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View Poll Results: Should the Dominican Republic (be allowed to) join CARICOM?
Yes. 13 72.22%
No. 5 27.78%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-19-2018, 08:07 AM
 
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Upthere is correct, the CARICOM Free movement of people chapter has not been implemented. Only Skilled immigrants, Sports Persons, Musicians, Artists, Managers, Supervisors and other service providers can move with relatively freedom. The Visa free policies among Caricom Countries are not part of CARICOM but Bilateral agreements between each country. That has allowed most of the countries discriminate against HAITI.

CARICOM do not have control over tourist visas among the islands, thats up to every country to decide.

https://caricom.org/movement-of-people/


So yes Haiti is a full member of CARICOm that have been left out. Im Haitian just in case.


Bahamas made it clear that it will leave the CSME if CARICOM try to force them to allow free movement of Haitians, making clear that the CSME do not have the binding power to force them. Caricom has been very hypocritical about its treatment of Haiti, on one side talk about integration and on the other side keeps Caricom as an English speaking club, were they use loopholes to do not grant Haiti any rights.

Last edited by Snapshoot; 11-19-2018 at 08:22 AM..
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Old 11-19-2018, 09:45 AM
 
295 posts, read 181,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post

Upthere is correct, the CARICOM Free movement of people chapter has not been implemented. Only Skilled immigrants, Sports Persons, Musicians, Artists, Managers, Supervisors and other service providers can move with relatively freedom. The Visa free policies among Caricom Countries are not part of CARICOM but Bilateral agreements between each country. That has allowed most of the countries discriminate against HAITI.
Haitians have been migrating to CARICOM countries as well.

These people you named Sports Persons, Musicians, Artists, Managers, Supervisors and other service providers are allowed to move freely for obvious reasons being their career requires traveling and NOT facilitating squatting in a country,but it doesn't make much of a difference since many CARICOM holders do move about intranationally.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post

CARICOM does not have control over tourist visas among the islands, thats up to every country to decide.

https://caricom.org/movement-of-people/

CARICOM citizens don't travel to other countries on tourist Visas, they travel about moving with CARICOM Visas. That link you provided said this .The link also said described these workers moving about with ease , the ''Media Workers, Sports Persons, Musicians, Artists, Managers, Supervisors and other service providers'' are not required work visas they said nothing of tourist visas since thats not how CARICOM holders usually travel by.But these migrants travelling intranationally through the CARICOM need travel permits with their CARICOM Visa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post

So yes Haiti is a full member of CARICOm that have been left out. Im Haitian just in case.
Haiti has not been integrated for many reasons by the onus of CARICOM Bloc and the Haitian government.

So Haiti hasn't been left out,Haiti wouldn't get the abilities as a CARICOM country since it has not committed to the Caricom, Haiti was attempting to join the African Union some years ago, they couldn't of been that integrated..


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post

Bahamas made it clear that it will leave the CSME if CARICOM try to force them to allow free movement of Haitians, making clear that the CSME do not have the binding power to force them. Caricom has been very hypocritical about its treatment of Haiti, on one side talk about integration and on the other side keeps Caricom as an English speaking club, were they use loopholes to do not grant Haiti any rights.
Yea but thats because they already have been Haitians migrating to Bahamas (around 80,000), how much more do you expect them to take? Many countries don't want to be bombarded with migrants.

CARICOM countries like Trinidad wary of Jamaican and Guyanese migrants coming in , that doesn't mean the migration totally recedes with in the CARICOM .
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Old 11-19-2018, 09:51 AM
 
142 posts, read 34,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrizeWinner View Post
Haitians have been migrating to CARICOM countries as well.

These people you named Sports Persons, Musicians, Artists, Managers, Supervisors and other service providers are allowed to move freely for obvious reasons being their career requires traveling and NOT facilitating squatting in a country,but it doesn't make much of a difference since many CARICOM holders do move about intranationally.





CARICOM citizens don't travel to other countries on tourist Visas, they travel about moving with CARICOM Visas. That link you provided said this .The link also said this, the ''Media Workers, Sports Persons, Musicians, Artists, Managers, Supervisors and other service providers'' are not required work visas they said nothing of tourist visas since thats not how CARICOM holders usually travel.But these migrants travelling intranationally through the CARICOM need travel permits with their CARICOM Visa.


Haiti has not been integrated for many reasons by the onus of CARICOM Bloc and the Haitian government.

So Haiti hasn't been left out,Haiti wouldn't get the abilities as a CARICOM country since it has not committed to the Caricom, Haiti was attempting to join the African Union some years ago, they couldn't of been that integrated..




Yea but thats because they already have been Haitians migrating to Bahamas (around 80,000), how much more do you expect them to take? Many countries don't want to be bombarded with migrants.

CARICOM countries like Trinidad wary of Jamaican and Guyanese migrants coming in , that doesn't mean the migration totally recedes with in the CARICOM .

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? there is no such thing as caricom visa. What there is is a Certificate of Recognition of CARICOM Skills Qualification.
a Caricom Citizen must APPLY for the certificate before traveling.

The freedom to live and work throughout the CSME is granted by the Certificate of Recognition of CARICOM Skills Qualification (commonly called a CARICOM Skills Certificate or just a Skills Certificate). The Skills Certificate essentially replaces work permits and are obtained from the requisite ministry once all the essential documents/qualifications (which varies with each category of skilled persons) are handed in with an application. Is not that easy as just moving to another island, there is ton of paper work to do.


The vast majority of caricom citizens move about the island using tourist visas not work permits or certificates. The permit to enter another caricom country as a tourist is not granted by caricom but by individual bilateral agreements.

Once again Haiti is a Full member of CARICOM but caricom does not have the power to force its members to allow anyone to move about the islands, if they have the SKILLs they can APPLY for a certificate that will allow them to work in another caricom country. But traveling is 100% bilateral.


Example: if a Bahamian wants to go to Barbados, he will not need a visa because Bahamas and Barbados have a BILATERAL AGREEMENT not requiring visas to its citizens. if the same Bahamian wants to work in Barbados THEN he must APPLY for a CARICOM certificate (if he quality ) that will act as work permit. Caricom do not grant tourist visas, only grants a via to apply for certificate (a de facto work permit).

THIS IS WHY HAITI being a full member only has access to certificates, not to free movement. Haitians must apply for the certificates, while all others caricom citizens can move freely because they have bilateral agreements with each other.

Last edited by Snapshoot; 11-19-2018 at 10:15 AM..
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Old 11-19-2018, 09:54 AM
 
295 posts, read 181,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post
there is no such thing as caricom tourist visa.
Exactly .... why did you mention CARICOM tourist visa?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post

CARICOM do not have control over tourist visas among the islands, thats up to every country to decide.
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Old 11-19-2018, 11:08 AM
 
142 posts, read 34,153 times
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Originally Posted by PrizeWinner View Post
Exactly .... why did you mention CARICOM tourist visa?
CARICOM is more similar to NAFTA than to European Union. NAFTA also allows SKILLED workers to move about the 3 countries after they apply for NT visa (work permit) if they also have a college degree ect ect. Caricom offers a similar mechanism with the certificate. But all other Mexicans need a tourist visa to enter the US just as all other Haitians need a visa to visit some of the other CARICOM countries. While Canadians do not need visas to enter the US they can come about as tourist just as a Bahamian would do in Barbados.


Lots of people see Caricom as a very close union akin to the EU but is not even remotely as close. all countries retain alot of discretion about who they let in. Haitians can travel without visa to many CARICOM countries (including Barbados) but need a visa to Bahamas. Trinidad deports Jamaicans all the time. ect ect

Caricom is an imperfect union.
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Old 11-19-2018, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,577 posts, read 2,440,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upthere22 View Post
You dont get to treat CARICOM as a unit or as individual countries when is convenient.
Haiti is part of caricom and the fact is that more caricom citizens live in DR than the other way around at a rate of 20 to 1.
Just did. Haitians have been pouring into the DR before they were CARICOM members. It just is what it is. Other islands are generally not looking to go to the DR because the standard of living isnít high enough.
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Old 11-19-2018, 06:34 PM
 
295 posts, read 181,624 times
Reputation: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post
Do you have a reading comprehension problem? there is no such thing as caricom visa. What there is is a Certificate of Recognition of CARICOM Skills Qualification.
a Caricom Citizen must APPLY for the certificate before traveling.
.That's completely incorrect on what you typed.The citizens from CARICOM countries do use what is considered a CARICOM VISA .


Quote:


https://caricom.org/media-center/com...ial-visa-facts


CARICOM SPECIAL VISA FACTS

Period of validity

The CARICOM Special Visa is valid for entry into the CARICOM Single Domestic Space from 1 February 2007-15 May 2007.

Countries comprising the Single Domestic Space which will accept the CARICOM SPECIAL VISA:

Antigua and Barbuda Jamaica
Barbados St. Kitts and Nevis
Dominica Saint Lucia
Grenada St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Guyana Trinidad and Tobago


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post


The freedom to live and work throughout the CSME is granted by the Certificate of Recognition of CARICOM Skills Qualification (commonly called a CARICOM Skills Certificate or just a Skills Certificate). The Skills Certificate essentially replaces work permits and are obtained from the requisite ministry once all the essential documents/qualifications (which varies with each category of skilled persons) are handed in with an application. Is not that easy as just moving to another island, there is ton of paper work to do.

LOL , you clearly are not in the know on how traveling through the CARICOM works. Not all citizens have to apply for Certificate of Recognition.Do you know how much under qualified citizens have moving about other islands with not so much suitable skills? The thing is some of these CARICOM citizens do end up finding work on the islands but at the same time there are many that end up squatting unemployed on these islands.




Travel permits do not require much paper work to move about the CARICOM ,and you don't always need work visas, this is why some countries like Trinidad and Barbados have complained about foreigners from Caricom nations in their country.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post



The vast majority of caricom citizens move about the island using tourist visas not work permits or certificates. The permit to enter another caricom country as a tourist is not granted by caricom but by individual bilateral agreements.
Do you really think they are able to stay on islands for months and even years with tourist visas?

Citizens from CARICOM nations do have CARICOM passports and visas that come with special privileges period, has nothing to do with bilateral agreements.



What bilateral agreements did Haiti have with the Bahamas to end up having 80,000 citizens there?!







Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post

Once again Haiti is a Full member of CARICOM but caricom does not have the power to force its members to allow anyone to move about the islands, if they have the SKILLs they can APPLY for a certificate that will allow them to work in another caricom country. But traveling is 100% bilateral.
@ bolded Not true.

There countries that might of made certain specifications to allow certain foreign nationals a certain time in their country, but CARICOM PASSPORT does allow free movement and more permitted time for stay on their visas.You are probably uninformed or not in the know.


Quote:

https://www.revolvy.com/page/CARICOM-passport


The CARICOM passport is a passport document issued by the 15 member states of the Caribbean Community (CARICOM) for their citizens. It can be used both for intra-regional and international travel. The passport was created to facilitate intra-region travel; however, citizens of the OECS that are citizens from Antigua and Barbuda, Dominica, Grenada, St. Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia and St. Vincent and the Grenadines may use a member-state issued drivers licence, national identification card, voters registration card or social security card for travel within the OECS area.[1]


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post

Example: if a Bahamian wants to go to Barbados, he will not need a visa because Bahamas and Barbados have a BILATERAL AGREEMENT not requiring visas to its citizens. if the same Bahamian wants to work in Barbados THEN he must APPLY for a CARICOM certificate (if he quality ) that will act as work permit. Caricom do not grant tourist visas, only grants a via to apply for certificate (a de facto work permit).



I never said Caricom grants work VISAs you were the one that brought upCARICOM tourist Visas and for what?

Maybe Bahamas and Barbados do have a bilateral agreement that doesn't require Visas for both citizens, but other Caricom nationals can enter their countries with ease using a Caricom passport.And yes depending on what kind of stay they applied like maybe work status can get a work permit.But even travel permits allow them to stay longer than other non-CARICOM nationals.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post

THIS IS WHY HAITI being a full member only has access to certificates, not to free movement. Haitians must apply for the certificates, while all others caricom citizens can move freely because they have bilateral agreements with each other.
Haiti or Haitian nationals have had an ease of movement through out the Caribbean as a matter of fact.

They have shown up in Bahamas (with 80,000 or ), Jamaica, and Guyana.
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Old 11-19-2018, 06:47 PM
 
295 posts, read 181,624 times
Reputation: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post
CARICOM is more similar to NAFTA than to European Union. NAFTA also allows SKILLED workers to move about the 3 countries after they apply for NT visa (work permit) if they also have a college degree ect ect. Caricom offers a similar mechanism with the certificate. But all other Mexicans need a tourist visa to enter the US just as all other Haitians need a visa to visit some of the other CARICOM countries. While Canadians do not need visas to enter the US they can come about as tourist just as a Bahamian would do in Barbados.
The CARICOM can issue a work visa but that doesn't mean its always required for a Caricom citizens to travel.

LOL at thinking Mexicans just need a tourist visa to enter? there are other means of visa statuses Mexicans use to enter the US.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post


Lots of people see Caricom as a very close union akin to the EU but is not even remotely as close. all countries retain alot of discretion about who they let in.
Again you contradicted yourself. How is as you said the''CARICOM very close union akin to the EU but not remotely close''?


The countries of the EU will even deport foreign nationals from certain EU countries as well for example the UK will do this for Poles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post

Haitians can travel without visa to many CARICOM countries (including Barbados) but need a visa to Bahamas. Trinidad deports Jamaicans all the time. ect ect

Caricom is an imperfect union.
You contradicted yourself again. First of all to legally enter a country you need a visa of some sort. Secondly foreign nationals from a country depends on bilateral agreements how are Haitians able to enter the country with out a visa?
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Old 11-20-2018, 07:30 AM
 
142 posts, read 34,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrizeWinner View Post
The CARICOM can issue a work visa but that doesn't mean its always required for a Caricom citizens to travel.

LOL at thinking Mexicans just need a tourist visa to enter? there are other means of visa statuses Mexicans use to enter the US.



Again you contradicted yourself. How is as you said the''CARICOM very close union akin to the EU but not remotely close''?


The countries of the EU will even deport foreign nationals from certain EU countries as well for example the UK will do this for Poles.



You contradicted yourself again. First of all to legally enter a country you need a visa of some sort. Secondly foreign nationals from a country depends on bilateral agreements how are Haitians able to enter the country with out a visa?
You truly need to go back to school to take reading comprehension, CARICOM do not issue visas. and there is not legal frame for them do so. Countries will honor issuing a visa if the person qualifies under the narrow categories on the certificate. ALL OTHER VISAS ARE BILATERAL NOT CARICOM RELATED.

The mexican thing was an example to try to get the idea into your brain but, that didnt work. of course there are other types of visas. But thats not the point, why is so hard for you to get that simple idea?


"Again you contradicted yourself. How is as you said the''CARICOM very close union akin to the EU but not remotely close''?"

what is that you dont undestand about that sentence?

"Lots of people see Caricom as a very close union akin to the EU but is not even remotely as close."

did you really did not understand that sentence? ................oh god
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Old 11-20-2018, 08:34 AM
 
295 posts, read 181,624 times
Reputation: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post

You truly need to go back to school to take reading comprehension, CARICOM do not issue visas. and there is not legal frame for them do so. Countries will honor issuing a visa if the person qualifies under the narrow categories on the certificate. ALL OTHER VISAS ARE BILATERAL NOT CARICOM RELATED.
Bro you just need to stop, you said there was no such thing as a CARICOM passport or a CARICOM Visa, I provided proof that there is. What proof do you have there isn't?

Visas can be bilateral but its not the case with between most CARICOM naitons.

Most people don't qualify for the certificate of recognition, this is why you have some immigrants are still able to travel.Trust me when I say countries like Bahamas ,Barbados,and Trinidad want a lot of immigrants queued for deportation upon entry at Customs, but can't because of the CARICOM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post

The mexican thing was an example to try to get the idea into your brain but, that didnt work. of course there are other types of visas. But thats not the point, why is so hard for you to get that simple idea?
The Mexican example was nothing but ignorance on your part,since you assumed most Mexicans come to the US on a tourist Visas. You don't even seem to understand how Visas work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post

what is that you dont undestand about that sentence?

"Lots of people see Caricom as a very close union akin to the EU but is not even remotely as close."

did you really did not understand that sentence? ................oh god

Its one of the dumbest statements I've come across on here.You can't say the CARICOM is close to the EU then say its not even remotely close, YOU COMPLETELY CONTRADICTED YOURSELF with the statement. Its clear to see.

Might we add the CARICOM is a bloc not similar to the EU for many reasons one being not interlocked economy,budgets, or a common currency like the EU.But I digress.

I think you need to take your own advice about going back to school.

Last edited by PrizeWinner; 11-20-2018 at 08:46 AM..
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