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View Poll Results: Should the Dominican Republic (be allowed to) join CARICOM?
Yes. 13 72.22%
No. 5 27.78%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-10-2018, 12:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post

If we were to look at migration rates and brain drain rates between the DR and the CARICOM countries,d of time.
Tell you what. When you can show that CARICOM citizens (aside from Haitians) are flocking to the DR then we can chat about how superior the DR is.

There is already a free trade agreement between the DR and CARICOM and yet there is little trade. Guess what. What little trade there is has been T&T companies exporting to the DR.

My friend the biggest import from the DR to most of CARICOM are sex workers. You mightn't want to accept this but it is true.
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 908Boi View Post
You're correct. But I personally would not want to be poor in DR, much rather be poor in the Anglophone Caribbean (sans Guyana)
This is why the poor of the DR leave for the anglophone Caribbean, EVEN Guyana. They apparently agree with you.

Now as to migration. He always raises this. The migration of Nigerian and Ghanaian professionals is higher than from some places like Chad. Does this mean that they are less developed? No it means that they have a culture of migration so a decision to migrate to a distant land is easier! Since slavery ended West Indians have been migrating.

I guess soon he will be claiming that Puerto Rico is less developed than the DR given that their brain drain is considerably higher. And he better not cite a hurricane as one might slice right through the DR with equally devastating impacts.
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:21 PM
 
Location: DC metropolitan area
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Originally Posted by caribny View Post
I am always amused by these Dominican elites who think that they are better than the rest of the Caribbean. They just don't understand that the DR isnt seen as this wildly progressive nation that people wish to emulate. In fact much of their economic growth is motivated by their low wages. I don't think that anyone is rushing to the DR because they think that their labor force is highly skilled
I've lived in Puerto Rico and St Lucia and have traveled throughout the Caribbean from the Bahamas to Suriname.

To be fair, it is very common for people of one island (place) to think they are better than people from some other place within the Caribbean.

Puerto Ricans look down on Dominicans (of the DR). Guadeloupeans look down on Dominicans (of Dominica), Martinicans look down on St Lucians, Bajans also look down on St Lucians, Cubans look down on Puerto Ricans, St Lucians look down on Jamaicans, etc... not everyone in everyplace, but the attitudes exist.

Last edited by 2ner; 09-10-2018 at 01:21 PM..
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 2ner View Post
I've lived in Puerto Rico and St Lucia and have traveled to the Bahamas, the Dominican Republic, Aruba, Guadeloupe, Dominica, Martinique, Trinidad and Tobago, Guyana, and Suriname. To be fair, it is very common for people of one island (place) to think they are better than people from some other place within the Caribbean.

Puerto Ricans look down on Dominicans (of the DR). Guadeloupeans look down on Dominicans (of Dominica), Martinicans look down on St Lucians, Bajans also look down on St Lucians, Cubans look down on Puerto Ricans, St Lucians look down on Jamaicans, etc... not everyone in everyplace, but the attitudes exist.


The basis of people looking down is grounded in some notion of economic strength usually measured by migration flows. People migrate to societies where they can improve their living standards and assist relatives back home. They usually accept substandard wages and living arrangements, so the locals think little of them.

Puerto Ricans look down on Dominicans as huge numbers of the latter live there. Ditto for Guadeloupe and Dominica, Martinique/Barbados towards St Lucia. Everyone looks down on Guyanese as like Dominicans (both Dominica and DR) and Haitians, and now Jamaicans, they flock everywhere.


Its a long time that Guyanese and Jamaicans have expressed superiority over the rest of the Caribbean, now that they need those places for decent paying jobs.



So the fact that ELITE Dominicans feel superior to the rest of the Caribbean is ironic. Ordinary Dominicans don't carry these attitudes as they are fully aware of how hard life in the DR can be.
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
I can tell you don't travel around the Caribbean. The DR is swamped by Haitians. Dominicans swamp almost every other Caribbean island. Any Dominican who approaches CARICOM with the notion that it is superior deserves to be told that they shouldn't be admitted. DR has all of the challenges that other Caribbean nations have.
Those are the obvious immigrants I was talking about, DR also has Venezuelans coming there. You the know it all do understand that whether you like it or not it would be more of a problem for the DR then help for them.

No one here is talking about superiority notion either we are talking about what works economically for these think before you type, because you really go on a tangent for nothing.I hope you really start posting less and start reading more,cause your rants are a headache and you are literally spamming these pages.


Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post

Puerto Ricans look down on Dominicans as huge numbers of the latter live there. Ditto for Guadeloupe and Dominica, Martinique/Barbados towards St Lucia. Everyone looks down on Guyanese as like Dominicans (both Dominica and DR) and Haitians, and now Jamaicans, they flock everywhere.


Its a long time that Guyanese and Jamaicans have expressed superiority over the rest of the Caribbean, now that they need those places for decent paying jobs.


This is not true the only place were people look down on Guyanese and Jamaicans in other islands is the internet. Of course Guyanese have problems and face discrimination in Trinidad but its not so much to the point were its like Irish living in London or Christians in Syria and Egypt. It might happen to a lesser to a degree in Barbados but not forth right.

Many people on these islands are not exactly well to do either, so they can't have much of pompous snotty attitude either.

When me in my people where in Bridgetown we did not get any snark remarks or mistreatment.Like I said Guyanese like you have an inferiority complex about your background.

Last edited by PrizeWinner; 09-10-2018 at 01:13 PM..
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Old 09-10-2018, 01:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PrizeWinner View Post

When me in my people where in Bridgetown we did not get any snark remarks or mistreatment.Like I said Guyanese like you have an inferiority complex about your background.
I don't even go to Barbados, so you really don't know me enough to comment.

I suggest that you refer instead to those Guyanese who complain about how Guyanese, yes those who do NOT have US citizenship, are treated in that island, as well as elsewhere. Do you even know that Guyanese complain about a special "Guyana Bench" where Guyanese (and now Jamaicans) are dumped? Yes those who do NOT arrive with a US passport or a green card. Trinidadians do NOT complain about this because Barbadian authorities do not disrespect them. They do not disrespect them because fewer try to migrate to Barbados without work permits.


YOUR HERO Jagdeo was whining about how Guyanese were treated in CARICOM. Now accept this as the gospel truth now that you know that the owner of the PPP said this.

A true sign of stupidity is when an man has an opinion confined to their own situation! You just cannot think outside of your own situation.


As to Venezuela. How are they treated now that they are swamping their neighbors? In fact there has even been violence directed towards them in Brazil and Colombia. Yes Mr. "Know it ALL" address that fact. When Colombians swarmed Venezuela they were seen as inferior. Now the shoe is on the other foot.
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Old 09-10-2018, 01:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ner View Post
I've lived in Puerto Rico and St Lucia and have traveled throughout the Caribbean from the Bahamas to Suriname.

To be fair, it is very common for people of one island (place) to think they are better than people from some other place within the Caribbean.

Puerto Ricans look down on Dominicans (of the DR). Guadeloupeans look down on Dominicans (of Dominica), Martinicans look down on St Lucians, Bajans also look down on St Lucians, Cubans look down on Puerto Ricans, St Lucians look down on Jamaicans, etc... not everyone in everyplace, but the attitudes exist.
This is true, including the part about Aruba vs. Curacao which has a racial component like you stated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrizeWinner View Post
Those are the obvious immigrants I was talking about, DR also has Venezuelans coming there. You the know it all do understand that whether you like it or not it would be more of a problem for the DR then help for them.

No one here is talking about superiority notion either we are talking about what works economically for these think before you type, because you really go on a tangent for nothing.I hope you really start posting less and start reading more,cause your rants are a headache and you are literally spamming these pages.



This is not true the only place were people look down on Guyanese and Jamaicans in other islands is the internet. Of course Guyanese have problems and face discrimination in Trinidad but its not so much to the point were its like Irish living in London or Christians in Syria and Egypt. It might happen to a lesser to a degree in Barbados but not forth right.

Many people on these islands are not exactly well to do either, so they can't have much of pompous snotty attitude either.

When me in my people where in Bridgetown we did not get any snark remarks or mistreatment.Like I said Guyanese like you have an inferiority complex about your background.
I don't know about Guyana but I know that many "small islanders" are not fans of Jamaicans coming to their islands. This issue of Jamaica vs. "small islands" does exist to an extent in real life outside the Internet. I've even seen it in my own family.
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Old 09-10-2018, 01:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 908Boi View Post
This is true, including the part about Aruba vs. Curacao which has a racial component like you stated.

I don't know about Guyana but I know that many "small islanders" are not fans of Jamaicans coming to their islands. This issue of Jamaica vs. "small islands" does exist to an extent in real life outside the Internet. I've even seen it in my own family.
There is animosity towards migrants from Jamaica, Haiti, DR, and Guyana in many of the Eastern Caribbean islands. Now those of us who arrive with our US passports as tourists don't experience that, but many who must live in those places do. Especially when the local police come and round them up.

Sometime ago a Minister of Home Affairs was virtually breathing fire when he was screaming about the fact that Jamaicans and Guyanese don't just have the right to stay in T&T just because they feel like. That man is now Commissioner of Police.

We cannot live in NYC or Toronto were we are all one happy "West Indian family," but in the Caribbean itself its not the case. I don't know how open we are to those from non English speaking Caribbean nations even when we do migrate to those North American cities.


I also suspect that whatever people from Aruba and Curacao think of each other, they both turn down their noses at immigrants from (the usual places) Jamaica, Haiti and the DR. I don't think too many Guyanese go to those islands.
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Old 09-10-2018, 01:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by caribny View Post
There is animosity towards migrants from Jamaica, Haiti, DR, and Guyana in many of the Eastern Caribbean islands. Now those of us who arrive with our US passports as tourists don't experience that, but many who must live in those places do. Especially when the local police come and round them up.

Sometime ago a Minister of Home Affairs was virtually breathing fire when he was screaming about the fact that Jamaicans and Guyanese don't just have the right to stay in T&T just because they feel like. That man is now Commissioner of Police.

We cannot live in NYC or Toronto were we are all one happy "West Indian family," but in the Caribbean itself its not the case. I don't know how open we are to those from non English speaking Caribbean nations even when we do migrate to those North American cities.


I also suspect that whatever people from Aruba and Curacao think of each other, they both turn down their noses at immigrants from (the usual places) Jamaica, Haiti and the DR. I don't think too many Guyanese go to those islands.
The ABC islands definitely look down on immigrants, especially Spanish speaking ones, who tend to be Dominicans, Colombians, and especially now, Venezuelans. It is thus always funny when I see Dominicans talk about being richer than the rest of the Caribbean when the worst areas of many of the other islands are full of Dominicans and Dominicans do not have the greatest reputation. Both countries on Hispaniola are viewed as lesser.


And to make this discussion more interesting, the majority of Dominicans abroad in the ABC islands are black
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Old 09-10-2018, 02:10 PM
Status: "Hope is last to lose it..." (set 2 hours ago)
 
5,205 posts, read 8,035,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 908Boi View Post
You're correct. But I personally would not want to be poor in DR, much rather be poor in the Anglophone Caribbean (sans Guyana)
That’s your perogative.

I was trying to find the updated version, but I don’t have time right this moment. For now I’ll leave it with this data from 2005 of the percentage of the population in each country living in slum conditions.

Back then only 2 CARICOM countries (Grenada and St Lucia) had a smaller percentage of its population living in slum conditions compared to the DR. Keep in mind this is from 2005, poverty levels have decline since then in the DR at a much faster pace than in most countries. It goes without saying that the percentage of people living in slum conditions has also declined significantly. Once I have the time I’ll bring the updated data.

The black line is the average percentage for Latin America and the Caribbean.


https://issuu.com/poderesip/docs/solacc_2012_web/64

Why would you not prefer to be poor in Guyana but would prefer in say Jamaica? Most of Jamaica’s population was living in slum like conditions in 2005 and given its stagnant economy since that time, the likelihood is high that most still live like that?

The same question could be asked regarding any CARICOM countries except Grenada and Saint Lucia vs DR. Even Trinidad had a higher percentage of its people living in less than optimal conditions than the DR, and Trinidad has oil.

Like I said before, the leaders of CARICOM are aware of what is truly happening. They know the DR can overrun their economies, especially since the countries the DR has the most favorable economic advantages in terms of exporting successfully are, precisely, its Caribbean neighbors.
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