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Old 04-22-2019, 09:05 AM
 
726 posts, read 380,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
If the Southern cone is a ****hole, what does that make the rest of Latin America?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...elopment_Index
Brazilian IDH by states;

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_...Brasil_por_IDH
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Old 04-24-2019, 10:07 AM
 
713 posts, read 474,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Untasted View Post
1) Most part of the (triangle shape) Southern Cone is under the tropic of capricorn , which means it's at a (subtropical, temperate, cold climate zone), but it's outside of the totally tropical zone. Sao Paulo it's in another level, it doesn't need to be southern cone. Sao Paulo its (multiracial). Numeracly it can have many whites but in terms of (percentage) all the southern cone area has an avarage of 70% with more caucasian features. Especially (Argentina and Rio grande do sul ), in the case of Parana, Paraguay and Chile the population is either meztizo or white. But certainly there's no an important pure indigenous or afrodescendant population unlike Sao Paulo. (I've been to all the southern region ) and Sao Paulo and Rio de janeiro are certainly way more multiracial

2) Mate is highly consumed especially in Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay and Rio grande do sul . In southern Chile and the other southern Brazil states is also consumed but not as much as the other regions in the southern cone . (Southern cone is not just an economical region ) it's a geographic, historical, racial, economical, climatological but Most of all is a (cultural) region. This is why Sao Paulo Cannot be fully considered part of this region because , geographilacally is moslty outside the triangle shape; historically is not particularly associated to the viceroyalty of the river plate (unlike south Brazil) , climatologically is practically tropical , culturally (doesn't have mate nor the gaucho theme culture ), racially is a melting pot , Economically Sao Paulo is the business hub of Brazil which is the only way comparable to the southern cone

3) Mate is tea (btw) ����

4) 10% ??? 10% ??? Doesn't sound much of a big deal to me
you say that Sao Paulo can't be "southern Cone" because it's multirracial, yet you acknowledge that Uruguay is multirracial. 10% of Afro Uruguayans is a lot, it's much more than the % of Afro Peruvians or Afro Ecuadorians, for example. A similar number of people declared themselves as "Afro Colombian" in the 2005 National Census (10,6% of the population). And Colombia is known for its African heritage.

you insist that Southern Cone including Chile is mainly White, and I said a couple of times already Chile is not, as many dna and genetics studies have showed. You also insist that Chile has not an indigenous population when 10% of Chileans declare themselves as "Mapuche". And Paraguay... Paraguay has a very strong indigenous influence and it's the only country in South America where most of the population speaks an indigenous language on a daily basis.


Mercosul is not a "Southern Cone" thing really. It's basically Brazil-Argentina and their mutual trade, but you say most of Brazil (including the core of its economy: Sao Paulo, Rio, Brasilia, Minas etc) is not part of the Southern Cone...

Chile wasn't part of the Vicerroyalty of the Río de la Plata either.

As it was already pointed out, Sao Paulo is at the same latitude as Northern Chile, Paraguay, and even part of Northern Argentina.


the reason why we ended up discussing Ríoplatense Spanish is because you said that Chile and Argentina were very similar and compared them to USA/Canada. But Chilean accent is different, so is the population and the idiosyncrasy of the people.


What is "Southern Cone" culture apart from mate? The Wikipedia article in English for the Southern Cone lists:

-Football: disagree, Chile doesn't have a bigger football palmares than Colombia, for example.
-Asados: they exist all over the rest of LatAm. Besides, Colombia produces even more beef than Paraguay, Uruguay and Chile (source: https://beef2live.com/story-world-be...tries-0-106885 )
-European immigration: it was also very large in several regions of Brazil; in Venezuela, Costa Rica, parts of Mexico and other countries.

The Spanish entry for the article doesn't even have a "cultura" section, it refers to the Southern Cone mainly as a geographical region.
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Old 04-24-2019, 10:20 AM
 
713 posts, read 474,943 times
Reputation: 396
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
If the Southern cone is a ****hole, what does that make the rest of Latin America?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...elopment_Index

All of Latin America is Third World. Argentina is a mess right now. Uruguay doesn't look as a wealthy country on Google Street View. Montevideo looks torn down on many areas and the rural areas are even worse. Chile is better but still a long way to go.
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Canada
4,811 posts, read 4,431,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joacocanal View Post
All of Latin America is Third World. Argentina is a mess right now. Uruguay doesn't look as a wealthy country on Google Street View. Montevideo looks torn down on many areas and the rural areas are even worse. Chile is better but still a long way to go.
Yes I agree but it seems rather harsh to call them a "****hole".
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Old 04-24-2019, 02:46 PM
 
142 posts, read 26,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joacocanal View Post
you say that Sao Paulo can't be "southern Cone" because it's multirracial, yet you acknowledge that Uruguay is multirracial. 10% of Afro Uruguayans is a lot, it's much more than the % of Afro Peruvians or Afro Ecuadorians, for example. A similar number of people declared themselves as "Afro Colombian" in the 2005 National Census (10,6% of the population). And Colombia is known for its African heritage.

you insist that Southern Cone including Chile is mainly White, and I said a couple of times already Chile is not, as many dna and genetics studies have showed. You also insist that Chile has not an indigenous population when 10% of Chileans declare themselves as "Mapuche". And Paraguay... Paraguay has a very strong indigenous influence and it's the only country in South America where most of the population speaks an indigenous language on a daily basis.


Mercosul is not a "Southern Cone" thing really. It's basically Brazil-Argentina and their mutual trade, but you say most of Brazil (including the core of its economy: Sao Paulo, Rio, Brasilia, Minas etc) is not part of the Southern Cone...

Chile wasn't part of the Vicerroyalty of the Río de la Plata either.

As it was already pointed out, Sao Paulo is at the same latitude as Northern Chile, Paraguay, and even part of Northern Argentina.


the reason why we ended up discussing Ríoplatense Spanish is because you said that Chile and Argentina were very similar and compared them to USA/Canada. But Chilean accent is different, so is the population and the idiosyncrasy of the people.


What is "Southern Cone" culture apart from mate? The Wikipedia article in English for the Southern Cone lists:

-Football: disagree, Chile doesn't have a bigger football palmares than Colombia, for example.
-Asados: they exist all over the rest of LatAm. Besides, Colombia produces even more beef than Paraguay, Uruguay and Chile (source: https://beef2live.com/story-world-be...tries-0-106885 )
-European immigration: it was also very large in several regions of Brazil; in Venezuela, Costa Rica, parts of Mexico and other countries.

The Spanish entry for the article doesn't even have a "cultura" section, it refers to the Southern Cone mainly as a geographical region.
1) Yes ! First and most of all the southern cone is a (geographical) term and includes all the countries and regions that fit in the triangle shape (Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay , south Brazil ) , Not Sao Paulo

2) we are pretty sure the southern cone has some afro descendants but not as relevant as Sao Paulo or the Caribbean (Uruguay population is not more than 3 million).

3) I never said the southern cone is 100% white because none of the former European Colonies soil is such a thing, you seem to not understand the southern cone is either meztizo or white , but no important pure indigenous or blacks unlike other Latin American regions like NorSo east brazil , the Caribbean, Mexico , Peru or ecuador

4) Paraguay is a (rarity) , it's the only country in the Americas that has an Indigenous language as an official language but its pure Indigenous population is less than 2%. I've been to the southern cone area including Paraguay , and most Paraguayans are either meztizo or white, but nothing like peruvians, North Brazilians or Mexicans

5) Mercosur is a Brazil Argentina thing only? (You need to read more lol

6) Mercosur is synonymous of Southern cone because even though it includes the whole Brazilian territory. It also only includes Argentina , Uruguay and Paraguay . For whatever reason other nations nearby are still not fully included in the bloc (there are many reasons such ideologies differences, legal issues ) but most likely it's because there's not enough affinities between southern cone and other south American nations . (As you may know ) the most prosperous and richest area in Brazil is the south , so unfortunately the south not being independent it still depends on the brazilian government., So that means if Brazil is part of any trade blocs all the states will be included).

7) who said Chile was part of the viceroyalty of the river plate? I didn't say that , Southern Brazil wasn't either but both regions are associated to the (most relevant) Spanish province at the time .

8) most part of the south east Brazil including Sao Paulo lie in the tropics below the 23 parallel south . Most part of Parana, Paraguay, North Chile and North Argentina are below the tropic of capricorn . Cities like Asuncion, Curitiba, San Miguel de tucuman are at 25 parallel south. So they're not (necessarily) at the same latitude , I'm assuming you're bad with numbers

9) I don't buy your excuse of accents and Argentinians being so special because of it


10) the most notorious characteristic of the southern cone is the (mate) but also the gaucho symbolism (especially ) in Rio grande do sul, Argentina (but common in Paraguay and south Chile ) I've seen it . No region in Latin America comsumed meat as much as in the southern cone , especially the way they do it, (barbacuing), other Latin countries cuisine is more beans, Rice, corn, base . That's already a lot in common!! . Another common trait in the southern cone beside the (European migration), is the fact that many Nazis fled over there after ww2 , which is not something to be proud of but another interesting fact is that the British were particularly interested in the region as well , so much that they invaded Buenos Aires twice . ( Southern cone could have ended up being an english speaker region if Buenos Aires didn't win , but the Brits did ended up having a piece of the region (the Fakland island ) . The anglos now have military advantage in all corners around the Earth poles (UK in Europe . Canada, USA in North America . Australia , New Zealand in Oceania . South Africa (still have a large English speaker population) in Africa and the Fakland island in the southern cone

Interestingly many supermodels and misses came.from the southern cone

Gisele Bundchen ( supermodel from south Brazil -Rio grande do sul )
Alesandra Ambrosio ( supermodel from south Brazil -Rio grande do sul)
Xuxa ( singer actress from south Brazil Rio grande do sul )
Valeria maza (Argentinian supermodel )
Cecilia boloco (Chilean miss universe)
Stefania stegman (Paraguayan winner of suprenational Poland 2015)
Fiorela Migliore (Paraguayan winner of miss Italia do mundo 2008)

Not that this matter but (it shows how these people are in The spotlight because their more European appearance), in the case of the Colombian and Venezuelan ladies (they rather have a more (exotic) looks which is highly appreciated but because the beauty standart has changed through out the years they are vivid representation of the stereotyped Latino look

11) all American countries received European migration but not as much as in the southern cone in percentage (Argentina and the USA are the 2 countries in the Americas that received the most Europeans ). So if you use your logic nearby countries (naturally) will have similar influence like uriguay, south Brazil , Chile and Paraguay . In the case of Mexico that borders with the USA (interestingly you'll notice northern mexicans tend to be more caucasians because the region they are located at it's above the tropic of cancer , they have more temperate climate, less indigenous population and more Europeans descendants in percentages), Monterrey is the most developed Mexican city (in northern Mexico)

Last edited by Untasted; 04-24-2019 at 03:37 PM..
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Old 04-24-2019, 03:13 PM
 
142 posts, read 26,236 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by joacocanal View Post
All of Latin America is Third World. Argentina is a mess right now. Uruguay doesn't look as a wealthy country on Google Street View. Montevideo looks torn down on many areas and the rural areas are even worse. Chile is better but still a long way to go.
We have to see where you from to judge. Southern cone and south Africa are not first world but they're still the most.prosperous region in their respective regions . Now let's look at the USA and we'll see many areas of the country having third world characteristics. Southwest, south and south east precisely. So if you compare the USA to Europe . The USA is still way behind in terms HDI , political views , religion beliefs, LGBT rights, and (especially health care and education system)
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Old 04-25-2019, 05:43 AM
 
726 posts, read 380,366 times
Reputation: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Untasted View Post
1) Yes ! First and most of all the southern cone is a (geographical) term and includes all the countries and regions that fit in the triangle shape (Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay , south Brazil ) , Not Sao Paulo

2) we are pretty sure the southern cone has some afro descendants but not as relevant as Sao Paulo or the Caribbean (Uruguay population is not more than 3 million).

3) I never said the southern cone is 100% white because none of the former European Colonies soil is such a thing, you seem to not understand the southern cone is either meztizo or white , but no important pure indigenous or blacks unlike other Latin American regions like NorSo east brazil , the Caribbean, Mexico , Peru or ecuador

4) Paraguay is a (rarity) , it's the only country in the Americas that has an Indigenous language as an official language but its pure Indigenous population is less than 2%. I've been to the southern cone area including Paraguay , and most Paraguayans are either meztizo or white, but nothing like peruvians, North Brazilians or Mexicans

5) Mercosur is a Brazil Argentina thing only? (You need to read more lol

6) Mercosur is synonymous of Southern cone because even though it includes the whole Brazilian territory. It also only includes Argentina , Uruguay and Paraguay . For whatever reason other nations nearby are still not fully included in the bloc (there are many reasons such ideologies differences, legal issues ) but most likely it's because there's not enough affinities between southern cone and other south American nations . (As you may know ) the most prosperous and richest area in Brazil is the south , so unfortunately the south not being independent it still depends on the brazilian government., So that means if Brazil is part of any trade blocs all the states will be included).

7) who said Chile was part of the viceroyalty of the river plate? I didn't say that , Southern Brazil wasn't either but both regions are associated to the (most relevant) Spanish province at the time .

8) most part of the south east Brazil including Sao Paulo lie in the tropics below the 23 parallel south . Most part of Parana, Paraguay, North Chile and North Argentina are below the tropic of capricorn . Cities like Asuncion, Curitiba, San Miguel de tucuman are at 25 parallel south. So they're not (necessarily) at the same latitude , I'm assuming you're bad with numbers

9) I don't buy your excuse of accents and Argentinians being so special because of it


10) the most notorious characteristic of the southern cone is the (mate) but also the gaucho symbolism (especially ) in Rio grande do sul, Argentina (but common in Paraguay and south Chile ) I've seen it . No region in Latin America comsumed meat as much as in the southern cone , especially the way they do it, (barbacuing), other Latin countries cuisine is more beans, Rice, corn, base . That's already a lot in common!! . Another common trait in the southern cone beside the (European migration), is the fact that many Nazis fled over there after ww2 , which is not something to be proud of but another interesting fact is that the British were particularly interested in the region as well , so much that they invaded Buenos Aires twice . ( Southern cone could have ended up being an english speaker region if Buenos Aires didn't win , but the Brits did ended up having a piece of the region (the Fakland island ) . The anglos now have military advantage in all corners around the Earth poles (UK in Europe . Canada, USA in North America . Australia , New Zealand in Oceania . South Africa (still have a large English speaker population) in Africa and the Fakland island in the southern cone

Interestingly many supermodels and misses came.from the southern cone

Gisele Bundchen ( supermodel from south Brazil -Rio grande do sul )
Alesandra Ambrosio ( supermodel from south Brazil -Rio grande do sul)
Xuxa ( singer actress from south Brazil Rio grande do sul )
Valeria maza (Argentinian supermodel )
Cecilia boloco (Chilean miss universe)
Stefania stegman (Paraguayan winner of suprenational Poland 2015)
Fiorela Migliore (Paraguayan winner of miss Italia do mundo 2008)

Not that this matter but (it shows how these people are in The spotlight because their more European appearance), in the case of the Colombian and Venezuelan ladies (they rather have a more (exotic) looks which is highly appreciated but because the beauty standart has changed through out the years they are vivid representation of the stereotyped Latino look

11) all American countries received European migration but not as much as in the southern cone in percentage (Argentina and the USA are the 2 countries in the Americas that received the most Europeans ). So if you use your logic nearby countries (naturally) will have similar influence like uriguay, south Brazil , Chile and Paraguay . In the case of Mexico that borders with the USA (interestingly you'll notice northern mexicans tend to be more caucasians because the region they are located at it's above the tropic of cancer , they have more temperate climate, less indigenous population and more Europeans descendants in percentages), Monterrey is the most developed Mexican city (in northern Mexico)
False.

Sao Paulo has higher HDI than all 3 south states, Uruguay and Argentina, facing massive northern immigration that the South have never faced.

You southerns talk about independency from Brazil but when Sao Paulo in 1932 started a independency war against against Brazil the cowards Southern states didn't supported Sao Paulo still helped Rio de Janeiro central goverment bombing our cities and invading by land our souther borders.

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_...Brasil_por_IDH
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Old 04-26-2019, 07:50 AM
 
142 posts, read 26,236 times
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Originally Posted by EVANGELISTTI View Post
False.

Sao Paulo has higher HDI than all 3 south states, Uruguay and Argentina, facing massive northern immigration that the South have never faced.

You southerns talk about independency from Brazil but when Sao Paulo in 1932 started a independency war against against Brazil the cowards Southern states didn't supported Sao Paulo still helped Rio de Janeiro central goverment bombing our cities and invading by land our souther borders.

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_...Brasil_por_IDH
1) let's go back to the original question (why is the southern cone the most prosperous region in Latin America ?) , The answer being because the southern cone is one of the regions with the largest European migration along with USA, Canada, Australia , New Zealand and South Africa

2) definition of the term Southern Cone

Geographical :
triangle shape landmass attached to south America mostly below the tropic of capricorn ( Argentina , Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, Parana, Santa Catarina , Rio Grande do Sul and the Fakland Island )

Economical:
Argentina , Chile and Uruguay

3) regardles of Sao Paulo,Rio , Mina's or vitoria having white population like other countries in Latin America , or regardless of being close to the southern cone area , at the end of the day south east Brazil is Just not part of the region and it's not just because the geographical circumstance, but also because of the cultural , racial , historical and climatological circumstances.

4) south east Brazil is a region of its own , a business hub in the tropics like Venezuela, mexico or Colombia. It doesn't need to be part of the southern cone
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Old 04-26-2019, 10:58 AM
 
726 posts, read 380,366 times
Reputation: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Untasted View Post
1) let's go back to the original question (why is the southern cone the most prosperous region in Latin America ?) , The answer being because the southern cone is one of the regions with the largest European migration along with USA, Canada, Australia , New Zealand and South Africa

2) definition of the term Southern Cone

Geographical :
triangle shape landmass attached to south America mostly below the tropic of capricorn ( Argentina , Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, Parana, Santa Catarina , Rio Grande do Sul and the Fakland Island )

Economical:
Argentina , Chile and Uruguay

3) regardles of Sao Paulo,Rio , Mina's or vitoria having white population like other countries in Latin America , or regardless of being close to the southern cone area , at the end of the day south east Brazil is Just not part of the region and it's not just because the geographical circumstance, but also because of the cultural , racial , historical and climatological circumstances.

4) south east Brazil is a region of its own , a business hub in the tropics like Venezuela, mexico or Colombia. It doesn't need to be part of the southern cone
So by your definition of south cone the most developed area of Latin America is not the south cone… Is Sao Paulo state (45 millions people), with superior HDI and GDP per capita.
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Old 04-26-2019, 11:11 AM
 
104 posts, read 19,761 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by joacocanal View Post
All of Latin America is Third World. Argentina is a mess right now. Uruguay doesn't look as a wealthy country on Google Street View. Montevideo looks torn down on many areas and the rural areas are even worse. Chile is better but still a long way to go.
montevideo looks just like Porto, or Naples, you have a very weird idea of what first world is.
you drive around the american south and is the first world but is full of poverty and infrastructure lacking.
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