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Old 07-08-2018, 04:14 PM
Status: "Thinking of the future..." (set 5 days ago)
 
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Has the remains of sacrificed victims, to the degree as they were found in Mexico City, have ever been found elsewhere in the world?

In the article cited in the OP it very clearly says:

Quote:
The scale of the rack and tower suggests they held thousands of skulls, testimony to an industry of human sacrifice unlike any other in the world.
Feeding the gods: Hundreds of skulls reveal massive scale of human sacrifice in Aztec capital

I find it comical that whenever a discussion of the mass killings done among the natives of Mesoamerica, there's always someone that attempts to downplay them by mentioning similar killings in other societies, even societies that were long extinguished by the time the Spaniards arrived in the New World (such as ancient primitive European societies.) These are probably the same people that 'forget' to mention other societies when the topic of discussion is the Spanish conquest or European colonization in the New World. In fact, I think these are the same type of people that for centuries simply denied that the natives of Mesoamerica engaged in such practices and simply assumed it was one big lie from the Spaniards. Now that denial is not possible, they take out the 'everybody else did it too' card.

Find a society that was as advanced as the Aztecs or the Mayans were in the 1500's and still, at that stage of development, engaged in such large scale sacrificial killings among themselves. There have never been any, at least that's what the writers of the article and the scientist studying this phenomenon are saying. The Aztecs sacrificed people to a degree simply unknown in all of human history.

We hear of genital mutilation taking place in some tribes in Africa and people are saddened by that to the point that no one really says 'that's their culture, we must respect it.' Instead, what every person that feels disgust and sadness towards the victims of genital mutilation, often young pre-pubescent girls that are subjected to that practice without anesthesia by tribesmen, want that practice to be intervened by modern societies and downright eradicated.

Something tells me that many of the people that react like that towards genital mutilation in Africa are the same people trying to downplay the effect these mass human sacrifices that took place in Mexico had on the arriving Spaniards. Knock knock, those Spaniards reacted in the same way modern Western people react to genital mutilation in Africa. And the worst part for those Spaniards is that they actually witnessed in person many of sacrificial events, while in modern society all we have to do is read about genital mutilation in the newspapers, magazine, online, or watch it on TV to feel a strong aversion to it. Imagine having to see it in person. Plus, genital mutilation takes place with one or two girls at a time, not hundreds of young men being sacrificed in the worse manner in one day.

Humans from more advanced societies tend to react the same to more primitive barbarous practices. This is no different.

In the Caribbean the Taino people were a very peaceful society, but even they had some odd practices that wasn't seen with too much enthusiasm on the part of the Spaniards and, understandably, the Spaniards believed those practices needed to end. One example of a practice that shocked the Spaniards was that whenever a cacique (leader of a Taino tribe) died, all of his wives (they practiced poligamy) had to be buried alive in the same tomb of their leader. Are we going to pretend that this practice wasn't going to shock the Spaniards? Imagine you being there and for the first time in your life watching this unfold before your eyes.

Would you react towards that in the same way modern people react to genital mutilation in Africa? Of course you would. Let's not kid ourselves.

Last edited by AntonioR; 07-08-2018 at 04:31 PM..
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Old 07-08-2018, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Canada
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That is why a lot of the surrounding groups hated the Aztecs (like the Tlaxcalas) and were willing to help the Spanish get rid of them.
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Old 07-08-2018, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Fort Collins, USA
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O.P. - Estimates are that the 240,000 Aztecs were killed in the siege of Tenochtitlán: Battle of Tenochtitlan. Are you seriously suggesting that the Aztec civilians slaughtered by the Spanish and their allies were better off being killed in that matter than being the victims of human sacrifice? Yes Aztec society was brutal but so was Spanish society (consider the Spanish Inquisition). Professing outrage about a cultural practice (as horrible as it was) and then responding by slaughtering the inhabitants is not an altruistic action. The Spanish conquistadors were after gold and power, and they didn’t care how many people they had to kill to get it.

Last edited by xeric; 07-08-2018 at 10:12 PM..
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
they take out the 'everybody else did it too' card.
But, everybody else has done and continues to do it. You're saying the scale of what happened in Mexico was unlike anything else, but there's plenty of examples of similar or even larger scale mass killings that have happened.
Quote:
Find a society that was as advanced as the Aztecs or the Mayans were in the 1500's and still, at that stage of development, engaged in such large scale sacrificial killings among themselves.
Nazi Germany.
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:07 PM
 
2,781 posts, read 1,023,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Has the remains of sacrificed victims, to the degree as they were found in Mexico City, have ever been found elsewhere in the world?

In the article cited in the OP it very clearly says:


Feeding the gods: Hundreds of skulls reveal massive scale of human sacrifice in Aztec capital

I find it comical that whenever a discussion of the mass killings done among the natives of Mesoamerica, there's always someone that attempts to downplay them by mentioning similar killings in other societies, even societies that were long extinguished by the time the Spaniards arrived in the New World (such as ancient primitive European societies.) These are probably the same people that 'forget' to mention other societies when the topic of discussion is the Spanish conquest or European colonization in the New World. In fact, I think these are the same type of people that for centuries simply denied that the natives of Mesoamerica engaged in such practices and simply assumed it was one big lie from the Spaniards. Now that denial is not possible, they take out the 'everybody else did it too' card.
I don't think its really an issue of denial, but more one of response. The fact that Aztecs engaged in sacrifice doesn't negate the fact that the Spaniards razed Tenochtitlan to the ground for their own interests.

Quote:
Find a society that was as advanced as the Aztecs or the Mayans were in the 1500's and still, at that stage of development, engaged in such large scale sacrificial killings among themselves. There have never been any, at least that's what the writers of the article and the scientist studying this phenomenon are saying. The Aztecs sacrificed people to a degree simply unknown in all of human history.
The Aztecs did it on a larger scale then the Maya. I don't know of any other civilization that practiced sacrifice to that extent, but then it raises the question of what exactly can be classified as barbarity. Is the Roman sanctioning of gladiator combat and its subsequent brutality, really that much better?

The reason I'm drawing a parallel between the two is because sacrifice was carried out in order to feed the gods in Aztec religion and was viewed as an honor by many. Even priests would often inflict wounds upon themselves in order to offer their blood to deities.

Gladiator combat was also considered an honorary sport by its participants and a ticket to freedom for slaves. Nevertheless, it was a spectator sport that had mass appeal.

I know the Romans predated the Aztecs by over a millennium, but they were even more advanced then the Aztecs at their peak.

Quote:
Something tells me that many of the people that react like that towards genital mutilation in Africa are the same people trying to downplay the effect these mass human sacrifices that took place in Mexico had on the arriving Spaniards. Knock knock, those Spaniards reacted in the same way modern Western people react to genital mutilation in Africa. And the worst part for those Spaniards is that they actually witnessed in person many of sacrificial events, while in modern society all we have to do is read about genital mutilation in the newspapers, magazine, online, or watch it on TV to feel a strong aversion to it. Imagine having to see it in person. Plus, genital mutilation takes place with one or two girls at a time, not hundreds of young men being sacrificed in the worse manner in one day.

Humans from more advanced societies tend to react the same to more primitive barbarous practices. This is no different.
That much is true. Humans from more advanced civilizations will often look down at what they perceive to be tribal practices. However, I don't believe that the Spanish took out the Aztecs out of some goodwill. They did so in order to expand their empire.

Quote:
Would you react towards that in the same way modern people react to genital mutilation in Africa? Of course you would. Let's not kid ourselves.
Absolutely. There is no logical reason to continue these practices in the 21st century.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Absolutely. There is no logical reason to continue these practices in the 21st century.
The human brain hasn't changed in 30,000 years. The same stuff happens in different forms.
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:44 PM
 
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It would've been really awesome seeing an Aztec priest performing a human sacrifice in real life.


And it would've been an honor being sacrificed to K'uk'ulkan.
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Old 07-14-2018, 03:15 PM
AFP
 
6,898 posts, read 4,253,100 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaxkan View Post
It would've been really awesome seeing an Aztec priest performing a human sacrifice in real life.


And it would've been an honor being sacrificed to K'uk'ulkan.
What are you smoking? What a ridiculous post.
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:47 PM
 
Location: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
What are you smoking? What a ridiculous post.
Yeah I hope that was just a joke. The comment was in rather poor taste.

Mesoamericans were advanced in certain things. Farming, building, astronomy etc etc...But their biggest weakness was their religion. For some reason their religions never really advanced and it was their biggest down fall. Ironically it is their biggest downfall today also.
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,794,627 times
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Default ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaxkan View Post
It would've been really awesome seeing an Aztec priest performing a human sacrifice in real life.


And it would've been an honor being sacrificed to K'uk'ulkan.


If you are volutering to be sacrifed .... I will sell tickets to the event.
However otherwise it better be a reenactment or that is pretty twisted.

I thought when I was somewhere in Mexico they actually did a reenactment at some ruin I went too .

It really was not the high light of my trip...... but I am pretty sure it happend.

Xcaret theme park does lots of reenactment stuff too. Not sure if it was mayan or Aztec .... but it was pretty interesting.

Last edited by klmrocks; 07-15-2018 at 02:17 PM..
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