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View Poll Results: Should the Dominican Republic (be allowed to) join CARICOM?
Yes. 13 72.22%
No. 5 27.78%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-10-2018, 06:23 PM
 
295 posts, read 181,624 times
Reputation: 85

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 908Boi View Post
This is true, including the part about Aruba vs. Curacao which has a racial component like you stated.

I don't know about Guyana but I know that many "small islanders" are not fans of Jamaicans coming to their islands. This issue of Jamaica vs. "small islands" does exist to an extent in real life outside the Internet. I've even seen it in my own family.
Not liking and prejudice are too different things,Jamaicans may have a reputation but for the most part when they travel to other islands they are not ridiculed so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
There is animosity towards migrants from Jamaica, Haiti, DR, and Guyana in many of the Eastern Caribbean islands. Now those of us who arrive with our US passports as tourists don't experience that, but many who must live in those places do. Especially when the local police come and round them up.

.
That goes for any outsiders group group arriving in a country in too much successive waves, they will be flagged by immigration office and be under a magnifying glass to see if they can get in. That doesn't mean the immigrant group is looked as lesser than, its common sense when an immigrant group is growing too enormous ,the paranoia in national security will arise.
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Old 09-10-2018, 07:50 PM
 
18 posts, read 5,653 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by 908Boi View Post
1) They are Dominicans. Despite what you may think, we can tell the difference between someone from Haiti and someone from DR. It is always funny when Dominicans online always try to dispute whether someone is "really" Dominican when someone brings up something that reflects negatively on DR/Dominicans by bringing up "cocolos" migrations from the early 1900s. ("cocolo" is a racist, pejorative term btw) or Haitian migration, as if Dominicans cannot be black.
Listen, I don't really care what they are, nor do I think they "reflect" anything about DR. Like I said their numbers are INSIGNIFICANT in proportion to the DR's population size. DR is a country of over 10 million people, and is divided by 31 provinces and distinct regions, all with different histories, demographics, and prosperity levels. My hometown alone has a larger population size than most of these CARICOM member states, and I don't know of anyone from my town or province who has ever migrated to any of these islands. Almost all of the people who are migrating are from the East region of DR, which of course also happens to be the poorest and blackest region of the country due to historical reasons, it was a very isolated and under-developed part of the country until recently. It has improved with the rise of the tourism industry in Punta Cana, but most people in the area are still much poorer than in the rest of DR. It's also the least populated region in the country. The majority of the Dominican population is concentrated in the Santo Domingo metro area, in the south, and in the Central Cibao region in the north. Those are the two main population centres.







Quote:
2) A simple google search will provide evidence to the thousands of Dominicans living in the rest of Caribbean. The very link I posted will even identify the neighborhoods in Willemstad, Curacao where they live. Just because there may or may not be a Youtube video about it does not mean that something does not exist.
How many "thousands" of Dominicans are you talking about here, even if there where a hundred-thousand Dominicans living in these small islands that still wouldn't even represent 1% of the DR's total population. And you still can't show me a single video of this supposedly large Dominican community. You know there is a YouTube video for damn near every thing now, I can show you videos of Dominicans living in places as far away as Japan. lol yet you can find a single video of these Dominican migrants. I'm very curious to see what these people sound like and what they look like.


Quote:
3) This superiority complex amongst Dominicans toward us "cocolos" is hilarious when you look at the reality.
4) Saying DR immigrants are "almost invisible" in the ABC islands shows that you clearly have never been to any of the islands.
Here are links that show the presence of Dominicans in the ABC islands:

Elaborate and tell me what is the reality from your limited perspective? Are you going to pretend that every country in the CARICOM community is at the same economic level or is as developed as oil-rich Trinidad. The reality is DR has a larger GDP in total than every CARICOM member combined. DR also has a higher GDP (PPP) PER CAPITA than the majority of these CARICOM member states, so your entire argument is based on the outliers like Trinidad and the ABC islands, etc. The vast majority of these island countries are very poor and under-developed. Haiti, Jamaica, Dominica, Guyana, Belize, Suriname, Saint Kitts, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Saint Lucia, Montserrat, Grenada all have a lower GDP per capita than DR, so your entire argument here is based on the exceptions to the rule.





Quote:
5) The facts are that there is a Dominican diaspora in the Caribbean, many of whom are sex workers, low income, and often looked down upon by locals.6) The opposite is not true in the 21st century. You will not find many immigrants from the English, French (sans Haiti), or Dutch Caribbean in DR.
You prove my point now, so only the most desperate scumbag low-life people are migrating to these islands. Sex workers are also looked down upon in DR, at least where I'm from. We also tend to look down on "yoleros" or people who are desperate enough to migrate anywhere but the USA. And yeah we don't get many migrants around here "sans Haiti", the country with a larger population than every other Caricom country combined, so we have that burden of sharing an island with the poorest country in the region. Now why is it that Haitians are the only Caricom members who are denied entry into other Caricom countries?
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Old 09-10-2018, 08:58 PM
 
906 posts, read 914,609 times
Reputation: 809
Youre still demanding Youtube videos as if I did not provide you official government statistics as well as an academic paper. It's clear you missed my argument, which was specifically about the ABC islands, since you keep talking about every island but Aruba, Curacao, and/ore Bonaire.

I don't care about El Cibao and how white you guys are there. That had nothing to do with what I was posting about. It is funny that you posted those videos though because everything the issue of race and DR is brought up, Dominicans online always talk about El Cibao, insinuating that black Dominicans aren't real Dominicans. Way to keep up the stereotype.

The facts are there are many of your people in our islands but not vice versa. We do not go to your country despite your much larger economy. Like I said, the Dominican feelings of superiority towards other Caribbean people is hilarious because you lot are the underclass in every country you migrate, whether its the Dutch Caribbean, the US, or Spain.
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:33 PM
 
18 posts, read 5,653 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by 908Boi View Post
Youre still demanding Youtube videos as if I did not provide you official government statistics as well as an academic paper. It's clear you missed my argument, which was specifically about the ABC islands, since you keep talking about every island but Aruba, Curacao, and/ore Bonaire.
No, you're the one who missed my argument, it flew right over your head. The point is I could care less if these people are actually from DR, Haiti, or from Mars. Their numbers are so tiny that you can't even show me one single video from YouTube or any other video sharing website of these people, whereas I can show you plenty of videos of Dominicans living in East Asia and Europe. I don't care if they're actually Dominican, as I don't have an affinity to every single person who shares my nationality, this is a very large country by Caribbean standards, so many people here have more of a regionalistic pride. Also, why do you keep talking about the ABC islands, when they're not even full members of Caricom, are you unaware of this? Aruba and Curacao are "observers" just like DR.

Quote:
I don't care about El Cibao and how white you guys are there. That had nothing to do with what I was posting about. It is funny that you posted those videos though because everything the issue of race and DR is brought up, Dominicans online always talk about El Cibao, insinuating that black Dominicans aren't real Dominicans. Way to keep up the stereotype.
You have short term memory now, you brought up the race of these migrants in the first place, which was completely unnecessary considering it's pretty obvious that the poorest people in DR are also the blackest segment of our population, there's no mystery there. It's not like there are a bunch of Amelia Vega looking people migrating to these islands. Now I brought up the Cibao region because it is the most populated region of the country and is the epicenter of Dominican culture, the Santiago province alone has more people than the entire eastern region of DR.

Quote:
The facts are there are many of your people in our islands but not vice versa. We do not go to your country despite your much larger economy. Like I said, the Dominican feelings of superiority towards other Caribbean people is hilarious because you lot are the underclass in every country you migrate, whether its the Dutch Caribbean, the US, or Spain.
There are none of MY people in your islands, I can assure you of that. And I wouldn't want any of your people in my country either. Majority of those individuals who are migrating to these places are from the under-class of Dominican society, so it makes perfect sense that they would also be in the under-class of these other countries. Now I want to know exactly what highly developed country you come from, so go ahead and specify what country you're from, so we can make some comparisons here.
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:44 PM
 
906 posts, read 914,609 times
Reputation: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banilejo View Post
No, you're the one who missed my argument, it flew right over your head. The point is I could care less if these people are actually from DR, Haiti, or from Mars. Their numbers are so tiny that you can't even show me one single video from YouTube or any other video sharing website of these people, whereas I can show you plenty of videos of Dominicans living in East Asia and Europe. I don't care if they're actually Dominican, as I don't have an affinity to every single person who shares my nationality, this is a very large country by Caribbean standards, so many people here have more of a regionalistic pride. Also, why do you keep talking about the ABC islands, when they're not even full members of Caricom, are you unaware of this? Aruba and Curacao are "observers" just like DR.

You have short term memory now, you brought up the race of these migrants in the first place, which was completely unnecessary considering it's pretty obvious that the poorest people in DR are also the blackest segment of our population, there's no mystery there. It's not like there are a bunch of Amelia Vega looking people migrating to these islands. Now I brought up the Cibao region because it is the most populated region of the country and is the epicenter of Dominican culture, the Santiago province alone has more people than the entire eastern region of DR.

There are none of MY people in your islands, I can assure you of that. And I wouldn't want any of your people in my country either. Majority of those individuals who are migrating to these places are from the under-class of Dominican society, so it makes perfect sense that they would also be in the under-class of these other countries. Now I want to know exactly what highly developed country you come from, so go ahead and specify what country you're from, so we can make some comparisons here.
I am Aruban so go ahead, I'm interested in hearing you talk about an island you clearly know nothing about.

The original post you quoted by me was about the ABC islands.

Please also revisit the post where I posted an academic paper and government statistics that demonstrate the presence of Dominicans in the ABC islands.
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Old 09-10-2018, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Northeast
227 posts, read 144,242 times
Reputation: 352
At this point, Venezuela has a much stronger likelihood of joining CARICOM than the DR so this is a pretty irrelevant discussion, albeit an interesting one.

Maduro has teased the idea of having Venezuela become an official member of CARICOM for a while now, which would would be catastrophic for the Caribbean community, especially Guyana and Trinidad.
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:45 AM
 
909 posts, read 668,755 times
Reputation: 1205
Venezuela wouldnt be allowed in....I participated in this thread initially despite my reservations as it seemed like a thread primed for the kind of tension that it has produced...I am actually surprised that DR asked to join CARICOM as the OP contends...based on their history and culture I don't see why they would want to...and I definitely dont see why current CARICOM members would want DR in either...the economics dont match up favorably and that same history and culture of DR make it a bad fit...as CaribNY insinuated, we have enough of our own racial and colorism issues to go ahead and add a nation with even worse issues


Of course the common man doesnt decide these things as common markets are primarily a means for rich people to get richer so there may be a mutual benefit that the rich of these nations see...but from a common man perspective, this would be a disastrous coalition
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Old 10-04-2018, 03:52 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,937,902 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by 908Boi View Post
Youre still demanding Youtube videos as if I did not provide you official government statistics as well as an academic paper. It's clear you missed my argument, which was specifically about the ABC islands, since you keep talking about every island but Aruba, Curacao, and/ore Bonaire.

I don't care about El Cibao and how white you guys are there. That had nothing to do with what I was posting about. It is funny that you posted those videos though because everything the issue of race and DR is brought up, Dominicans online always talk about El Cibao, insinuating that black Dominicans aren't real Dominicans. Way to keep up the stereotype.

The facts are there are many of your people in our islands but not vice versa. We do not go to your country despite your much larger economy. Like I said, the Dominican feelings of superiority towards other Caribbean people is hilarious because you lot are the underclass in every country you migrate, whether its the Dutch Caribbean, the US, or Spain.


FACT. No one migrates from the English or Dutch Caribbean to the DR looking for a better life.


FACT. Dominicans migrate to these islands looking for a better life. Yes maybe these darker Dominicans think that they might have a better go of it in these islands than in the DR and the fact that someone continuously posts videos as he tries to show how "white" the DR is just goes to show that there seems to be basis for this perspective. Apparently being "white" is prestigious in that country.
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Old 10-04-2018, 03:57 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,937,902 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarHero45 View Post
At this point, Venezuela has a much stronger likelihood of joining CARICOM .


Definitely NOT. Venezuela has border issues with many CARICOM nations and out right claims 2/3 of Guyana's land and even more of its marine resources. Venezuela was useful when it offered Petro Caribe and all, including the DR, benefitted. But that is long gone.


The DR has an elite which despises darker people, its own and those from other parts of the Caribbean. Yes just like our elites of around 60-70 years ago. But contrary to what some think the DR isn't a threat to anyone. There is already a free trade agreement between the DR and CARICOM and there is no evidence that Dominican goods and services are squeezing anyone out. In fact I think that T&T might even have had a balance of trade surplus with the DR.
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Old 10-04-2018, 04:08 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,937,902 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banilejo View Post
You have short term memory now, you brought up the race of these migrants in the first place, which was completely unnecessary considering it's pretty obvious that the poorest people in DR are also the blackest segment of our population, .


Ok so it is agreed. The black "under class" of the DR have decided that St Kitts, Antigua and other CARICOM nations are better for them than the black "Under class" of those islands think that the DR is.


So the people have voted. Poverty in the DR is worse than it is in many parts of CARICOM. I asked a Dominican how much domestics in that country make. The answer was about 25-30% of what they would make in the Eastern Caribbean. Hence Dominicans (and not just the cocolos) migrate there.


Its about time that these light skinned Dominican elites leave their racist attitudes alone. THAT is why we don't want the DR in CARICOM. How dare they scream that they are better than us when their most impoverished citizens flock to our shores and NONE of our impoverished (except Haitians) flock to theirs.


So these Dominican elites can continue to post videos showing how "white" the DR is. This is sad because even Santiago is heavily a population of mixed race people with obvious African ancestry.


And given the huge population of Santo Domingo metro area (3 million) I can only wonder since when did Santiago become the center of Dominican anything!
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