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View Poll Results: Should the Dominican Republic (be allowed to) join CARICOM?
Yes. 13 72.22%
No. 5 27.78%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-10-2018, 02:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
That’s your perogative.

I was trying to find the updated version, but I don’t have time right this moment. For now I’ll leave it with this data from 2005 of the percentage of the population in each country living in slum conditions.

Back then only 2 CARICOM countries (Grenada and St Lucia) has a smaller percentage of its population living in slum conditions compared to the DR. Keep in mind this is from 2005, poverty levels have decline since then in the DR at a much faster pace than in most countries. It goes without saying that the percentage of people living in slum conditions has also declined significantly. Once I have the time I’ll bring the updated data.


https://issuu.com/poderesip/docs/solacc_2012_web/64

Why would you not prefer to be poor in Guyana but would prefer in say Jamaica? Most of Jamaica’s population was living in slum like conditions in 2005 and given its stagnant economy since that time, the likelihood is high that most still live like that?

The same question could be asked regarding any CARICOM countries except Grenada and Saint Lucia vs DR. Even Trinidad had a higher percentage of its people living in less than optimal conditions than the DR, and Trinidad has oil.

Like I said before, the leaders of CARICOM are aware of what is truly happening. They know the DR can overrun their economies, especially since the countries the DR has the most favorable economic advantages in terms of exporting successfully are, precisely, its Caribbean neighbors.
I think I disagree on whether the majority of Jamaica lives in "slum like conditions." That has not been my experience.

EDIT:

I did a bit more research and Jamaica's urban slum rate is about 60%. I haven't found anything about total country slum rates or rural slum rates.

To be fair, when I think of DR's poverty I'm thinking of the rural areas.

Last edited by 908Boi; 09-10-2018 at 02:35 PM..
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Old 09-10-2018, 02:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 908Boi View Post
The ABC islands definitely look down on immigrants, especially Spanish speaking ones, who tend to be Dominicans, Colombians, and especially now, Venezuelans. It is thus always funny when I see Dominicans talk about being richer than the rest of the Caribbean

when the worst areas of many of the other islands are full of Dominicans and Dominicans do not have the greatest reputation. Both countries on Hispaniola are viewed as lesser.


And to make this discussion more interesting, the majority of Dominicans abroad in the ABC islands are black
The majority of Dominicans who migrate to these islands come from the absolute lowest strata of Dominican society, so it's not surprising that they're black. Now what's more interesting is that many of these migrants also have West Indian "Cocolo" ancestry or Haitian ancestry. Almost all of them come from the eastern region of DR, which is by far the least developed region in the DR outside the Haitian border areas. The Dominican migrants in these islands don't even represent 1% of the DR's population. It would make for a more interesting discussion if these islands where receiving lighter skin Dominicans from the Central Cibao region instead of just a bunch of "Cocolos". Now I would like to see some actual videos of these migrants who live in these islands, and hear what their accents sound like.
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Old 09-10-2018, 02:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
That’s your perogative.


Like I said before, the leaders of CARICOM are aware of what is truly happening. They know the DR can overrun their economies, especially since the countries the DR has the most favorable economic advantages in terms of exporting successfully are, precisely, its Caribbean neighbors.


Why don't you answer the fact Dominicans rush to the English speaking Caribbean yet people from the English speaking Caribbean don't flock to the DR.

People have a way of finding out which countries offer them better opportunities. I trust their judgements more than I do your statistics.

Btw the impoverished holes in the Caribbean are Haiti, DR, Jamaica and Guyana, based on the migration flows.

I note that you don't look at poverty conditions in the smaller places. You see people don't care about GDP data when they migrate. They care about whether they will earn enough to improve their living standards and the evidence is that Dominicans see other parts of the Caribbean is offering a better opportunity.


http://www.thestkittsnevisobserver.c...on-immigrants/


100 Dominicans arrested in ONE raid in St Kitts. This for the ones who are illegally there.
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Old 09-10-2018, 02:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banilejo View Post
The majority of Dominicans who migrate to these islands come from the absolute lowest strata of Dominican society, so it's not surprising that they're black. Now what's more interesting is that many of these migrants also have West Indian "Cocolo" ancestry or Haitian ancestry. Almost all of them come from the eastern region of DR, which is by far the least developed region in the DR outside the Haitian border areas. The Dominican migrants in these islands don't even represent 1% of the DR's population. It would make for a more interesting discussion if these islands where receiving lighter skin Dominicans from the Central Cibao region instead of just a bunch of "Cocolos". Now I would like to see some actual videos of these migrants who live in these islands, and hear what their accents sound like.
I would have to research for that since if those videos, exist there is probably not many.

https://slidex.tips/download/sabor-q...-immigrants-in

This is a link to a paper that profiles some Dominicans in Curacao.
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Old 09-10-2018, 02:45 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 14 days ago)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ner View Post
I've lived in Puerto Rico and St Lucia and have traveled throughout the Caribbean from the Bahamas to Suriname.

To be fair, it is very common for people of one island (place) to think they are better than people from some other place within the Caribbean.

Puerto Ricans look down on Dominicans (of the DR). Guadeloupeans look down on Dominicans (of Dominica), Martinicans look down on St Lucians, Bajans also look down on St Lucians, Cubans look down on Puerto Ricans, St Lucians look down on Jamaicans, etc... not everyone in everyplace, but the attitudes exist.
Its part of human nature. Take any country in the world and you will notice most have issues with some of their neighbors.

Its also part of human nature to get used to the ‘status quo’ of things and become reticent to accepting the fast changes that are taking place, especially when those changes imply a reversal of those that have been relatively better off with those that were not.

To mention one example, when the US was becoming a global power, Great Britain had issues with that. The evidence is in the newspapers of the era when in London downplaying the rising US was a way of protecting the British national pride (which was based on being a global power). It was once the rise of the US was complete that the British gave up downplaying the fact that the US took Britain’s place regarding global power.

Another example was the rise of Singapore, which for a long time made the Malaysians hessitant to acknowledge. Malaysia’s reaction made sense when we take into account that they kicked out Singapore from their national union because they thought things were never going to work. To forcibly kick out a territory because it was believed to be domed to failure and then see it quickly rise from its extreme poverty to becoming one of the richest place on the planet, its a very strong punch on the national ego.

The same story repeats itself through out the ages and the world, and the Caribbean is no exception to this. Why? Human nature.
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Old 09-10-2018, 02:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banilejo View Post
The majority of Dominicans who migrate to these islands come from the absolute lowest strata of Dominican society, so it's not surprising that they're black.
So now we have several answers.


1. To be poor and black in the DR isnt a good thing. Its better to be poor and black in an English speaking small island, even if one speaks English poorly.

2. To be poor in the DR is more likely if you are black.


And then folks wonder why majority black nations just don't trust the DR.

Btw most of those "cocolos" are the GRANDkids of the migrants as you will recall that migration ended by 1930. So you are telling me that after all this time life for those people, most of whom do NOT speak English, is quite hard.


I suggest that white elite Dominicans stop asking why CARICOM gov'ts don't trust Dominican elites. The answer is quite evident.
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Old 09-10-2018, 02:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
The same story repeats itself through out the ages and the world, and the Caribbean is no exception to this. Why? Human nature.
There is a DR CARICOM Free Trade Agreement yet one doesn't see Dominican products swamping any where in the English speaking Caribbean.


Now I know that you are offended by the fact that these little black islands offer more for their people than does the DR. In fact a sharp turn in events from 100 years ago when the DR was where people from these islands fled.

So yes some people do in fact have a problem when things change. Now the DR is the country where people think that wages are low and poverty abounds.
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 908Boi View Post
I would have to research for that since if those videos, exist there is probably not many.

https://slidex.tips/download/sabor-q...-immigrants-in

This is a link to a paper that profiles some Dominicans in Curacao.

Yeah, that's my whole point, these people are insignificant numerically. Regardless of whether they're actual Dominicans, Black Cocolo descendants, or Haitians, I have yet to see an actual video documentary or even a small report of these migrants. People always talk about this DR migrant community scattered around the Caribbean, but they're like almost invisible, nobody can show me one single video of these migrants living in these islands.
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banilejo View Post
Yeah, that's my whole point, these people are insignificant numerically. Regardless of whether they're actual Dominicans, Black Cocolo descendants, or Haitians, I have yet to see an actual video documentary or even a small report of these migrants. People always talk about this DR migrant community scattered around the Caribbean, but they're like almost invisible, nobody can show me one single video of these migrants living in these islands.
1) They are Dominicans. Despite what you may think, we can tell the difference between someone from Haiti and someone from DR. It is always funny when Dominicans online always try to dispute whether someone is "really" Dominican when someone brings up something that reflects negatively on DR/Dominicans by bringing up "cocolos" migrations from the early 1900s. ("cocolo" is a racist, pejorative term btw) or Haitian migration, as if Dominicans cannot be black.
2) A simple google search will provide evidence to the thousands of Dominicans living in the rest of Caribbean. The very link I posted will even identify the neighborhoods in Willemstad, Curacao where they live. Just because there may or may not be a Youtube video about it does not mean that something does not exist.
3) This superiority complex amongst Dominicans toward us "cocolos" is hilarious when you look at the reality.
4) Saying DR immigrants are "almost invisible" in the ABC islands shows that you clearly have never been to any of the islands.
Here are links that show the presence of Dominicans in the ABC islands:
http://arubademographics.com/wp-cont...n-of-Aruba.pdf
Demography of Curaçao Census 2011 - Population publications - Population - Website - CBS
https://www.caribjournal.com/2012/02...nding-father/#
https://esa.un.org/miggmgprofiles/in...es/Curacao.pdf
http://www.nvdemografie.nl/sites/def...rtje_groot.pdf
https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2016/5...to-immigration

5) The facts are that there is a Dominican diaspora in the Caribbean, many of whom are sex workers, low income, and often looked down upon by locals.
6) The opposite is not true in the 21st century. You will not find many immigrants from the English, French (sans Haiti), or Dutch Caribbean in DR.
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Old 09-10-2018, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Earth
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I think the Caribbean should be americanized except for jerk chicken and maduros and annexed. We should be growing all our fruits that we import and sugar.
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