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Old 07-31-2019, 12:03 PM
 
16 posts, read 3,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPilot View Post
a friendly reminder: 2018 HDI classification data
southern cone is more developed.

Australia and New Zealand are the only (developed) countries in the ENTIRE Southern Hemisphere. Lol
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:08 AM
 
735 posts, read 389,964 times
Reputation: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
Whilst I agree with all that you said this isn't really a fair indication as Brazil is far more accessible to Argentines than to Colombians, ticket prices are cheaper, road travel is possible and the main destinations are way way closer not to mention Argentines have practically no world class beach destinations which Colombia does have within its borders. Colombians are actually becoming an important tourist source market and it shows in their recent presence in Brazil, showcasing growing purchasing power. Colombians also make up the 4th largest visitor nation to Mexico (a top 10 travel destination by numbers) only behind US, Canada and UK and is set to surpass UK becoming the 3rd. Its also the 2nd largest LatAm visitor/investor country to the state of Florida only behind Brazil and a top 15 country Statewide and the 2nd LatAm visitor country to Dominican Republic another global hard hitter in terms of total numbers.

Finally, now that tourist Visa restrictions have been lifted for the EU, Colombia is now competing with Argentina (and will probably soon surpass it) for the 1st spot as the main source country from LatAm. Just to Spain (The worlds leading tourist receptor country) Colombia jumped from 330,000 in 2017 to 427,000 in 2018 whereas Argentina dropped from 747,000 in 2017 to 540,000 in 2018. Brazil also dropped from 2nd place to 4th place behind Mexico. You're right it takes a generation or two rather than just one years GDP but the seeds of change are showing and quickly.
How I said I gave one EXAMPLE. Really important mensuration when someone want know the level of people wealth in some country.
Argentina has the weakest currency in south america (Venezuela is another world), even so, how you said they traveling a lot abroad and for example suprass Colombia (with its stronger currency) in a neutral destination for both, Spain. Central y north America is easier to Colombians as Brazil is easier to Argentineans. Any way I don’t know why Camburiu the southmost beach destination in Brazil is where most Colombians are found and northeast coast of Brazil is where the moneyed argentineans go, but not the colombians that have there closer.
Camburiu and all Santa Catarina coast are beach destination for the workclass argentineans who get there by road trips.

But Colombia is really a good comparation for Argentina both countries have similar population size.
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:31 AM
 
735 posts, read 389,964 times
Reputation: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by upthere22 View Post
Thats a wrong analysis, what happens is that those countries have very large populations and even if 70% of their population is in poverty the other 30% is a market large enough to be important for tourism, and travel.

The Argentinian middle class is large enough (in numbers) to support direct flights to beaches in Brazil and even as far as Punta Cana and Cancun. and even if the country goes to **** they still will have disposable income to spend. an small country like lets say panama, could have a larger and richer middle class (percent wise) but they will never be enough people for that market to be considerable.

if 30% of the Argentinians are middle class thats 15 million people.
if 50% of the Panamanians are middle class thats 2 million people.

if you are going to open a Cartier store, where would you put it?

of course you will see Argentinians all over the world, but do that make them richer? no.

You seem to like to cut the data to present the reality the way you want.
you insist in cutting southern Brazil from the rest of the country in order to argue that Brazil is richer than what it is.
now you want to cut the Argentinian upper class to say Argentina is richer than what really is.

stop doing that.

remember this: all the data we are dealing now marked 2018 is really from 2017, Argentina situation has deteriorated much more since
just this January poverty reached 32% and extreme poverty 7%. Since then GDP has fallen 2% and keeps falling. by the end of the year poverty could reach 40%!!


What to expect in the near future:

A drop on the HDI (as income is part of the equation and income has dropped)
GDP to drop 2% or maybe a bit less to 1.8%.
GDP-PPP to drop a lot due to inflation of 40%.
But i didn't compare Argentina with Panamá! I used a country with similar population size and in good shape economically. Colombia.

Different of most people here i want that all neghboring countries in good shape, it is a common mindset in Brazil... Better a rich neighborhood as partners trade, and receive them as tourists than as example Venezuela today... or Paraguay, Peru, Colombia and Bolívia in the past. Exporting poverty, refuges, drugs and guns...
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Old 08-01-2019, 08:58 AM
 
734 posts, read 488,503 times
Reputation: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVANGELISTTI View Post
BUT people there are richer than the average Mexican, Colombian, Brazilian or Caribbean.
not necessarily. According to some studies, they aren't.

According to this list Argentina is below Chile, Uruguay, CR, Panamá, Peru, Mexico, Colombia, El Salvador, Brazil and Ecuador, by wealth per adult: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...alth_per_adult

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
In Chile people think that most Colombians are people that look like Africans because most Colombians over there are from the Pacific coast of Colombia..
That's not true, most Colombians in Chile aren't from the Pacific coast, and aren't Black. It's just a myth created because some "visible" Colombian immigrants in northern Chile are Black. But even there, there are a lot of Mestizo Colombians. For one, you can check this video from the Colombian community in Antofagasta: https://www.24horas.cl/regiones/anto...raguay-3408867
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Old 08-01-2019, 05:19 PM
 
456 posts, read 567,242 times
Reputation: 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForumRules2000 View Post
Australia and New Zealand are the only (developed) countries in the ENTIRE Southern Hemisphere. Lol
you didn't quite read my statement correctly. I said southern cone is MORE developed; NOT fully developed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Develo...untry#Rankings

but it does seem that Chile ticks all the marks to be considered developed, check out the link
cya
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Old 08-04-2019, 03:07 PM
Status: "Thinking of the future..." (set 27 days ago)
 
5,437 posts, read 8,122,408 times
Reputation: 4302
Quote:
Originally Posted by joacocanal View Post
That's not true, most Colombians in Chile aren't from the Pacific coast, and aren't Black. It's just a myth created because some "visible" Colombian immigrants in northern Chile are Black. But even there, there are a lot of Mestizo Colombians. For one, you can check this video from the Colombian community in Antofagasta: https://www.24horas.cl/regiones/anto...raguay-3408867
That’s not the image that Chileans tend to have of Colombians or Colombia.
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Old 08-05-2019, 10:02 AM
 
734 posts, read 488,503 times
Reputation: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
That’s not the image that Chileans tend to have of Colombians or Colombia.
how would you know what's the image they have? has ever been a poll made about the subject?

the fact is that most Colombians in Chile aren't Afro, and most of them don't live in the north of the country, but in the central valley.


Colombians celebrating in Santiago after a football game:



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Old 08-05-2019, 01:25 PM
Status: "El Paso in our thoughts and prayers" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Canada
4,915 posts, read 4,496,733 times
Reputation: 3316
I recently heard a Chilena complain about immigrants in her country (yet she herself is an immigrant here in Canada). It seems to be the new thing to **** on immigrants. In the case of Latin America it's funny (and sad) since there as been much movement across borders for centuries.
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Old 08-05-2019, 01:41 PM
 
Location: London, UK
2,896 posts, read 1,577,167 times
Reputation: 1642
Although its true that most of the Colombian population in Chile is of Mestizo origin (especially from the city of Cali). A larger percentage is of African ancestry from the Pacific coast than other immigrant populations where Pacific coasters are practically negligible in numbers.

As most Chileans had never seen a black person in the flesh until the arrival of Haitians and AfroColombians from the Pacific coast, they make more of an impact. Hence whilst the maybe 25% of the Colombians in Chile are of visible African descent, to them it may feel more like close to double that. Most of the pejorative terms towards Colombians referencing 'blackness' have origins in Chile such as "Congolombianos", "ColombiAfrica", "Culombianas", "Negros Culiaos", etc.
The funny thing is these people would be shocked to find out that Colombia is whiter in general than Chile and would lead many in Chile to have a mental breakdown as is the case with some posters in this very forum.
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Old 08-05-2019, 01:50 PM
 
Location: London, UK
2,896 posts, read 1,577,167 times
Reputation: 1642
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVANGELISTTI View Post
Colombia (with its stronger currency) in a neutral destination for both, Spain. Central y north America is easier to Colombians as Brazil is easier to Argentineans. Any way I don’t know why Camburiu the southmost beach destination in Brazil is where most Colombians are found and northeast coast of Brazil is where the moneyed argentineans go, but not the colombians that have there closer.
You still don't take into consideration certain variables.

1. Colombia's Peso is one of the worst performing currencies in the world and has devalued more than the Brazilian Real. I wouldn't call it strong, better than the Argentine peso sure but that's only like the past year. The main difference is good macroeconomic policies that have kept inflation in check and the gradual phasing in of the US, EU and South Korea free trade agreements which have kept most important imports at a similar price-point historically not to mention more competition from a growing market and that Amazon has opened its base in Bogota further reducing prices of big ticket items.

2. Spain is not really a neutral destination. Remember Colombians have only just been granted Visa Free travel, it takes time for travel habits to change and take hold. It's almost predetermined that Colombia will surpass Argentina as a tourist source market.

3. Fortaleza is actually closer to Buenos Aires than it is to Bogota! Sure the Mercator map may look different but South America is much wider in reality than it appears on the map. That puts every main travel destination in Brazil from Florianopolis to Porto Seguro to Salvador much closer and easily accessible for beach hungry Argentines. Colombians are not so beach hungry they have plenty within their own borders.
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