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Old 09-12-2018, 01:21 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,947 posts, read 36,185,822 times
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Let's make Cuba, DR, PR, Panama and parts of the coastal areas of Colombia (and a bit inland to include Cali)...and make one country...what should we call it?

I'm basically grouping them that way as these 5 are all Spanish-speaking centered around the Caribbean, and have more of the African genetic mixed into their overall population.
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Old 09-12-2018, 03:18 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
3,014 posts, read 1,648,183 times
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Who is the collective "we" who shall decide this...?

There already was a Gran Colombia which splintered into pieces years ago...though that only included a portion of the areas you mentioned.

But I think you are living in a fantasy world which is fine for C-D. It just that many of the areas you mentioned have quite distinct geographical, cultural and political differences that it would never happen in a million years to have all those bound into one country.

Also, not sure why you left out Haiti...but again the DR wants no part of Haiti. And that is the whole point...there is quite a bit of historical complexity that makes your proposal a total non-starter.
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Old 09-12-2018, 03:33 AM
 
Location: Macao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks View Post
Who is the collective "we" who shall decide this...?

There already was a Gran Colombia which splintered into pieces years ago...though that only included a portion of the areas you mentioned.

But I think you are living in a fantasy world which is fine for C-D. It just that many of the areas you mentioned have quite distinct geographical, cultural and political differences that it would never happen in a million years to have all those bound into one country.

Also, not sure why you left out Haiti...but again the DR wants no part of Haiti. And that is the whole point...there is quite a bit of historical complexity that makes your proposal a total non-starter.
It'll never happen. Puerto Rico is part of the U.S. for one.

But, just thinking of the PR, DR, Cuba thread...and how similar the three are...and yeah, Haiti should be included as well. I was thinking of the Spanish language...but realistically, Haiti's history is similar...I guess its a slippery slope of just bringing in everything if it jumps from Spanish to French which takes in a ton more of other places with it....

Gran Colombia...just Ecuador, Colombia, Venezuela and Panama...although that would have been interesting.
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Old 09-12-2018, 05:36 AM
 
Location: Brussels
505 posts, read 460,779 times
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Let's call it "Fantasia"
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Canada
4,811 posts, read 4,443,437 times
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Venezuela should be included in this fantasy land.
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Macao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
Venezuela should be included in this fantasy land.
Actually, you're right!
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:36 AM
Status: "Hope is last to lose it..." (set 1 day ago)
 
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The last time the DR attempted to join Colombia (Gran Colombia at that time) Simon Bolivar took too long to send a response.

A small group of Spaniards lead by a prominent lawyer early in the morning in late November 1821 invaded the Palace of the Governor and interrupted as he was shaving. They told him that the Dominican people were tired of the Spanish monarchy not giving more economic privileges to Spanish Santo Domingo, that from that moment Spanish rule ended, that the state of Spanish Haiti (the name was choosen because they thought that would keep the Haitian forces at bay in Haiti for long enough until the Spanish territory was absorbed by Gran Colombia) has been created, and that he and the rest of the Spanish ministers should leave at once. The Spanish governor basically said if that’s what you want, then so be it. He finished shaving, put his formal cothes on, advised the Spanish government ministers, got on a boat and left for Cuba. Not a single drop of blood was spilled.

All the while the Spanish flag was replaced with the flag of Gran Colombia in all the public squares and public buildings. A delegation was quickly formed and sent to Gran Colombia to speak with Simon Bolivar and let him know that the Spanish colony of Santo Domingo cut ties with the mother country and wished to join Gran Colombia.The plan failed because Simon Bolivar was somewhere else leading some battle and was not able to be informed and much less give a timely response to the Dominicans.

About a month or two later the worst scenario became reality. The Haitian army headed by Haitian president Jean Pierre Boyer marched into the Spanish territory. The memory of the invasion Jean Jaques Dessalines in 1805, in which he blamed the Dominicans as traitors for rejecting his rule and as a consequence hunted and killed the Dominican civilian population everywhere he found them and burned all the towns, etc (modern Dominicans descend from the 60,000 or so that managed to escape into the woods in time to preserve their lives). Given the terror the invasion of Dessalines created, with many visible reminders of that horrible event that engulfed the entire colony; the Dominicans decided to stay tranquil and not attempt to anger or harass the black army as they marched from town to town on their way to Santo Domingo. Despite that Boyer was not sanguinary, the memory of Dessalines made most Dominicans to stay inside their homes with the doors and persians shut as the Haitian army marched through the towns. The fear was tremendous of not knowing what were the real intentions of the Haitians, especially not knowing if a repeat of the desolation that Dessalines did was going to take place again.

The Haitian troops arrived at Santo Domingo and the interim government of Spanish Haiti open the gates to allow Jean Pierre Boyer and his troops a peaceful entrance into the capital. With not much fanfare a Te Deum is held in the oldest cathedral in the America’s, afterwards the keys to the city are handed to Jean Pierre Boyer, and the leader of the Dominicans José Núñez de Cáceres gives a long speech that basically said that the Haitians were not going to be successful because the difference in language, culture, outlook, values, etc of the Dominican people differs markedly from that of the Haitians, that at a certain point the Dominicans will reassert their right to self-determination and the island will be divided into two countries. Then he boarded a boat with his entire family and left for Caracas (in modern Venezuela). A few years later he moved to Bogota (in modern Colombia). A few years after that he moved to Tamaulipas (in Mexico) where he lived the rest of his life. His remains return to Santo Domingo in the 20th century and lay at the National Pantheon, where the heroes of the Dominican people are buried.

Almost as soon as the Haitian invasion took place news started to come out of Santo Domingo denouncing the oppressive nature of the Haitian army. In fact, a mere few weeks after the change of powers a news article was published in Puerto Rico titled “Haitian Government Oppresses the Spaniards of Spanish Santo Domingo” with a detailed account of the actions that created great discontent among the Dominicans of all colors vs the Haitian military troops stationed in all the towns. Despite the pretensions from Port-au-Prince, in practice the Haitian army treated the Dominican people as if they were a conquered people, constantly reminded that they were nobodies in their own land. This is not to say there weren’t positive things that emerged in that time, but the negatives were too many and too much of a burden for the Dominican people to accept them indefinitely. As a Spanish priest once said, the Haitians attempted to destroy everything that was dear to the Dominicans, their Spanish language, their Spanish Catholic traditions, their racial cohesion, their tradition of land ownership, everything was to be destroyed and replaced with Haitian and French traditions.

To give one example of how much Dominicans resented the Haitian Domination. Despite that the population was subjugated for 22 years (with many unsuccessful revolts that ended with their leaders hanged) and the use of the Spanish language was prohibited, when the Dominicans managed to shake off the Haitian yoke in 1844, the Dominican population only spoke one language, Spanish. 22 years and hardly anyone spoke French and much less Haitian Creole.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that uniting with Colombia, even if its the modern version and not the Gran Colombia of Simon Bolivar, is simply out of the question. So much suffering could had been avoided if only Simon Bolivar would had given his full support to the Dominicans. Perhaps today the modern DR would had been ruled from Bogota.
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:37 AM
 
1,590 posts, read 820,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Let's make Cuba, DR, PR, Panama and parts of the coastal areas of Colombia (and a bit inland to include Cali)...and make one country...what should we call it?

I'm basically grouping them that way as these 5 are all Spanish-speaking centered around the Caribbean, and have more of the African genetic mixed into their overall population.
Never happen. YOU might think they have a lot in common. THEY don't. NOT. AT. ALL.

So, dream on . . .
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Old 09-12-2018, 02:18 PM
 
279 posts, read 152,132 times
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I'm from 'coastal Colombia' and I'm against it.
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Old 09-12-2018, 05:51 PM
 
Location: London, UK
2,876 posts, read 1,551,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oraculo View Post
I'm from 'coastal Colombia' and I'm against it.
Absolutely what would Colombia be without its Caribbean coast? Some of its most illustrious and successful people and traditions are from that region.

However, I believe there is a case for Venezuela and Colombia re-uniting. Venezuela could do with some of Colombia's work ethic and auto-sustainable/diligent attitude. It's basically the same people that have splintered off into two ideologies. One based on consumerism, pseudo-socialism and natural resource dependence and the other on hierarchical, entrepreneurial (sometimes negative), traditional values.
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