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Old 05-26-2019, 07:52 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 13 days ago)
 
5,173 posts, read 8,022,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joacocanal View Post
I don't see what it's so "overwhelmingly European" about tango (Afro-rooted music), mate (Indigenous beverage), locro or charquican (a couple of dishes with a Quechua name, and made with indigenous ingredients), chacarera (Argentina dance with very obvious indigenous influences), cueca (Chilean music with the same characteristics), candombe (Afro-rooted Uruguayan music tradition), curanto (cooking technique created by Chilote indians), humitas, tamales (indigenous food present all over Latin America), huasos and gauchos (the equivalents of Colombo-Venezuelan Llaneros, Mexican rancheros or Americanian cowboys)... so many things that are not "pure European" at all.

And even other cultural traits of these countries that have little to none Afro or Indigenous influence, but don't really have an equivalent in Europe. The culture in the Americas is something new, of our own. Things that were brought from Europe to Argentina, such as football, which was brought by the Brits over a century ago, but nowadays the football culture, the chants, the hooligans and how they relate with politicians and corruption, even the security aspects of it (the field and the stands are separated by high fences, unlike Europe or even Colombia where there are no fences in the stadiums), all of it is different from their Europe counterparts.
If it makes you feel better to use some of the cultural aspects that are not European and to assume the European wasn’t mostly of Spain at the times of colonization, go right ahead. Anyone that wants to truly check each aspect of the culture of most of the mixed people would see that it is mostly of European extraction. This is actually a non-issue.
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Old 05-26-2019, 08:12 AM
 
Location: London, UK
2,875 posts, read 1,546,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
If it makes you feel better to use some of the cultural aspects that are not European and to assume the European wasn’t mostly of Spain at the times of colonization, go right ahead. Anyone that wants to truly check each aspect of the culture of most of the mixed people would see that it is mostly of European extraction. This is actually a non-issue.
Not sure Mate, Humitas, Candombe, Tamales, Curanto is of mostly European extraction. You need to be more specific.

Tango yes is mainly morphed into European tradition, the afro roots have been stripped out. Cueca and Chacarera is also Europe biased though the Native influence is strong. Cowboy culture is definitely an evolution of mainly European extraction in the new world.

Although I agree with Untasted in this. Appropriation, whilst it doesn't negate the roots, it doesn't necessarily correlate with racial make-up. It's no doubt that Argentina is majority White despite Mate and Tango but Chile simply isn't. Even their capital was built upon an old Inca city, there was and still is a large Native American population in Chile.

The fact of the matter is and one which untasted or Mr Pilot can't accept is that it's Chile, the Mestizo country of the Southern Cone (more Mestizo than either Venezuela, Colombia or Costa Rica which are also Mestizo majority countries) that is the most developed country. Not the White majority country, Argentina whose also being surpassed by another even more Mestizo country, Mexico.
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Old 05-26-2019, 08:51 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 13 days ago)
 
5,173 posts, read 8,022,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
Not sure Mate, Humitas, Candombe, Tamales, Curanto is of mostly European extraction. You need to be more specific.

Tango yes is mainly morphed into European tradition, the afro roots have been stripped out. Cueca and Chacarera is also Europe biased though the Native influence is strong. Cowboy culture is definitely an evolution of mainly European extraction in the new world.
Take everything that is culture. The language is mostly Spanish, the art, architecture, most of the foods (though it varies depending on the country), etc. Most of most sections in the culture of the mixed person originated in Spain.

Quote:
Although I agree with Untasted in this. Appropriation, whilst it doesn't negate the roots, it doesn't necessarily correlate with racial make-up. It's no doubt that Argentina is majority White despite Mate and Tango but Chile simply isn't. Even their capital was built upon an old Inca city, there was and still is a large Native American population in Chile.

The fact of the matter is and one which untasted or Mr Pilot can't accept is that it's Chile, the Mestizo country of the Southern Cone (more Mestizo than either Venezuela, Colombia or Costa Rica which are also Mestizo majority countries) that is the most developed country. Not the White majority country, Argentina whose also being surpassed by another even more Mestizo country, Mexico.
I know they have a problem with this. lol It is their problems after is said and done.
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Old 05-26-2019, 09:39 AM
 
145 posts, read 26,605 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
Not sure Mate, Humitas, Candombe, Tamales, Curanto is of mostly European extraction. You need to be more specific.

Tango yes is mainly morphed into European tradition, the afro roots have been stripped out. Cueca and Chacarera is also Europe biased though the Native influence is strong. Cowboy culture is definitely an evolution of mainly European extraction in the new world.

Although I agree with Untasted in this. Appropriation, whilst it doesn't negate the roots, it doesn't necessarily correlate with racial make-up. It's no doubt that Argentina is majority White despite Mate and Tango but Chile simply isn't. Even their capital was built upon an old Inca city, there was and still is a large Native American population in Chile.

The fact of the matter is and one which untasted or Mr Pilot can't accept is that it's Chile, the Mestizo country of the Southern Cone (more Mestizo than either Venezuela, Colombia or Costa Rica which are also Mestizo majority countries) that is the most developed country. Not the White majority country, Argentina whose also being surpassed by another even more Mestizo country, Mexico.
Venezuela and Colombia have significant afrodescendants , native , whites and most of all mix people Over all they are way more diverse and Multiraciales.
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Old 05-26-2019, 09:49 AM
 
Location: London, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Untasted View Post
Venezuela and Colombia have significant afrodescendants , native , whites and most of all mix people Over all they are way more diverse and Multiraciales.
Venezuela perhaps as most people live on or near the coast but Colombia is a completely different kettle of fish. People are not as mixed with African because this component has largely kept its purity through geographical isolation unlike Venezuela or Brazil where the fact that they all live in the same place (near the coasts with little obstacles) has lead to more mixing.

The Black population in Colombia is very separate from the rest. The only partial exception is the Caribbean region (however, even in the Caribbean region you have an element of separation with the Afro-Centric West Uraba-Cartatgena-Palenque and more White-Centric centre Barranquilla-Santa Marta-Valledupar and more Native-Centric East, La Guajira-Rural Magdalena) and more recently Cali.
With regards to the Mestizo portions of the country, Colombians tend to be more Caucasian than Chileans, DNA tests prove it time and time again. Venezuelans too as they experienced a large portion of 20th century European migration, much more than Chile.

However, all of this is by-the-by as it doesn't change the fact that Chile, the majority Mestizo country is the most developed. That's the point you just can't stomach, it's hilarious.

Last edited by Pueblofuerte; 05-26-2019 at 10:02 AM..
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPilot View Post
Also Argentines have always had a roller coaster economy
It's an example of a very poorly-run European influenced government.
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPilot View Post
Southern Cone has no equivalent outside of it. I say this from my travels and job offers abroad, not by being keyboard activists.
Most of the people on this thread either live in South America or have family there and travel there.
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Old 05-26-2019, 12:26 PM
 
715 posts, read 475,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Untasted View Post

I smell someone trying to whiten up Colombia
Cultural appropriation by Europeans is a very old story .
Just because you have indigenous or black customs doesn't mean youre (Racially ) one of them . Notorious case is Paraguay which is the only country in the Americas that has an Indigenous language as an official language YET the avarage paraguayan is light skin mestizo with more caucasoid features , the pure indigenous population is less than 2 % in the country with practically no afrodescendants.
Uruguay too embrace and has African rooted culture when its black population is only 5% . Northeast Argentina uses an Indigenous language in some areas as well. Not to mention the so called and beloved (mate) which is highly comsumed in the southern cone region , including southern Brazil and to a lesser degree in Chile, but it's particularly comsumed in Argentina Paraguay and Uruguay . Mate is clearly an indigenous rooted custom originated in Paraguay that eventually spread out in the surrounding region. So yes whites having cultures that are not necessarily (European) has nothing to do with (race).
It's very ironic that countries with the largest indigenous and black population like Brazil , Mexico and Peru descriminates and feel ashamed of the native and black rooted customs . And always trying to whiten up their countries. When southern cone countries not being particularly native or black embrace them .
there is no relation between saying that Southern Cone has strong Indigenous and Afro influence, and trying to "whiten" other country.

Chile and Paraguay are not White countries, but Mestizo ones. Genetically speaking, both countries are more or less half White, half Native. And naturally, their cultural traits reflect on that. These countries are strongly native, so is Argentina, and Uruguay, to a lesser degree (larger White population, but still minoritary).

Uruguay is not 5% Afro, but 10%, as I said a couple of times on previous posts.

The indigenous groups of Argentina are spread all over the country, so are their languages: https://i2.wp.com/www.redaccion.com....pg?w=640&ssl=1 Remember that almost 1 million Argentinians recognize themselves as indigenous.

Afros have a huge modern influence in Uruguay and Southern Brazil. But also in Chile and Argentina, because of immigration from Haiti, DR, Venezuela, Colombia and other Latino and even African countries. Afros played a huge role in Chilean Independence battles, and in Argentina too.

Mexico and Peru embrace their Native heritage much more strongly than Chile or Argentina do. Brazilians embrace their Black heritage, but yes, there is still a lot of racism in all of these countries. Blacks are also very important in Mexico and Peru's history but they have been neglected and invisibilized (there are books about that).
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Old 05-27-2019, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
5,822 posts, read 9,473,330 times
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Tango is Argentina's version of the waltz. I'm unaware of and unable to hear any African influence in it at all.
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Old 05-27-2019, 01:53 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 13 days ago)
 
5,173 posts, read 8,022,345 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
Venezuela perhaps as most people live on or near the coast but Colombia is a completely different kettle of fish. People are not as mixed with African because this component has largely kept its purity through geographical isolation unlike Venezuela or Brazil where the fact that they all live in the same place (near the coasts with little obstacles) has lead to more mixing.

The Black population in Colombia is very separate from the rest. The only partial exception is the Caribbean region (however, even in the Caribbean region you have an element of separation with the Afro-Centric West Uraba-Cartatgena-Palenque and more White-Centric centre Barranquilla-Santa Marta-Valledupar and more Native-Centric East, La Guajira-Rural Magdalena) and more recently Cali.
With regards to the Mestizo portions of the country, Colombians tend to be more Caucasian than Chileans, DNA tests prove it time and time again. Venezuelans too as they experienced a large portion of 20th century European migration, much more than Chile.

However, all of this is by-the-by as it doesn't change the fact that Chile, the majority Mestizo country is the most developed. That's the point you just can't stomach, it's hilarious.
Also keep in mind that the average black is more Spanish than the average indian. This is mostly due to most black arrived as slaves to the Spanish, so most had more constant contact with the Spanish than the average indian. Passing the Spanish culture was easier to the average black than to the average indian. In fact, almost all blacks speak Spanish as a mother tongue (and is the only language they know) while many more indian don’t have Spanish as their mother tongue.

The mixed folks are mostly the same through out the region. That is culturally they are mostly Spanish. If they are mestizos than the indian culture takes second place and the African takes third, for most its only a trace. If they are mulattos, then the African takes second and the indian takes third. Most of this is blended with the Spanish being overwhelming in most cultural practices. Usually in some words mixed to the Spanish language, some of the music, some of the foods and a few other things you will see the indian or African (most likely both) the strongest compare to most other cultural traits.

In recent times we can also add American, Arab (mostly Christian from Lebanon) and a few new traditions added to the general culture, but its a few in this cultural trait and a few in another. There isn’t a single Latino country where most mixed people have mostly an American or Arab culture very evident. The exceptions are the minority that is from there or descend from people from there. In most countries (to not say all) the Arabs, for example, are negligible in the average DNA. The same can’t be said with the Spanish, the indian, and the african DNA, which all three are present in most peoples DNA.

Last edited by AntonioR; 05-27-2019 at 02:07 PM..
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