U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Americas
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-21-2019, 11:59 AM
 
Location: London, UK
2,875 posts, read 1,546,441 times
Reputation: 1616

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by supfromthesite View Post
Europeans brought hospitals, written language, schools, architecture, and modern medicine to the world and you bring up gunpowder?
You really flunked history didn't you? Hospitals didn't exist in the 1500's. The Age of Enlightenment which paved the way for the modern hospital occured in the 18th century.

That Age of Enlightenment happened due to wealth generated on the backs of conquest, exploitation of foreign natural resources and slave labour via the barrel of a gun. Do I have to draw you a picture of a timeline for your level of intellect to comprehend? So yes, gunpowder was essential for the centuries of domination to come.

As for architecture, Tenochtitlan was a marvel unto its own as noted by the conquistadors only Paris, Constantinople and Venice could rival it at the time. 5 x the size of London, it was one of the largest and most splendid cities in the world which the Europeans destroyed!

The Aztec advancement in architecture, irrigation and astronomy was second to none.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-21-2019, 12:11 PM
 
Location: London, UK
2,875 posts, read 1,546,441 times
Reputation: 1616
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPilot View Post
Ottomans didn't harness muskets? that was a spanish invention.... unless you talk about janisaries? they were westerners taken from their families as children and enslaved to be soldiers afaik. Why would u even bring the ottoman empire into this discussion? Do you have a soft spot for international islamism?
Lol islamism? That's a curve ball...you really are reaching for prejudist influenced accusations here but hey that's how your mind works. I dislike authoritarian religion full stop.

A little history lesson for you too. The matchlock arquebus was the first musket and appeared in the Ottoman empire in the early 1400's it then went to Europe just before the Age of Exploration. The perfect marriage for the colonialism, slavery and exploitation of natural resources that ensued for the next 450 years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-21-2019, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Fort Collins, USA
1,473 posts, read 2,368,271 times
Reputation: 1806
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPilot View Post
The chileans governing are all european or quite european. Same goes for all countries... like south africa was improving with the whites but now regressing with the ongoing war against them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Untasted View Post
That's been my whole point . But we also have to understand these types of references are perceived as highly (racist for the non whites, even when they're not ). But between you and me �� we know these are also facts ) .
What's happening in south Africa with the white genocide is very sad. Since the Mandela times south Africa has been drastically falling from Grace economically...

So now it’s the whiteness of the people in government that is the determining factor? Why have you wasted everybody’s time then arguing the it’s the whiteness of the general population that matters? You should figure out your base positions before continuing on with this discussion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-21-2019, 12:50 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 13 days ago)
 
5,173 posts, read 8,022,345 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
You really flunked history didn't you? Hospitals didn't exist in the 1500's. The Age of Enlightenment which paved the way for the modern hospital occured in the 18th century.
Hospitals didn’t the exist in the 1500s? What?

What is this...


https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosp...C3%A1s_de_Bari

Hint #1: It was the first of its kind in this hemisphere.

Hint #2: It was built by the Spanish.

Hint #3: It was built between 1503 and 1508, and functioned for several centuries.

Hint #4: All these centuries it had the same name.

It used to be bigger, because it also covered the corner where a white church is now and went up the block quite a bit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-21-2019, 02:13 PM
 
Location: London, UK
2,875 posts, read 1,546,441 times
Reputation: 1616
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Hospitals didn’t the exist in the 1500s? What?

What is this...


https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosp...C3%A1s_de_Bari

Read my post - NOT as we know them today. The first hospitals were re like psychiatric institutions with homeopathic remedies and rudimentary instruments sometimes even less in knowledge as those practised by healers in some indigenous communities at the time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-21-2019, 02:48 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 13 days ago)
 
5,173 posts, read 8,022,345 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
Read my post - NOT as we know them today. The first hospitals were re like psychiatric institutions with homeopathic remedies and rudimentary instruments sometimes even less in knowledge as those practised by healers in some indigenous communities at the time.
I did read what you wrote. Hospitals, like everything else, is an evolution that at certain points in history had leaps. The 1500s definitely had hospitals in Spanish America and it was brought by the Spanish. That’s not even open for debate. Its very similar to the boats, the European ones crossed the Atlantic and let everyone know of what they found. It wasn’t the other way around and it looks Native Americans from Alaska down to Argentina were not ready to sail the Atlantic... yet. It was also the Spanish who brought the gunpowders and the sword, the written word and Christianity.

I don’t really care about the posts of a few people in this thread. I, like most people, know what their problem is. At this point its kind of in the open, but before it was obvious to most it was obvious to me. Yet, even they in once in a while touch on the truth, the hospitals brought by the Europeans being one of them. Most things from the 1500s isn’t like today and modern medicine still shuns traditional medicine just about everywhere.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2019, 04:55 AM
 
7 posts, read 1,007 times
Reputation: 11
This thread was obviously created by an Argentinian lol. Sorry but I have to play as the devil's advocate. First point is that there's no such developed Latin American country , even the USA is struggling to keep its so called status as a super developed nation. Argentina might have been rich prior to the 1900s buy those glory days faded away very quickly. All we hear about Argentina in Spain is their economical, political crisis and their poverty rates. Lol As for the racial part , real pure whites are only from Europe . Americans from North and South are in general bi or multiracials. North Argentina (tucuman, jujuy, salta) is probably as Indigenous as neighboring countries like Bolivia . I have noticed many Argentinians changed their accents once they migrate to Spain, I don't know if the reason is because they are embarrassed by their own accent and want to go unnoticed or beacuse they really buy that pathetic belief they are Europeans (lmao) . Even the whitest person from America has an oddity on her appearance and looks . To be european you have to be born and raised in Europe.
The title of this thread should be called (the Argentinian Pretentiousness )

Latin America is seen as a single region and doesn't really play anything in the global sphere and the USA has many characteristics of a third world country.

Last edited by ForumRules2000; 06-24-2019 at 05:45 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2019, 05:58 AM
 
Location: London, UK
2,875 posts, read 1,546,441 times
Reputation: 1616
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Yet, even they in once in a while touch on the truth, the hospitals brought by the Europeans being one of them. Most things from the 1500s isnít like today and modern medicine still shuns traditional medicine just about everywhere.
The hospitals brought by the Europeans were no more advanced medicine-wise than what was already there in the Americas and behind in some aspects also.

The premise was that modern medicine was brought over, it wasn't, it was developed way after thanks in part to riches and wealth generated from conquest which allowed moneys for research, invention and leisure to take place in the invader countries for the centuries after.

So no, the hospital as we know it today is squarely based in the 17th century and precisely what posters like supfromthesite had in mind when making that declaration. If not then hospitals existed from the leprosy compounds of post-christendom Mesopotomia, no bearing on the advent of modern hospitals.

Furthermore civilizations of the Americas used Obsidian for their instruments, same used in surgical tools today, three quarters of all our modern day medicines come from plants, the largest chunk being sourced in the Americas. The natives harnessed these properties for healing they understood quinine for controlling malaria and cramps, wild yam for pain relief, nausea and birth control also Mesoamerican human sacrificial practices made them experts in human anatomy. In my family we have 2 surgeons, 3 doctors (one head of regional epidemiology for the WHO) and a bunch of nurses and even now they're touting homeopathic remedies as some of the best and most importantly least harmful, especially as we understand it better through science. So whilst modern medicine is indeed invaluable a lot of that crucial ancestral knowledge was lost or sidelined but through modern science (and I'm talking about just the last 5 years) its seen the beginnings of a resurgence.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2019, 10:46 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 13 days ago)
 
5,173 posts, read 8,022,345 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
The hospitals brought by the Europeans were no more advanced medicine-wise than what was already there in the Americas and behind in some aspects also.

The premise was that modern medicine was brought over, it wasn't, it was developed way after thanks in part to riches and wealth generated from conquest which allowed moneys for research, invention and leisure to take place in the invader countries for the centuries after.

So no, the hospital as we know it today is squarely based in the 17th century and precisely what posters like supfromthesite had in mind when making that declaration. If not then hospitals existed from the leprosy compounds of post-christendom Mesopotomia, no bearing on the advent of modern hospitals.

Furthermore civilizations of the Americas used Obsidian for their instruments, same used in surgical tools today, three quarters of all our modern day medicines come from plants, the largest chunk being sourced in the Americas. The natives harnessed these properties for healing they understood quinine for controlling malaria and cramps, wild yam for pain relief, nausea and birth control also Mesoamerican human sacrificial practices made them experts in human anatomy. In my family we have 2 surgeons, 3 doctors (one head of regional epidemiology for the WHO) and a bunch of nurses and even now they're touting homeopathic remedies as some of the best and most importantly least harmful, especially as we understand it better through science. So whilst modern medicine is indeed invaluable a lot of that crucial ancestral knowledge was lost or sidelined but through modern science (and I'm talking about just the last 5 years) its seen the beginnings of a resurgence.
Show just one Native American civilization that had hospitals that wasn’t introduced by the Europeans. I’ll wait.

Tic...

Toc...

Tic...

Toc...



What’s next? That Europeans didn’t brought the simple thought of putting round objects to large square or rectangle things to make them roll? Such a big continent (or two) with so many civilizations and not a single person thought of that until those people crossed the Atlantic and gave the simple idea. Just give credit where is due and move on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2019, 12:34 PM
 
Location: London, UK
2,875 posts, read 1,546,441 times
Reputation: 1616
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Show just one Native American civilization that had hospitals that wasn’t introduced by the Europeans. I’ll wait.
I cede on your version and some text book versions of a "hospital" but not on the version premised by the particular poster which is the modern day hospital. However, neither the hospital or the wheel has its origins in Europe but in what was Mesopotamia.

Despite this the Mayans still managed to architecturally create some of the tallest structures in the world of the era, a monumental engineering feat.

My focus is on attacking the premise not the lexicon. I've made it clear what I meant and stated initially although possibly not clear enough in the first statement. The modern day hospital not that of the 1500's which shows no clear advancement over native medicine of the time. That's my arguments without need for the "tic toc" childish/antagonistic nonsense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Americas
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top