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Old 05-01-2019, 03:19 PM
 
Location: London, UK
2,870 posts, read 1,544,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Untasted View Post
1) You have to be blind to not realize that Porto Alegre has a more dense European flavor than Bogota. Bogota still looks more like a typical Latin country. Yes just by judging through pictures and videos . Today we can analyze closely any city through (drones). Yes Bogota has some nice European buildings here and there but again not as many (per square miles) like Buenos Aires or Porto Alegre
I think its more than clear to everybody the blind one here is you. Buenos Aires yes, Porto Alegre no.

Here and there? Bogota has entire localities with evident Tudorbethan inspired architecture and industrial modernist buildings akin to those found in North America and Northern England especially.

Porto Alegre looks like your typical Brazilian city with non-descript mid-rises. At most its like a non-descript Mediteranean type city like Alicante or Sofia at best. Bogota on the other hand could pass for something close to Denver or Manchester. Even the British and US-Americans themselves say it, that Bogota reminds them of one city or another back home and I have at least a hundred sources to hand to demonstrate this.

Porto Alegre can by no means placed in the same architectural scope as Buenos Aires - your attempt at a de-facto style by association (i.e. being part of the Cono Sur) is a fantasy when referring to Porto Alegre specifically. Culturally perhaps, architectually, no.
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Old 05-01-2019, 04:03 PM
 
142 posts, read 26,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joacocanal View Post
I'm not sure why you keep on insisting that Southern Cone is so stable and wealthy when I showed many arguments against it, and proved you wrong over and over with several figures and studies. I already showed that Southern Cone countries (focusing on Argentina, especially, which is the main Southern Cone country) aren't the most wealthy, nor the most secure, nor the least corrupt, nor the most stable or prosperous etc etc. You just ignored all my sources and the data I posted, which don't lie.

Argentina is not among the most wealthiest of LatAm, it's poorer than Mexico, Costa Rica or Panama. Numbers don't lie.

None of these countries are stable. Uruguay suffered from a dictatorship from which the country didn't recover in decades, because of how hard it destroyed its economy. Pinochet dictatorship in Chile was ruthless. And Argentina... Argentina is like on a huge political or economical crisis every ten years, the country's history has been like a roallercoster. It's not an stable country, at all.

it's not, it's just a trade bloc. And Pacific Alliance is much more dynamic and active than Mercosur nowadays.

human mobility is pretty easy all over Latin America, not only in Mercosur. For a Colombian, settling in Argentina is just as easy as what it would be for a Paraguayan or whatever. Pacific Alliance has human mobility agreements too, scholarships etc.

it's an accent but it's completely different to Chilean accent. Which shows there isn't that much affinity as you think between Chile and Argentina/Uruguay.

loooooooool what?

most of the largest crops in the World are all tropical: sugarcane, rice, soybeans, mandioca, banana, batata, coffee... Corn is cultivated in tropical and non tropical areas, so are potatoes.

Potatoes, corn, soybeans are originary of the tropics. Tomatoes too.

loooooool are you serious? pretty much all of the main settlements during Colonial times in Latin America were at the tropics: Havana, Santo Domingo, Lima, Quito, Santa Fe (Bogota), Rio, Salvador, Mérida, Cusco, Cartagena, Caracas, Olinda, Potosí etc etc etc

No. You encounter more Whites in Cuba, Costa Rica, Colombia or Venezuela than in Chile according to DNA studies. Again, numbers don't lie.

Blacks are 10% of the Uruguayan population. Black immigrants are an important part of Chilean population nowadays. Pardos and Pretos are a significant % of the population of Southern Brazil. Read my posts before replying.

Venezuela's situation is more dramatic than Argentina. Argentina's situation is more dramatic that that of almost any other country in LatAm. Only Venezuela, Argentina and Nicaragua will have negative economic growth this year in the region.


and what about the other countries? I already showed you that Argentina has almost 1 million Natives, Chile has over 2 million. It's much more than other LatAm countries.

No , they don't, Paraguay has a higher poverty rate than these countries. Costa Rica or Panama have lower poverty rates than Argentina.

read this, please: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_threshold

are you saying the Southern Cone has had countries deemed as "developed"? sorry but no. No country in LatAm has been regarded as "advanced economy" by IMF. The World Bank considers the Southern Cone countries "high income" ones, but so does with Costa Rica and Panama and several Caribbean countries.

not all of the countries in "very high development" category of the HDI report are considered developed. Because HDI only considers very basic things such as school attendance.

neither Argentina nor Uruguay are part of OECD, Colombia is.

Uruguay has guerrillas and both State terrorism and subversive terrorism, so did Argentina, Brazil, Chile. Also, ruthless dictatorships, severe economic crisis, hiperinflation etc.

Compared to any LatAm country, Colombia has a stable currency with no megadevaluations, the Latin American crisis of the 80s didn't it as hard as other countries. It has a longer and more stable democracy and democratic institutions etc.


that's just one more of your unfounded, folly opinions, you haven't showed any basis for the claim that these cities have a larger European architecture than others, nor you have given any examples.

the Spanish colonial architecture complexes of Bogota, Quito, Lima, Santo Domingo, Havana, etc are much larger than these of Santiago or Montevideo. Argentina or Chile don't even have one third as many Colonial cities and towns with very old Spanish architecture as Colombia.

And not only Colonial architecture, but Republican and Modern architecture. Many European architects built things all over Colombia after Independence. Le Corbusier help to design many areas of Bogota. The English styled neighbourhood in Bogota has no equivalent in pretty much any other LatAm country.
Now I see you're colombian

1) funny how another southern cone country is the most developed in Latin America (Chile). Regardless of your (numbers)

2) let's give sometime to the Pacific Alliance

3) not having the same accent doesn't mean there's no affinities between Chile and Argentina

4) potatoes, bananas and coffee , beans and soybeans that's all?

5) yes the main settlements were in the tropics (during colonial times ) as you said it. Eventually most Europeans settled in temperate zones making these regions the most prosperous in the world like USA , Canada, Australia , New Zealand and the southern cone , (south Africa being still the alpha country in Africa )

6) 10% of Uruguayan population of 3 millions sounds like just a few thousands , unlike the millions of blacks in Brazil and the Caribbean

7) no Venezuela situation is waaaaaayyyyyy much worse

8) Even if southern cone had 3 or 5 millions (pure indigenous) population it will still way less than that of Mexico , Peru, North Brazil or even Colombia

9) what is a (developed) country anyway?, To see which countries are in that position let's take a look at the GDP (percapita ), GINI, HDI, (and as you mentioned it (income). Argentina , Uruguay and Chile still rank in high positions in all those measurements. You still bringing up those small tiny (tax free heavens countries ) as a represenation of the supposed my more (developed) tropical zones of Latin America than southern cone. Chile is the closest of becoming a developed country compared to some europeqn countries , Argentina was literally among the tip 10 of richest countries in the world.
First world ? That term is subjective , the USA being considered as a super developed country still faces third world problems . Argentina is a member of the G20.

10) southern cone had dictatorship (in the past ) , look at Venezuela and.colombia still facing dictatorships and guerrillas today, Colombia easily will surpase Argentina gdp but look at Colombia population almost reaching 50 millions

11) sir just Google , YouTube, and see for yourself videos taken by drones to verify that cities like Buenos Aires, cape town, Sydney, new York, Montreal have a heavier european influence in their architecture (per square smile). All of them located on temperate zone near the Earth poles . Tropical Latin America like Colombia, Mexico and North Brazil (even Sao Paulo and Rio ) they all have a more Spanish and Portuguese architecture mainly which still European but not as diverse as the other cities with more european influence. Butenos Aires in particular has mostly french, Italian, British influence architecture and less Spanish or portuguese
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Old 05-01-2019, 05:08 PM
 
Location: London, UK
2,870 posts, read 1,544,263 times
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Chile is the most developed, it's a Mestizo majority country, has a completely different economy, exports, social and political history to the Rio-Platense/Gaucho region that Southern Brazilians are so fond of lumping together to promote their white supremacist ideology.

The outlier here that disproves the whole concept these people try to pedal is Chile. Chile is basically half-way between Peru and Argentina just like Ecuador is half-way between Colombia and Peru. The curious thing is that Chile and Ecuador have a strong fraternal relationship. Perhaps because they can see similarities between each other.

The strongest arguments for the rise of Argentina/Uruguay and Southern Brazil is coaxing 19th century European migration (as opposed to those marred in colonial "trauma") and large swathes of temperate land perfect for big agro-industry.

Chile went about development a completely different way via mineral extraction and the rooting out of corruption in the political classes (something Argentina has never achieved). Even Ecuador has done a better job of rooting out corruption of late.

The two have histories far enough apart so as to create a clear distinction between them.
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Old 05-01-2019, 05:30 PM
 
142 posts, read 26,236 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
I think its more than clear to everybody the blind one here is you. Buenos Aires yes, Porto Alegre no.

Here and there? Bogota has entire localities with evident Tudorbethan inspired architecture and industrial modernist buildings akin to those found in North America and Northern England especially.

Porto Alegre looks like your typical Brazilian city with non-descript mid-rises. At most its like a non-descript Mediteranean type city like Alicante or Sofia at best. Bogota on the other hand could pass for something close to Denver or Manchester. Even the British and US-Americans themselves say it, that Bogota reminds them of one city or another back home and I have at least a hundred sources to hand to demonstrate this.

Porto Alegre can by no means placed in the same architectural scope as Buenos Aires - your attempt at a de-facto style by association (i.e. being part of the Cono Sur) is a fantasy when referring to Porto Alegre specifically. Culturally perhaps, architectually, no.
Now we have an argument about Bogota looking like Manchester or Denver ? ( No thanks )
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Old 05-01-2019, 06:51 PM
 
Location: London, UK
2,870 posts, read 1,544,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Untasted View Post
Now we have an argument about Bogota looking like Manchester or Denver ? ( No thanks )
Ok let's start listing the opinions from British and North Americans themselves instead of Gaucho ideologues.

1) Andrew Loog Oldham ex-manager of the Rolling Stones and Beatles publicist moved to Bogota because it reminded him of his childhood England...
"he nonetheless found something familiar in the dreary postwar skyline of the Colombian capital. “I thought, ‘Wow, it’s [like] 1957. I can start again.’ And that’s basically what I did,” he recalls.
- Financial Times


2) Marshall Powell from Seattle and Sam Life Afar an Aussie-Canadian say Bogota reminds them of Seattle or San Francisco, minute 1:55.




3) The Scottish bloggers: Two Scotts Abroad state;
"The red-bricked houses of Chapinero could easily be confused for Manchester in England."
- https://www.twoscotsabroad.com/la-candelaria-v-chapinero-bogota/



4) New Yorkers saying Bogota reminds them of their city minute 1:25 - I have more videos of many New Yorkers saying this, if you want more videos I can oblige.




5) These Canadian bloggers say the following;
"La Quinta Camacho was my absolute favorite Bogota neighborhood. It felt like a mid-sized English town, and not a mega Latin American metropolis. The difference is the brick Victorian homes are occupied by cool cafes, boutiques, microbreweries, and restaurants."
- https://theunconventionalroute.com/is-bogota-worth-visiting/


6) The Irish Times journalist Kieran Duffy says;
"Despite being close to the equator, its high altitude gives it a chilly wet climate that makes an Irishman feel quite at home."
- https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-...mbia-1.2173041


There are hundreds of these examples online! I can show you dozens more if you'd like.

Even in the UK & Ireland forum of this very site you see posters stating the similarities. Of course its nothing like the same but the influence is undoubtedly there.
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:01 PM
 
Location: London, UK
2,870 posts, read 1,544,263 times
Reputation: 1616
PS: I also mentioned the slight Northern Italian tinge and lo and behold I stumbled across this Milanese blogger saying how Bogota reminds her of Milan...
"Bogotŕ reminds me of my hometown at the time of the last boom, frenetic but at the same time faithful to its culture."
- https://www.donnavventura.com/eng/te...tage.asp?id=71
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Old 05-02-2019, 07:20 AM
 
104 posts, read 19,761 times
Reputation: 62
Argentina is a poor country living inside the carcass of a former rich country. Like the Men in black creature that lives inside the skin of a human.
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Old 05-02-2019, 09:01 AM
 
142 posts, read 26,236 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
PS: I also mentioned the slight Northern Italian tinge and lo and behold I stumbled across this Milanese blogger saying how Bogota reminds her of Milan...
"Bogotŕ reminds me of my hometown at the time of the last boom, frenetic but at the same time faithful to its culture."
- https://www.donnavventura.com/eng/te...tage.asp?id=71
Dont mean to be arrogant but over all I just don't find Bogota resembling any major European or North American city what's so ever . But if you think it does good for you. I do think New York and Buenos Aires are incredibly similar (beside New York being more modernized of course )
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Old 05-02-2019, 10:01 AM
 
Location: London, UK
2,870 posts, read 1,544,263 times
Reputation: 1616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Untasted View Post
Dont mean to be arrogant but over all I just don't find Bogota resembling any major European or North American city what's so ever . But if you think it does good for you. I do think New York and Buenos Aires are incredibly similar (beside New York being more modernized of course )
I'm just relaying the opinions of Native Britons, Irish, Aussies, Canadians and US-Americans. What I think is besides the point. As I said there are hundreds if not thousands of sources online, from New Zealanders and Scotts that think the Bogota Paramos resembles the Highlands to Londoners and New Yorkers feeling the resemblance to places like Shoreditch, Camden, Croydon, Williamsburg or Bronx respectively whilst in Bogota.

I also see the similarities of Buenos Aires and New York...more in fact.
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Old 05-02-2019, 11:36 AM
 
104 posts, read 19,761 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
I'm just relaying the opinions of Native Britons, Irish, Aussies, Canadians and US-Americans. What I think is besides the point. As I said there are hundreds if not thousands of sources online, from New Zealanders and Scotts that think the Bogota Paramos resembles the Highlands to Londoners and New Yorkers feeling the resemblance to places like Shoreditch, Camden, Croydon, Williamsburg or Bronx respectively whilst in Bogota.

I also see the similarities of Buenos Aires and New York...more in fact.
what European city does ny looks like? belgrade? NY looks nothing like Europe.
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