ex you want to live in Canada here is the contract. You got to live and work in this certain part of Canada for so many years. Once that term is over you can apply for citizenship and go where you want in the country.


I don't see why we are not viewing these people that actually "want" to be here are potential resources.


The USA has a higher population. Canada has a lot of land that no one wants to occupy. When some are just seeing challenges ... someone needs to start thinking about opportunities. People are resources in the making!


Actually my parents immigrated to the USA first. Stayed for a while and then decided to try Canada out and applied for papers for Canada. So I was born here. I think my parents lost their Green Cards because I don't think you can have status in 3 places.


I agree out circumstances were very different.


There was no "war"..... crime and corruption... but nothing to really chase then off the island.


Regarding wall....


I always assumed there was something there and having something there makes sense technically, just as I have fence around my property so I can control who comes in and out, but the fact that Trump said he was going to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it makes is arrogant and stupid. If you want to build or a expand a wall along your boarder do and shut up. It is your country.
 
Old 06-21-2018, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
9,876 posts, read 6,615,036 times
Reputation: 6273
Quote:
Originally Posted by klmrocks View Post
Interesting point regarding American involved in creating problems in Central or South America.


I have the same sentiment when Europeans complain about illegal immigrants. Their wealth was built on stealing resources from there places and exploiting people from the places most of these people entering illegally are coming from, yet they want to play the victim card when it becomes a challenge for them.
Exactly.

The answer to someone who supports an aggressive, even jingoistic US foreign policy yet decries the entry of people who are fleeing those countries who have been adversely affected by US policies -

"We're over here because you're over there."
 
Old 06-21-2018, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
5,830 posts, read 9,478,151 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeIsWhere... View Post
If America had a proper vetting process in place, such as your country, Canada, we would only be considering those with skills we needed and money to support themselves when they arrive.
You just described exactly how it is right now. Mexicans and Central American immigrants work in McDonalds, in construction and landscaping, in agriculture in the Central Valley. They work in McDonald's because regular Americans are off getting educated and pursuing other careers. They work in construction and landscaping because they are good at at (dare I say better than Americans). They work agriculture because Americans don't want to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whogoesthere View Post
.but there is also no need to overthrow a democratically elected leader
The U.S. has been meddling in all of Central and South America for decades. It's not right for them to do it, but they do, it's a fact of life. But it's also a fact that this has nothing to do with the current topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsvibe View Post
To answer the OP's question, yes most of the men sneaking across the border are low life scum. The women are more of a mixed bag, ...Most women do not turn to crime.
When something like this is written, it's hard for me to tell whether it's an internet troll, or whether it's someone expressing their real opinion. The former case is pathetic. But the latter case requires re-educating the person who really feels that way, it's either because they have been brought up being taught that way and have never stopped to ask themselves whether it is true, or they have had negative experiences in life from a few bad apples and have developed a stereotype and generalized this to a whole group of people.

If you were born and raised in a third world country with no job opportunities, chances are likely that you would consider immigrating (legally or illegally) to a country with a stronger economy.

Quote:
My father worked as a recruiter for a major corporate farm. He spent months traveling all over Mexico, Central, South America, and the Caribbean
It's a shame he didn't take you with him and put you in school for a length of time in one of those countries to open up your eyes to how things are. There's no experience like first-hand experience. Opinions and judgements you make about things that you have not personally experienced first-hand will almost always been inaccurate.

Quote:
My father was always amazed at the number of young men that would walk away after they were told that their earnings would be reported back to their home country,
Total nonsense. I call you out on this lie. Nobody in central America would ever pass up such an opportunity. You are making it up.
Quote:
My wife is from the Dominican Republic
I doubt it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by klmrocks View Post
I am going to admit I do not get why people have large families if they don't have a lot of money and time to care for them,
This is due to Catholicism, which encourages large families and frowns on abortion.
Quote:
n my own personal case I actually was broke and unemployed when I was pregnant with the first and only child
And if you were living in a third world country with no job prospects and no means of support, I guarantee you would be looking to immigrate (legally or illegally) to somewhere else.
 
Old 06-21-2018, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,780,600 times
Reputation: 4619
Default .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
You just described exactly how it is right now. Mexicans and Central American immigrants work in McDonalds, in construction and landscaping, in agriculture in the Central Valley. They work in McDonald's because regular Americans are off getting educated and pursuing other careers. They work in construction and landscaping because they are good at at (dare I say better than Americans). They work agriculture because Americans don't want to do it.


The U.S. has been meddling in all of Central and South America for decades. It's not right for them to do it, but they do, it's a fact of life. But it's also a fact that this has nothing to do with the current topic.

When something like this is written, it's hard for me to tell whether it's an internet troll, or whether it's someone expressing their real opinion. The former case is pathetic. But the latter case requires re-educating the person who really feels that way, it's either because they have been brought up being taught that way and have never stopped to ask themselves whether it is true, or they have had negative experiences in life from a few bad apples and have developed a stereotype and generalized this to a whole group of people.

If you were born and raised in a third world country with no job opportunities, chances are likely that you would consider immigrating (legally or illegally) to a country with a stronger economy.


It's a shame he didn't take you with him and put you in school for a length of time in one of those countries to open up your eyes to how things are. There's no experience like first-hand experience. Opinions and judgements you make about things that you have not personally experienced first-hand will almost always been inaccurate.


Total nonsense. I call you out on this lie. Nobody in central America would ever pass up such an opportunity. You are making it up.

I doubt it.

This is due to Catholicism, which encourages large families and frowns on abortion.

And if you were living in a third world country with no job prospects and no means of support, I guarantee you would be looking to immigrate (legally or illegally) to somewhere else.
I might add I was broke pregnant married and just completed the equivalent of grad school. Also had parents who were helping us we were never really in dangerous. Those factors help explain the outcome a bit better.

If you have family support for child care, sharing accommodations and other basic things you can make it. So those people who know other people is the USA have a shot.
 
Old 06-22-2018, 03:46 AM
 
89 posts, read 44,811 times
Reputation: 123
Here in Colombia, we have jobs that get lost because NO ONE wants to do them.

An example is picking coffee, yes its physical but it pays well, its a decent respectable job, and our coffee farms are DESPERATE for workers. BUT NO ONE WILL DO IT.... Colombians do not do it!

Recently there has been a plan to bring Venezuelans and some Central Americans to go do those jobs, and people complain that how can u bring these people into the country considerin many colombians are unemployed.... yet you ask colombians and they dont do these jobs.

A lot of colombians would benefit from doing thost jobs, but they are lazy, they just wanna sit on their asses, watch football, and get a motorcycle or car to drive around with their equally lazy friends. Then they complain colombia sucks, and they cant find a good job, so they dream of going to Europe or Miami, or somewhere DEVELOPED. Yet findings jobs can be possible, granted you will not make dollars, but you WILL make enough to actually live normal.
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