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Old 09-14-2018, 10:32 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 11 days ago)
 
5,167 posts, read 8,017,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yourgermanicanish View Post
Latin Americans that still harbor these feelings cannot expect that every single Spaniard living today is related to let’s say someone like Vasco da gama, Columbus or Alvar núñez cabeza de vaca for example. Even if somebody had an ancestor who was a conquistador, what do they have to do with what their possible great great great great great great great grandfather has done?
The Latin Americans that think like that are simply ignorant of the fact that most of the descendants of the conquistadors are Latin American mestizos/mulattoes/mixed. The vast majority of the conquistadors died and are buried in Latin America. They had most or all of their legitimate and illegitimate children in the America´s. Its basically impossible for most direct descendants of the conquistadors to be Spaniards today.

Take Hernan Cortes as an example. When he left Spain and arrived at Santo Domingo, he was basically a teenager. He lived a few years on Hispaniola, first in the city of Santo Domingo and then in the city of Azua (at that time Azua was on the coast too). Cortes was described by those that knew him personally as a handsome man, strong, and a well built manly body. They also say that his looks made him a woman magnet and that he was also a womanizer, sleeping even with the wives of other men that basically offered themselves to him. At a time when condomns didn´t exist, there´s no question he left descendants on the island. Most were originally mestizos, but today the bulk of his Dominican descendants most likely are mulattoes and unaware they have that lineage.

After his time on Hispaniola he moved to Cuba and lived in Santiago. Here he got into a rivalry with Diego Velazquez due to a woman that Diego wanted but Cortes won due to his looks and more effective courtship. Again, Cortes spread his seeds in eastern Cuba through his wife and mistresses.

Then he went on his expedition to conquer Mexico and there he left his greatest number of children simply due to the fact that that´s where he spent the rest of his life. He also married a daughter of Aztec king Monctezuma, with her mestizo children becoming the foundation and most respected people of Mexico´s traditional upper class.

Hernan Cortes is buried inside the church of Jesus Nazareno in the Historic Center of Mexico City, a church/hospital that was actually founded by him. If you go to Google Street View and type ´Jesus Nazareno Hospital Mexico City´ you can see the church. Inside the church, next to the altar, is a crypt with a red plaque with letters in gold that says Hernan Cortes 1485 - 1547.

That´s just Cortes, but a similar situation applies with the other Spanish conquistadors. Based on the young age most of them crossed the Atlantic and the route they took over the years to reach the lands they conquered, without question they left many legitimate and illegitimate proginy along the way; most of their modern descendants (probably has grown to millions of people) completely unaware they descend from them unless they confirm it with a DNA test.

Most descendants are not in Spain, but along the route they took in the America´s.

Hernan Cortes (buried in Mexico City): Dominican Republic, Cuba, Mexico, Guatemala (he made an expedition there but return to Mexico)

Francisco Pizarro (buried in Lima, Peru): Dominican Republic, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru

Juan Ponce de Leon (buried in San Juan, Puerto Rico): Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico

Diego Velazquez (buried in Santiago, Cuba): Dominican Republic, Cuba

Vasco Núñez de Balboa (no one knows where his remains are, but he died in Panama): Dominican Republic, Panama

Rodrigo de Bastidas (buried in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic): Dominican Republic, Colombia

The list is long. Practically all conquistadors spent time on the eastern part of Hispaniola (modern Dominican Republic) and from there spread through the continent, most (if not all) leaving behind a trail of mostly mixed children with lineages that exist in our days all over Latin America (and all over the USA too due to massive Latino immigration in recent decades).

The people of Spanish America are themselves the conquerors, whether they are aware of it or not.

Obviously, those that descend from the legitimate lines are aware of it because they also have the documentation to prove it, but those that descend from illegitimate lines (kids that were never recognized by their father either because the father never knew the kid was born, couldn´t legally recognize the kid of a mistress to avoid a scandal, or down right rejected the kid didn´t had legal documents to pass to their heirs, but the actual bloodlines don´t disappear due to a lack of documents). The illegitimate lines are the most numerous and are present everywhere that has a significant Spanish-speaking population in this hemisphere.

Last edited by AntonioR; 09-14-2018 at 10:57 AM..
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Old 09-14-2018, 10:37 AM
 
Location: London, UK
2,871 posts, read 1,544,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post

The people of Spanish America are themselves the conquerors, whether they are aware of it or not.
Preach brother! Lol. Sometimes I really despair at the lack of general understanding in this field.
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:57 PM
 
Location: In a land of gods and monsters
426 posts, read 232,184 times
Reputation: 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
The Latin Americans that think like that are simply ignorant of the fact that most of the descendants of the conquistadors are Latin American mestizos/mulattoes/mixed. The vast majority of the conquistadors died and are buried in Latin America. They had most or all of their legitimate and illegitimate children in the America´s. Its basically impossible for most direct descendants of the conquistadors to be Spaniards today.

Take Hernan Cortes as an example. When he left Spain and arrived at Santo Domingo, he was basically a teenager. He lived a few years on Hispaniola, first in the city of Santo Domingo and then in the city of Azua (at that time Azua was on the coast too). Cortes was described by those that knew him personally as a handsome man, strong, and a well built manly body. They also say that his looks made him a woman magnet and that he was also a womanizer, sleeping even with the wives of other men that basically offered themselves to him. At a time when condomns didn´t exist, there´s no question he left descendants on the island. Most were originally mestizos, but today the bulk of his Dominican descendants most likely are mulattoes and unaware they have that lineage.

After his time on Hispaniola he moved to Cuba and lived in Santiago. Here he got into a rivalry with Diego Velazquez due to a woman that Diego wanted but Cortes won due to his looks and more effective courtship. Again, Cortes spread his seeds in eastern Cuba through his wife and mistresses.

Then he went on his expedition to conquer Mexico and there he left his greatest number of children simply due to the fact that that´s where he spent the rest of his life. He also married a daughter of Aztec king Monctezuma, with her mestizo children becoming the foundation and most respected people of Mexico´s traditional upper class.

Hernan Cortes is buried inside the church of Jesus Nazareno in the Historic Center of Mexico City, a church/hospital that was actually founded by him. If you go to Google Street View and type ´Jesus Nazareno Hospital Mexico City´ you can see the church. Inside the church, next to the altar, is a crypt with a red plaque with letters in gold that says Hernan Cortes 1485 - 1547.

That´s just Cortes, but a similar situation applies with the other Spanish conquistadors. Based on the young age most of them crossed the Atlantic and the route they took over the years to reach the lands they conquered, without question they left many legitimate and illegitimate proginy along the way; most of their modern descendants (probably has grown to millions of people) completely unaware they descend from them unless they confirm it with a DNA test.

Most descendants are not in Spain, but along the route they took in the America´s.

Hernan Cortes (buried in Mexico City): Dominican Republic, Cuba, Mexico, Guatemala (he made an expedition there but return to Mexico)

Francisco Pizarro (buried in Lima, Peru): Dominican Republic, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru

Juan Ponce de Leon (buried in San Juan, Puerto Rico): Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico

Diego Velazquez (buried in Santiago, Cuba): Dominican Republic, Cuba

Vasco Núñez de Balboa (no one knows where his remains are, but he died in Panama): Dominican Republic, Panama

Rodrigo de Bastidas (buried in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic): Dominican Republic, Colombia

The list is long. Practically all conquistadors spent time on the eastern part of Hispaniola (modern Dominican Republic) and from there spread through the continent, most (if not all) leaving behind a trail of mostly mixed children with lineages that exist in our days all over Latin America (and all over the USA too due to massive Latino immigration in recent decades).

The people of Spanish America are themselves the conquerors, whether they are aware of it or not.

Obviously, those that descend from the legitimate lines are aware of it because they also have the documentation to prove it, but those that descend from illegitimate lines (kids that were never recognized by their father either because the father never knew the kid was born, couldn´t legally recognize the kid of a mistress to avoid a scandal, or down right rejected the kid didn´t had legal documents to pass to their heirs, but the actual bloodlines don´t disappear due to a lack of documents). The illegitimate lines are the most numerous and are present everywhere that has a significant Spanish-speaking population in this hemisphere.
That’s really interesting thanks for sharing all of this information! You are right, I forgot about that most of the conquistadors had children in Latin America instead of Spain, so in reality it’s like if people harbor those feelings towards them then they are really hating a part of themselves. It just sucks that till this day the Latin Americans that think like this feel hatered towards Spain but thankgod not everyone is like that. I just feel like what happened 500 hundred years ago should just stay in the past but people still bring it up. I heard that people who say their ancestors were slaves want some kind of reparations now which I don’t understand at all. Why should someone pay for that now if they weren’t even living at the time of their great great great grandfather etc and from whom would they get that kind of retribution from, Americans? Europeans? The only one I can understand who should get some kind of reparations are the native Americans but they should get it from the government becuase the government screwed them over completely, not by random individuals becuase they are white that they have to pay etc. The government committed such atrocities like sterilization of their women, wipeout tribes almost completely, taking kids away from their families and forcing them in boarding schools etc.

Last edited by Yourgermanicanish; 09-14-2018 at 05:07 PM..
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Old 09-14-2018, 11:23 PM
 
Location: London, UK
2,871 posts, read 1,544,263 times
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I believe in reparations! But it should not be done in a vindictive way, it should be studied with cool heads and truly calculated what the real contributions of these oppressed communities were via free labour, land and also human rights violations compensation. Spain is a crucial part of this conversation as it was the main beneficiary during this period more-so than even the conquistadors that ended up residing in Latin America. This can be done in creative ways like law 70 of the Colombian constitution which gives land rights to Africans and Native American communities, certain rights to Latin American nationals in Spain or the more controversial affirmative action. Ideally the latter wouldn't be a necessity but the true fact of the matter is that we still live in a world of white privilege and the debt hasn't been paid.



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Old 09-15-2018, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
5,809 posts, read 9,467,884 times
Reputation: 2950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yourgermanicanish View Post
I just feel like what happened 500 hundred years ago should just stay in the past but people still bring it up. I heard that people who say their ancestors were slaves want some kind of reparations now which I don’t understand at all. Why should someone pay for that now if they weren’t even living at the time
Because the descendants now in some cases - black Americans, native Americans (and by native I mean all the indigenous peoples throughout the Americas) - are still suffering consequences in the form of lack of opportunities, racism, or unequal rights. If you go to the Southwest U.S. and spend time among Indians and on Indian reservations, for example, you'll see how utterly devastated their culture was and that these repercussions continue to have impact today.
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Old 09-16-2018, 11:37 AM
 
Location: London, UK
2,871 posts, read 1,544,263 times
Reputation: 1616
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
Because the descendants now in some cases - black Americans, native Americans (and by native I mean all the indigenous peoples throughout the Americas) - are still suffering consequences in the form of lack of opportunities, racism, or unequal rights. If you go to the Southwest U.S. and spend time among Indians and on Indian reservations, for example, you'll see how utterly devastated their culture was and that these repercussions continue to have impact today.
Exactly. Well said. I can't emphasise enough that although I completely disagree with any vindictive movement (at the end of the day a child is not responsible for the actions of their parents), I believe those of us that have inherited a level of social privilege should make space for the voices to be heard.






Last edited by Pueblofuerte; 09-16-2018 at 11:49 AM..
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Old 09-16-2018, 12:16 PM
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6,898 posts, read 4,229,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
Preach brother! Lol. Sometimes I really despair at the lack of general understanding in this field.
He's right.
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