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Old 06-30-2018, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
5,830 posts, read 9,478,151 times
Reputation: 2973

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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigmatico View Post
The US is a high-trust society.
The US is more high-trust than Latin america but less high-trust than some places like Japan. Did you see the video of the post-match world cup game last week where the Japanese people in the stadium had their own garbage bags and were going around of their own volition cleaning up all the beer bottles and trash?

If the OP is working remotely you're probably involved in a computer job which means you depend on a decent internet connection. You should do your homework on this before making your decision to move to Argentina. I've heard from a couple people that internet service, and services in general, are pretty poor these days down there.

another option to consider is somewhere in argentina other than Buenos aires. Someone was telling me that there are beautiful and pristine areas in other parts of the country. But who know what the internet service is like there.
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Old 06-30-2018, 10:15 AM
 
768 posts, read 983,519 times
Reputation: 1112
Quote:
Originally Posted by enigmatico View Post
You're under the impression that having money means the economy won't impact you. It will. They already have constant protests, demonstrations and labor strikes which block major streets, shut down industries and public transport. Civil unrest is only going to intensify. You'll see product shortages. Poverty is going to increase the number of people pestering you for a handout. That's especially fun trying to have lunch at a cafe, where you will have your meal interrupted literally 10 times in an hour by beggars and street merchants. And the staff will do nothing to stop them.

You have to wait in line for EVERYTHING. Supermarkets, retail stores, banks, bill-paying kiosks(forget online bill-pay), etc. ATMs are often 20 people deep and run out of cash before you reach them. The next nearest one is going to be 12 blocks away, with another line.

The rule of law is ostensibly no more than a suggestion, especially traffic laws. Driving in BA is a nightmare, but no worse than the sardine can subway. Motorbikes on the sidewalk, ignorance of red lights and a pedestrian's right of way, etc. All common occurrences. The cops are useless and hopelessly corrupt.

The people are more rude and thoughtless. They will blatantly cut in front of you in line, block sidewalks, not mind their children, etc. Just general rude behavior you don't find nearly as often in the US. That's all commonplace.

You're going to have to learn how to suffer fools gladly. Laziness and incompetence among service people are the norm. You can not even count on a clerk to bag your groceries properly, or weigh something accurately. You have to watch everything they do.

There's loose dogs everywhere, some of them dangerous, and the sidewalks are covered with their droppings. In four years, I never saw anyone pick up after their dog; not once.

The streets are filthy because people(of every age and social class) litter constantly and without shame. Many streets also smell bad because(besides the dogs), public restrooms are virtually non-existent, so public urination is just ignored and tolerated.

Someone mentioned utilities. Extended electricity blackouts occur when the weather gets too hot. Water is out more frequently but usually no more than a couple hours. Did you notice the water tanks on all the rooftops? Yep, that's what those are for.

The US is a high-trust society. Generally speaking, people deal with one another honestly and we have a business culture where "the customer is always right". Not so in Argentina. Good luck getting a refund if you have a problem. Some of the major stores will do that now, but it's not something you can count on.

There are positive things to tell you as well; it isn't all bad. I know I sound negative, but I'm just trying to help you make an informed decision. You are not going to be able to insulate yourself from all of the problems, even if you have the means to live in a nice area and hire domestic help to do everything for you. It's not like the postcards. Living there offers a radically different perspective on the country.
Thank you for your lengthy response. I think a good point to bring up is that youíre comparing life in Argentina to life in the US. Iíve lived in developing countries before (Mexico and Colombia) so I have an idea of the shortcomings. That being said, itís a bit disappointing hearing all the negative things about Argentina. Iíve been to Buenos Aires but donít really remember a lot of the things you wrote like the loose dogs and the filthy streets or the rude behavior. Everyone was generally nice and kept to themselves. Are the problems you listed more of the problems of the poorer areas? I was planning on living in recoleta or Palermo so Iím hoping to not be exposed to those problems.
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Old 06-30-2018, 05:21 PM
 
2,567 posts, read 1,336,012 times
Reputation: 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
My brother found your line of thinking to be a trap. He moved to Panama, never had many assets in the US, faded out of US Social Security and now he is tired of Panama and has no way back.
Same with our friends who retired early to live on a sailboat in The Caribbean. There is no way back.


If you want to live in third world, super low cost of living situations you can find plenty in America. Use your imagination. As long as you are not addicted to 'stuff' there is a way to live your life comfortably.

I kicked around Central America for a few years and saw this quite often. They become kind of rudderless. Part of my reason for coming home was just that.
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Old 06-30-2018, 10:36 PM
 
109 posts, read 42,979 times
Reputation: 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by philopower View Post
Thank you for your lengthy response. I think a good point to bring up is that youíre comparing life in Argentina to life in the US. Iíve lived in developing countries before (Mexico and Colombia) so I have an idea of the shortcomings. That being said, itís a bit disappointing hearing all the negative things about Argentina. Iíve been to Buenos Aires but donít really remember a lot of the things you wrote like the loose dogs and the filthy streets or the rude behavior. Everyone was generally nice and kept to themselves. Are the problems you listed more of the problems of the poorer areas? I was planning on living in recoleta or Palermo so Iím hoping to not be exposed to those problems.
I'm glad you raised that point; it's a very important one. As I mentioned before, I didn't know whether you had lived your entire life in the US or not. I assumed you had. If you've spent significant time living in Mexico and/or Colombia, I think you could do just fine adjusting to the culture of Argentina.

I regret to say, you're not going to be able to avoid most of the issues I've mentioned. The streets in Recoleta and Palermo are going to be cleaner and the people are going to be of a different class, no question, but you can't live only in Recoleta. That's the reality.
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Old 07-22-2018, 06:02 PM
 
146 posts, read 103,763 times
Reputation: 185
Hi philopower,

I hope you have not written off your dreams of pursuing a new life in Buenos Aires or somewhere else in Latin America (Would consider Lima Peru as well, look into it). I have lived a good part of my youth in Buenos Aires (I am not Argentine BTW). Let me share my perspectives.

About Buenos Aires:

Buenos Aires is not called Paris of South America for nothing. https://travelblog.goaheadtours.com/...south-america/. There are some incredibly, incredibly beautiful buildings, parks and monuments throughout the city.

Argentina throughout its history has always had wild swings in its fortunes. Hyperinflation, followed by periods of austerity, recovery and spurts of growth.

Some of its people could be incredibly snobbish (or creŪdos as someone in this thread mentioned), but most are very warm and many are very eloquent . I can assure you of that. Some racists, for sure, just like there are in any other society on the planet.

Areas served by the D line are the best neighborhoods (and very densely populated), which runs along Avenida Santa Fe. We lived in a neighborhood called Barrio Norte which is straddles between Recolate & Palermo, and would take the D line to go everywhere in the city. Neighborhoods served by the B line are solidly middle class. Line A runs along the Avenida Ridavadia, which more or less splits the city into the North and South halves. The northern half is where ideally you would want to live. Good guide of the neighborhoods: https://matadornetwork.com/network/q...-buenos-aires/ Yes, Bs.As. relatively safe if you stick to the good areas.

Argentina, in a way is similar to the US in the following, you have big cities that exert a disproportionate power over the entire country. Buenos Aires City is like NY/DC/LA folded into one megalopolis, Rosario/Cordoba/Santa Fe city is like Chicago, Mendoza is like Denver. The rest of the country and the interior provinces is like rural America/flyover states, with economies based on agriculture/natural resources extraction, and relatively lacking in upward mobile opportunities for young people.

About the strikes and street demonstrations, hell I myself participated in one of those events in my Bs. As. colegio (equivalent of high school) years there, so not a big deal.

About accumulating wealth in general:

Does your company offer you a 401k retirement contribution plan? if so, continue to contribute the maximum if you could. As many other people alluded to, you want to maintain your status as an 'US person' if you choose to start a new life overseas.

You will have the best chance of accumulating significant wealth if you stay in the US, and take advantage of the opportunities this country has to offer. One significant advance of living in the US vs other countries is access to relatively cheap loan. And leverage one of the keys to accumulating wealth (the other being access to opportunities). Here you can get a house with a downpayment of as little as 3.5%, in Argentina it is at least 30% and not being an Argentine citizen could be a problem (although not impossible if you can show your ability to pay through your current job). Here is a link to Banco Hipotecacio, the biggest bank in Argentina that offer mortgage loans, with its underlying requirements https://www.hipotecario.com.ar/default.asp?id=255. Realistically, most real estate transactions in Argentina are done in cash and in USD for as long as I remember.

On the other hand, there is growing startup scene in Bs. As., with access and connections to the major private equity players in the world. So if you are ambitious, you could make it happen, even in Bs. As. Could you become the David Velez of Argentina? Velez, a Colombian, co-found the most disruptive fintech company in Brazil.

Can you change the title of your thread? to somewhere like 'pursuing in new life in Latam/Buenos Aires'?

Good luck in your plan of actions!
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:28 PM
FBF
 
572 posts, read 692,154 times
Reputation: 485
Argentina generally discriminates against darker skin and Indigenous looking Latinos.....so if you meet either of those.....best of luck.
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Old 07-23-2018, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
5,830 posts, read 9,478,151 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechgator View Post
You will have the best chance of accumulating significant wealth if you stay in the US, and take advantage of the opportunities this country has to offer.
Excellent post in general, I'll just make a comment on this particular topic. I have a friend who is of Mexican heritage but born in California. I know him from work because he's a computer guy, like myself. He spent several years working in Mexico, and then subsequently 10 years living and working in Madrid. He told me he enjoyed living there, the quality of life was good, but after doing that for many years he came back to the U.S. to work because he wasn't saving any money.

So there's a big trade-off: quality of life (lifestyle, Latino culture), but lack of ability to save money over the long run.
Quote:
On the other hand, there is growing startup scene in Bs. As., with access and connections to the major private equity players in the world.
Is the startup scene there still in a growing stage? If so, that doesn't say much for it because I remember about 9 or 10 years ago I was offered a job at a startup in Buenos Aires, and things at that time seemed like they were very much in their shaky, beginning stages.

Same thing in Bogota. I know a couple guys through work that are involved in that but it doesn't seem like the scene has gotten off the ground, much.
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Old 07-23-2018, 01:49 PM
 
768 posts, read 983,519 times
Reputation: 1112
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechgator View Post
Hi philopower,

I hope you have not written off your dreams of pursuing a new life in Buenos Aires or somewhere else in Latin America (Would consider Lima Peru as well, look into it). I have lived a good part of my youth in Buenos Aires (I am not Argentine BTW). Let me share my perspectives.

About Buenos Aires:

Buenos Aires is not called Paris of South America for nothing. https://travelblog.goaheadtours.com/...south-america/. There are some incredibly, incredibly beautiful buildings, parks and monuments throughout the city.

Argentina throughout its history has always had wild swings in its fortunes. Hyperinflation, followed by periods of austerity, recovery and spurts of growth.

Some of its people could be incredibly snobbish (or creŪdos as someone in this thread mentioned), but most are very warm and many are very eloquent . I can assure you of that. Some racists, for sure, just like there are in any other society on the planet.

Areas served by the D line are the best neighborhoods (and very densely populated), which runs along Avenida Santa Fe. We lived in a neighborhood called Barrio Norte which is straddles between Recolate & Palermo, and would take the D line to go everywhere in the city. Neighborhoods served by the B line are solidly middle class. Line A runs along the Avenida Ridavadia, which more or less splits the city into the North and South halves. The northern half is where ideally you would want to live. Good guide of the neighborhoods: https://matadornetwork.com/network/q...-buenos-aires/ Yes, Bs.As. relatively safe if you stick to the good areas.

Argentina, in a way is similar to the US in the following, you have big cities that exert a disproportionate power over the entire country. Buenos Aires City is like NY/DC/LA folded into one megalopolis, Rosario/Cordoba/Santa Fe city is like Chicago, Mendoza is like Denver. The rest of the country and the interior provinces is like rural America/flyover states, with economies based on agriculture/natural resources extraction, and relatively lacking in upward mobile opportunities for young people.

About the strikes and street demonstrations, hell I myself participated in one of those events in my Bs. As. colegio (equivalent of high school) years there, so not a big deal.

About accumulating wealth in general:

Does your company offer you a 401k retirement contribution plan? if so, continue to contribute the maximum if you could. As many other people alluded to, you want to maintain your status as an 'US person' if you choose to start a new life overseas.

You will have the best chance of accumulating significant wealth if you stay in the US, and take advantage of the opportunities this country has to offer. One significant advance of living in the US vs other countries is access to relatively cheap loan. And leverage one of the keys to accumulating wealth (the other being access to opportunities). Here you can get a house with a downpayment of as little as 3.5%, in Argentina it is at least 30% and not being an Argentine citizen could be a problem (although not impossible if you can show your ability to pay through your current job). Here is a link to Banco Hipotecacio, the biggest bank in Argentina that offer mortgage loans, with its underlying requirements https://www.hipotecario.com.ar/default.asp?id=255. Realistically, most real estate transactions in Argentina are done in cash and in USD for as long as I remember.

On the other hand, there is growing startup scene in Bs. As., with access and connections to the major private equity players in the world. So if you are ambitious, you could make it happen, even in Bs. As. Could you become the David Velez of Argentina? Velez, a Colombian, co-found the most disruptive fintech company in Brazil.

Can you change the title of your thread? to somewhere like 'pursuing in new life in Latam/Buenos Aires'?

Good luck in your plan of actions!
Thank you so much for your lengthy response. Those are some awesome ideas and I'm already brainstorming about the possible ways I can benefit professionally while living in Argentina. My firm does not offer a 401k at the moment so my investment will be primarily me getting into the scene myself. I'm not looking to stay permanently in the city so buying property is not on my radar, I'm just looking to spend the rest of my twenties there and enjoy my remaining youth. But I definitely will start to think about how I can capitalize on being a "US person."
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Old 07-23-2018, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,811 posts, read 4,437,604 times
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What are the strip clubs like in BA?
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Old 07-23-2018, 03:35 PM
 
146 posts, read 103,763 times
Reputation: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by philopower View Post
Thank you so much for your lengthy response. Those are some awesome ideas and I'm already brainstorming about the possible ways I can benefit professionally while living in Argentina. My firm does not offer a 401k at the moment so my investment will be primarily me getting into the scene myself. I'm not looking to stay permanently in the city so buying property is not on my radar, I'm just looking to spend the rest of my twenties there and enjoy my remaining youth. But I definitely will start to think about how I can capitalize on being a "US person."
Your plans sounds good. After your two or three-year stint in Bs.As., you will be able to bring fresh perspectives to companies in the U.S. Companies with strong Latam operations, e.g. Visa in Miami, just to name one.

Fintech/Startup scene articles:

https://www.cronista.com/negocios/En...0726-0024.html

https://www.finnovista.com/actualiza...-2018/?lang=en
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