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Old 10-04-2018, 03:44 PM
 
387 posts, read 113,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
I see changing from being a white city to being a diverse one is a catastrophe. Amazing the stuff people feel so proud to chat about.
Just describing reality.
"Diverse" people in Havana are like the Chinese in Tibet. Not only "diverse" but also white were used to destroy the city.
After all, Castro is white and he was the "chief" of the marabunta.
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Old 10-04-2018, 04:13 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,925,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHESTER MANIFOLD View Post
Just describing reality.
"Diverse" people in Havana are like the Chinese in Tibet. Not only "diverse" but also white were used to destroy the city.
After all, Castro is white and he was the "chief" of the marabunta.

And despite the fact that the most destructive element in Havana was a white man you call it ceasing to be a "white" city as being a catastrophe. I remain interested in why you blame Havana's changing racial composition on its demise when it fact it was a regime consisting of white geriatrics which is to blame.
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Old 10-04-2018, 08:53 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 12 days ago)
 
5,169 posts, read 8,019,848 times
Reputation: 4264
These are the main tourist destinations in DR and Cuba.

While the whole eastern point of the DR is marketed as Punta Cana, the area where the bulk of the tourists stay is Bavaro. The real Punta Cana is a more exclusive area and the only parts of it that most tourists see is what´s in the vicinity of the airport as they are whisked to Bavaro. Most resorts are not highrises due to a law that prohibits them in the area. Even though the coast has wall to wall resorts, you don´t really see them from the street except the gated entrance to the resorts and the gated neighborhoods.

Anyway, “Punta Cana” as is known internationally captures over 70% of the tourists that visit the DR. The area also attract many foreigners as a place to live, mainly Western Europeans, Russians, and Latin Americans on the higher end or as business founders/owners; and many Haitians as cheap labor. According to some estimates, there are more Haitians than Dominicans living in the area. That´s probably changing as more Dominicans arrive from other parts of the country.

Cuba´s main destination is Varadero, a very convenient pencil-thin peninsula that juts into the Atlantic Ocean. I say convenient because the Cuban government has strict control over access to the peninsula. Apart from the tourists, only Cubans with permission can go to Varadero. I don´t know if this segregation policy that effectively discriminates against the Cuban people, you know the actual natives of Cuba, is still in effect. I know Raul Castro has loosen some of the paranoid policies that were put in place by Fidel Castro, but I´m not sure if he loosen this particular abomination. Unlike in Punta Cana, the vast majority of the people that live in Varadero are actual Cubans.

In both destinations I avoided links to 360 degree photos of the resorts, but it´s very hard to find 360 degree photos of Varadero outside the resorts. The Bavaro/Punta Cana area has many gated residential communities, but I also avoided them despite those communities makes up the bulk of the area because they are generally off limits to non-residents. Varadero doesn´t have gated residential communities (for now), but its also true that Varadero itself isn´t easily accessed by Cubans without permission from the government.


Bavaro, DR
1 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1...,-14.08p,0.42z
2 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1...,-14.37p,0.42z
3 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1...,-10.89p,0.42z
4 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1...h,-11.9p,0.42z
5 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1...05h,-21p,0.42z
6 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1...h,-12.5p,0.42z
7 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1...h,-10.8p,0.42z
8 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1...,-10.26p,0.42z
9 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1...7.87h,-5.5p,1z
10 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1....62h,-6.84p,1z

The real attraction, Bavaro Beach (the further south the clearer the water gets and the softer the waves, the opposite is true the further north).
1 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1....33h,-9.12p,1z
2 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1....18h,-0.75p,1z
3 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1....82h,-0.58p,1z
4 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1....31h,-7.06p,1z
5 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1....32h,-5.43p,1z
6 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1....45h,-3.83p,1z



Varadero, Cuba
1 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@2...98h,-11.26p,1z
2 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@2....58h,-8.02p,1z
3 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@2....74h,10.69p,1z
4 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@2....18h,-8.62p,1z
5 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@2...3.2h,-8.64p,1z
6 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@2...h,-1.68p,0.42z
7 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@2...h,-2.55p,0.42z
8 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@2...6h,-9.5p,0.42z

The real attraction, Varadero Beach.
1 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@2...,-16.32p,0.42z
2 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@2....79h,-2.56p,1z
3 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@2...1.03h,-8.5p,1z
4 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@2...12h,-10.31p,1z
5 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@2...4h,7.38p,0.42z
6 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@2...8h,-3.5p,0.42z

Last edited by AntonioR; 10-04-2018 at 09:22 PM..
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Old 10-04-2018, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,144,182 times
Reputation: 9478
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Cuba´s main destination is Varadero, a very convenient pencil-thin peninsula that juts into the Atlantic Ocean. I say convenient because the Cuban government has strict control over access to the peninsula. Apart from the tourists, only Cubans with permission can go to Varadero. I don´t know if this segregation policy that effectively discriminates against the Cuban people, you know the actual natives of Cuba, is still in effect. I know Raul Castro has loosen some of the paranoid policies that were put in place by Fidel Castro, but I´m not sure if he loosen this particular abomination. Unlike in Punta Cana, the vast majority of the people that live in Varadero are actual Cubans.
I'm highlighting a few points.

There are a few things I don't quite understand about Cuba. Under the socialist system, I believe that they were given land or buildings or something, right? So, people giving that land or those buildings, have those rights, right?

Anyway, I need to read up much more on Cuba. Every documentary I see has glimpses of information. I saw one where people had houses that they'd lived in for 30 plus years or so, etc. They do some barter or change system if they want to relocate. It's all rather confusing.

I was also seeing youtube clips of Cubans all going to some park to get wifi. Meanwhile I've also been communicating with Cubans in Cuba who have wifi and internet, and they don't know what I'm talking about when I say I've seen many videos expressing they only have one place in Havana to get online.

In short, fascinating country.
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Old 10-05-2018, 05:10 AM
 
387 posts, read 113,066 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
And despite the fact that the most destructive element in Havana was a white man you call it ceasing to be a "white" city as being a catastrophe. I remain interested in why you blame Havana's changing racial composition on its demise when it fact it was a regime consisting of white geriatrics which is to blame.


Yes, because as any communist, he used blacks, mulattoes and poor white peasants to destroy Havana's bourgeois class which were white, jews, cantonese, turks and light mulattoes.

The white bourgeois class is to blame, as they supported Castro, because he was white and Batista was not, which is utterly ridiculous.

But it was the massive arrival of easterners, some of them white, which utterly destroyed the city which was largely abandoned by their inhabitants due to persecution and confiscation. The latter massive arrival of blacks was during the early 90's, when the USSR floundered, before the city was rather preserved.

The government tried to curb the massive arrival by declaring those blacks "illegal immigrants", large repatriation, massive scare and even a song played by an officialist black group "la habana no aguanta más".

And the precriminality law, in which young blacks with certain attire were massively classified as precriminals. Cuba reminds a lot to Nazi Germany, mainly propaganda that comes straight from Goebbels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mwEUie1-uc

Last edited by CHESTER MANIFOLD; 10-05-2018 at 05:50 AM..
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Old 10-05-2018, 05:20 AM
 
387 posts, read 113,066 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
I'm highlighting a few points.

There are a few things I don't quite understand about Cuba. Under the socialist system, I believe that they were given land or buildings or something, right? So, people giving that land or those buildings, have those rights, right?

Anyway, I need to read up much more on Cuba. Every documentary I see has glimpses of information. I saw one where people had houses that they'd lived in for 30 plus years or so, etc. They do some barter or change system if they want to relocate. It's all rather confusing.

I was also seeing youtube clips of Cubans all going to some park to get wifi. Meanwhile I've also been communicating with Cubans in Cuba who have wifi and internet, and they don't know what I'm talking about when I say I've seen many videos expressing they only have one place in Havana to get online.

In short, fascinating country.


There's no private property in Cuba, all confiscated lands and buildings belong to the state, all hotels belong to the state. The new "constitution" announced that private property will return, I don't believe it.

Cubans are allowed to go to hotels, the law changed some 10 years ago, before they could not but there were all kinds of tricks. El cubano inventa.

Now they can sell their properties, which is most cases belong to somebody in Miami, but the state can confiscate it at any moment. Cubans living abroad can become residents and buy a house, that is quite expensive in Havana, but there's no security that it will no be confiscated. People sell their houses and leave the country.

There are people that have Internet because they use hacked connections from state or foreign companies, very complex as there's a Cuban internet and "a non censored" one which is censored, and wifi is by no ways free, but very expensive. Now they can buy hours through Nauta, and browse using special applications using email, Cubans are good with computers even when officially they could not have computers.

Cuba is a magic country because millions survive with 20 dollars a month when groceries are more expensive than in Miami, magic. People don't work for a salary, but for what they can "distract". Very complex, only somebody from an ex-socialist country would understand.

Last edited by CHESTER MANIFOLD; 10-05-2018 at 05:37 AM..
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Old 10-05-2018, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,144,182 times
Reputation: 9478
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHESTER MANIFOLD View Post
There's no private property in Cuba, all confiscated lands and buildings belong to the state, all hotels belong to the state. The new "constitution" announced that private property will return, I don't believe it.

Cubans are allowed to go to hotels, the law changed some 10 years ago, before they could not but there were all kinds of tricks. El cubano inventa.

Now they can sell their properties, which is most cases belong to somebody in Miami, but the state can confiscate it at any moment. Cubans living abroad can become residents and buy a house, that is quite expensive in Havana, but there's no security that it will no be confiscated. People sell their houses and leave the country.
The houses/property is one I don't understand. Basically it sounds like an entire country of 'squatters'....they occupy land and buildings without any sense of ownership. But it some ways it makes sense. I mean, there is no money to fix anything up, and why fix anything up, if you are going to get 'busted' for 'squatting' anyway - not that they get busted for squatting. But, that's basically the system, it seems. A nation of squatters with temporary but permanently residency.

Anyway, fascinating place.
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Old 10-05-2018, 08:09 AM
 
387 posts, read 113,066 times
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You defined it well, a country of squatters. There's a minority that has a sense of entitlement, those that were owners in 1959...but basically yes. There are many Cubans from abroad that have acquired residency and bought, and foreigners that married a jinetera which gave a right to the jinetera to buy property in her name, but I would not bet much because if communists don't confiscate them, somebody else will.

A country of squatters whose economy is based on theft, as people don't work for their salary, but for whatever they can steal. Fascinating country belonging to another virtual reality. Cubans have nothing to do with Latins, they hate them because of recent past history. Cubans are basically proamerican, even the government.

The income obtained by Cuba comes from Venezuela, a Cuban colony, 7.000.000.000, Cubans abroad and their investments, 5.500.000.000 and Tourism, a meager 1.500.000.000 because tourists are crappy, Canadians. Rich Cubans-Americans, those arrived in the 60's, and their offsprings don't visit Cuba, only rafters. Rich Americans don't visit Cuba, only a surge of rich liberals when Obama came, rich Europeans don't come anymore looking for jineteras, the country is not competitive.

The same Castro said that Canadians were "motel tourists", but things will have to change if they want rich Americans.

When Obama visited Cuba, he was rather critic, and the official press answered: 'Negro, ¿tú eres sueco?'. The n-word, are you Swedish?

Only in Cuba, a country still anchored in the 19th century in many ways. An Orwellian country, very interesting. Unfortunately, the country is not as interesting as 20 or 30 years ago, tourism has done a lot of harm and you can see now American flags, which is bad for rich antiamerican tourists, etc.

The influence of Miami is tremendous, now many Cubans travel to Miami to shop using their Spanish passports, something impossible to imagine 10 years ago, just as when Cubans went to Miami in planes and ferries to buy at Burdines, Sears, which were far cheaper than Cuba.


If Venezuela crashes....Cuba will return to the stone age...

Last edited by CHESTER MANIFOLD; 10-05-2018 at 08:53 AM..
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Old 10-05-2018, 08:56 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 12 days ago)
 
5,169 posts, read 8,019,848 times
Reputation: 4264
Juan Dolio, in San Pedro de Macoris province, is another touristic area in the DR, but the area isn´t popular with international tourists.

Most of the tourists here are middle class and upper middle class Dominicans mostly from Santo Domingo (despite that Santo Domingo is on the coast, the city doesn´t have a decent beach). They own most of the apartments (most of the highrises are apartments) and houses that they use for weekend escapes and also during national holidays such as Semana Santa (Holy Week, which is the week leading up to Good Friday). Juan Dolio is just 45 minutes away from Santo Domingo. There are also foreign tourists, but as already said they are the minority compared to Dominican tourists. Dominicans also fill the handful of resorts in Juan Dolio during the weekends and national holidays. As expected, during much of any given week when the Dominican visitors are mostly in Santo Domingo living their lives Juan Dolio becomes a virtual ghost town.

1 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1...9h,2.42p,1.42z
2 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1....33h,-2.79p,1z
3 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1....14h,-8.33p,1z
4 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1...5.04h,0.59p,1z
5 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1....58h,-8.35p,1z
6 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1....57h,-2.26p,1z
7 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1...8.81h,0.53p,1z
8 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1....21h,-9.39p,1z
9 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1...2.1h,-1.08p,1z
10 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1...76h,-10.32p,1z
11 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1....66h,-8.95p,1z
12 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1....01h,-7.83p,1z
13 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1....71h,-2.38p,1z
14 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@1....43h,-6.83p,1z

Last edited by AntonioR; 10-05-2018 at 09:31 AM..
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:08 AM
 
387 posts, read 113,066 times
Reputation: 173
There's also a very important presence of Cuban tourists from the island, even in very expensive hotels. Where do they obtain the money...before, only from the donkey in Miami, now from the emerging private sector, the private economy is generating millionaires..but that has happened before two or three times during the last 60 years of communism.

A Canadian tourist complained because of the massive presence of Cubans in a cheap hotel near Manzanillo, when Cubans and Europeans behave 10 times better than them, mainly those that speak some sort of caposh I don't understand that sound like hillbillies talking after drinking lethal moonshine.

Last edited by CHESTER MANIFOLD; 10-05-2018 at 09:20 AM..
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