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Old 07-05-2018, 12:21 AM
 
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As title says, what makes the Southern Cone region the most prosperous part of Latin America? Southern Cone refers to Chile, Argentina, Uruguay and Southern Brazil. What makes this region have higher HDI and GDP per capita than the rest of Latin America?


Also, Argentina was the heavyweight in this region but has recently been surpassed by Chile and Uruguay. Aside from some bad government decisions, are there any other reasons for this? Cultural or otherwise? Looking at some rankings, Chile and Uruguay rank very high in lack of corruption, while Argentina is perceived as very corrupt. While the region as a whole has good safety statistics, there are many instances of theft, burglary, swindling and warnings that tourists and other visitors need to be wary about in the region, with Chile and Uruguay not seemingly better than Argentina in these regards. And if Argentina has it so bad recently, are lots of Argentines moving to Uruguay or Chile?
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Old 07-05-2018, 01:25 AM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
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Nobody in the world really cares about crime rates. Crime is a background risk everywhere, it is easy to tweak your lifestyle to keep out of the path of opportunistic criminals. The great majority of Americans live in urban metros that have pockets where the crime rate is high, and people deal with it -- nobody yearns to emigrate to lower-crime countries. Simply not a factor in the analysts of anything.

Aside fro the fact that crime rates are a complete fiction, for comparing one country with another. They reflect reporting efficiency, not criminal incidence. One could reasonably expect the number of crimes to be reflected by the incarceration rate, on the theory that at least some crimes are solved and successfully prosecuted. But the USA has 20x the incarceration rate of Nigeria, so how do we quantify the prevalence of crime in those two countries? If someone is the victim of a crime in Nigeria, do you think they call the police, who are perceived as an enemy to ba avoided? How, then, does a country count its crime rate?

Last edited by cebuan; 07-05-2018 at 01:37 AM..
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Old 07-05-2018, 07:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
Nobody in the world really cares about crime rates. Crime is a background risk everywhere, it is easy to tweak your lifestyle to keep out of the path of opportunistic criminals. The great majority of Americans live in urban metros that have pockets where the crime rate is high, and people deal with it -- nobody yearns to emigrate to lower-crime countries. Simply not a factor in the analysts of anything.

Aside fro the fact that crime rates are a complete fiction, for comparing one country with another. They reflect reporting efficiency, not criminal incidence. One could reasonably expect the number of crimes to be reflected by the incarceration rate, on the theory that at least some crimes are solved and successfully prosecuted. But the USA has 20x the incarceration rate of Nigeria, so how do we quantify the prevalence of crime in those two countries? If someone is the victim of a crime in Nigeria, do you think they call the police, who are perceived as an enemy to ba avoided? How, then, does a country count its crime rate?
A lot of people are fleeing Central America due to gang violence. Innocent people do get killed by crossfire from gang violence. Also in USA cities, in poor neighborhoods innocent people do get killed by gang violence as well, and crossfire from gang violence. I remember the 1980s when muggings were common in NYC and when people were leaving NYC due to various times of crime.

It is ridiculous to say only "Bad" people are victims of crime.

Parents sometimes struggle to move from where they are because their kids might be conscripted into gangs. Young girls get kidnapped and sold by pimps. There are very unsafe places where people move out of, if they can.

Crime has certainly gotten a lot worse in Venezuela, and large numbers who can afford it have already LEFT.

I've known Mexicans who were trying to get family members out of Mexico due to the crime situation there. Please don't tell these outright LIES that all everyone has to do is avoid bad people and there is no chance they can be victim of a crime. Please don't tell people safety isn't a factor in where they want to live.
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Old 07-05-2018, 12:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
As title says, what makes the Southern Cone region the most prosperous part of Latin America? Southern Cone refers to Chile, Argentina, Uruguay and Southern Brazil. What makes this region have higher HDI and GDP per capita than the rest of Latin America?

Incorrect. The country with the highest gdp per capita in LatAm is Panama. The countries with the highest growth are Peru, Bolivia, Paraguay and others. Hence, it is neither the wealthiest area, nor the most prosperous.

In any case, the Southern Cone is merely a geographical term. Grouping these countries together for sociocultural or political reasons would be pretty much arbitrary.
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Old 07-05-2018, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Canada
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Because the Southern cone is white and pure. The rest of Latin America is like Mordor.
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Old 07-05-2018, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
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Originally Posted by joacocanal View Post
Incorrect. The country with the highest gdp per capita in LatAm is Panama. The countries with the highest growth are Peru, Bolivia, Paraguay and others. Hence, it is neither the wealthiest area, nor the most prosperous.

In any case, the Southern Cone is merely a geographical term. Grouping these countries together for sociocultural or political reasons would be pretty much arbitrary.
Incorrect. Invalid use of statistics. The countries in the region rank 2nd,3rd,4th and 5th in GDP, which doesn't stop them from collectively comprising a "wealthy" region. Ethiopia has the fastest growing GDP in the world, which doesn't make it more prosperous than Norway or Switzerland. If you start from a base near zero, growth is not so impressive.

The southern cone countries are very "grouped", socioculturally. They regard the other Latin countries the way "grouped" USA/Canada regard Mexico.
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Old 07-05-2018, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post

It is ridiculous to say only "Bad" people are victims of crime.

Parents sometimes struggle to move from where they are because their kids might be conscripted into gangs. Young girls get kidnapped and sold by pimps. There are very unsafe places where people move out of, if they can.

.
It is ridiculous to quote me as having said that.

People in Latin America who fear local gang and criminal violence have the option of relocating in their own country, like North Americans do. Furthermore,"gang violence" is not quantifiable as "crime", it is paramilitary on a subnational level, between warring factions. Crime consists of individual acts by civilians.
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Old 07-05-2018, 07:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
Incorrect. Invalid use of statistics. The countries in the region rank 2nd,3rd,4th and 5th in GDP, which doesn't stop them from collectively comprising a "wealthy" region. Ethiopia has the fastest growing GDP in the world, which doesn't make it more prosperous than Norway or Switzerland. If you start from a base near zero, growth is not so impressive.

The southern cone countries are very "grouped", socioculturally. They regard the other Latin countries the way "grouped" USA/Canada regard Mexico.
Southern Brazil isn't a country, what are you talking about? If we were to list the wealthiest regions in LatAm, there are areas like Campeche in Mexico or Casanare in Colombia which are much wealthier than South Brazil. Actually, in Brazil, Rio de Janeiro, Sao Paulo and Distrito Federal have much higher gdp per capita than Southern Brazil.

For many decades Chile was far from being one of the wealthiest countries of LatAm. Other countries like Mexico or Venezuela held such place. Then it's arbitrary to say that is the most prosperous region, when it hasn't been for most part of history.

Prosperous means well off, but it also means "flourishing", "buoyant", "booming". Argentina's sociopolitical history is completely different than that of Chile, or any other LatAm country, for that matter. Uruguay too. Argentina is far from being one of the most prosperous LatAm countries, it has very serious economic issues. Uruguay or even Chile aren't prospering or growing to a greater degree than most other countries in the region either. Today they are, accidentally (considering they have nothing in common politically speaking), the three countries with the highest HDI in LatAm. It wasn't so in the past, it won't be so in a few years.

There isn't any basis to lump these countries together socioculturally speaking either. Whatever these countries have in common in terms of cultural practices, migration, sports or whatever, they also have it with other countries up north.
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Old 07-05-2018, 08:58 PM
Status: "Autumn is here!" (set 9 days ago)
 
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Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
Because the Southern cone is white and pure. The rest of Latin America is like Mordor.
You have a point that the Southern Cone is one of the whitest places in the world, but it's debatable if that's the reason for its prosperity.


https://brilliantmaps.com/european-ancestry/

Quote:
The map above shows the percentage of each country’s population that has some claim to European ancestry. Taken together, it could be argued that Europeans are the world’s largest diaspora, with an estimated population of over 480 million people.
https://brilliantmaps.com/european-ancestry/


In the greater scheme of things, Latin America as a whole is the wealthiest region of the entire developing world. It isn't as if the rest of the region is doing terribly bad by global standards. Only the developed world (which is overwhelmingly Western Europe and North America) is, on average, better off than Latin America as a whole.


http://www.imf.org/external/datamapp...C/WE?year=2018


http://www.imf.org/external/datamapp...C/WE?year=2018
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Old 07-06-2018, 02:13 AM
 
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Since Southern Brazil is not an independent country and therefore more difficult to compare with others, we can assume Southern Cone to mean only Chile, Argentina and Uruguay. These 3 countries have the highest HDI rankings and are in the top 5 Latin American countries with highest per capita GDP (PPP) consistently the past 25 years data. Chile is actually even ranked 1st in per capita GDP in some rankings now, 2nd in some (switching with Panama). I know Argentina is facing an economic downturn and had boom-bust cycles before, but with those data, the Southern Cone can still be considered the wealthiest region in Latin America (region being defined here as two or more adjacent countries grouped together with a name). I am interested if there are any particular reasons or if there is something among Southern Cone countries that make them more "prosperous" or wealthier than other Latin American countries. I am not interested in the nuances of the word "prosperous" at all.


The 3 countries are next to each other. Argentina and Chile share one of the longest borders in the world. Maybe the Andes does act as a natural barrier, but they should still have some things in common. I am not a Latin American expert, that's why I posted a question here, but I really have to doubt the credibility of any poster who claims that Argentina and Uruguay have no sociocultural similarities, and the grouping is arbitrary and merely geographical.
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