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Old 11-14-2018, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,859 posts, read 2,533,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLIMMACKEY View Post
"The Caribbean definitely HAD the same racial dynamic as the US"....key word in CAPS.

What Islands did not have colonialism? Slavery? Which Islands were populated by immigrant Africans as well as Europeans and those Africans were not subjugated to enslavement?

I spoke in past tense, you speak in present tense (HAVE). Now what racial dynamic do you believe the US has? Both as it pertains to White/Black and intra-racial dynamics? Also by region?

What Isle do you hail from? Does your country have the same racial dynamic as the Caymans, T&C, Barbados, T&T, ETC......
Most of the Caribbean and Latin America had slavery and colonialism. That does not make the racial dynamics the same as the U.S. The above statements are extremely simplistic.

Currently, the Caymans, T&C, Barbados and T&T do not have the same racial dynamics.

Caymans’ largest population is the mixed population at 40% of the population and blacks, whites and asians each represent 20% of the population. It is also one of the most international places.

In T&T, the East Indian population has a slight majority and then the African population. The rest are mixed and other groups like Syrians, Chinese etc.

Barbados is overwhelmingly African with very small numbers for other populations. The same for T&C.

Not going into long details about each region of the U.S. I was raised there and have lived in the Mid-Atlantic, the South and the Southwest. I live in the Caribbean now. It’s different...very different racially.

As said before, these places and others in the Caribbean are different from both the U.S. and the Dominican Republic.
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Old 11-15-2018, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,208 posts, read 1,596,878 times
Reputation: 706
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
Most of the Caribbean and Latin America had slavery and colonialism. That does not make the racial dynamics the same as the U.S. The above statements are extremely simplistic.

Currently, the Caymans, T&C, Barbados and T&T do not have the same racial dynamics.

Caymansí largest population is the mixed population at 40% of the population and blacks, whites and asians each represent 20% of the population. It is also one of the most international places.

In T&T, the East Indian population has a slight majority and then the African population. The rest are mixed and other groups like Syrians, Chinese etc.

Barbados is overwhelmingly African with very small numbers for other populations. The same for T&C.

Not going into long details about each region of the U.S. I was raised there and have lived in the Mid-Atlantic, the South and the Southwest. I live in the Caribbean now. Itís different...very different racially.

As said before, these places and others in the Caribbean are different from both the U.S. and the Dominican Republic.
Once again, I referred to past tense and you are referring to a now. Can you see the difference? Racial dynamics in colonial US vs Post civil war US vs today are not exactly the same for myriad of reasons both interracially and intraracially.

And yes, stating that it WAS the same due to colonialism and slavery is a simplistic maco level statement, just as stating that you lived in different parts of the US and live in the Caribbean now. But I ALSO didnt go into long details. I live in Brazil now....
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Old 07-18-2019, 09:44 AM
 
450 posts, read 161,914 times
Reputation: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstay1929 View Post
This is funny and sad and if I'm correct the indigenous people of this land were native Indians Tainos, if I'm not mistaken. Is it not true that the Portuguese and Spanish brought African slaves to this land and use both as slaves. They also had sexual relationship with either one of these ethnicity of people by force because they own them.

How is it that the lighter ones think they are better than the darker ones when in fact they both only exist due to slavery of the native Indians and Africans. The mulattoes think they are Europeans aka whites, when in fact they are nothing more than a result of slavery themselves as is all the others. (laughing while smiling)

How many of them are totally a Portuguese or Spaniard aka Spanish. ????? in a country that belongs to the native (original owners) of the land ?????

The problem is that they do not see each other as the same with lighter skin, thinking they are white, and all it is the color of the skin. I have mulattoes in my family and it is due to the result of slavery, by a white slave owner.

The mulattoes of the united states is the result of white slave owner men and women (oh yes white women too) who had relationships with slaves. Some of them passed for being brighter than the others (yes even in my family).

So this is funny and a very sad JOKE to me. Really
this comment is just plain stupid
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Old 07-26-2019, 05:07 PM
 
7,522 posts, read 6,013,566 times
Reputation: 3839
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLIMMACKEY View Post
"Barbados, T&T, ETC......


Jamaica, and Barbados, both colonied by the British in the 17th C have very different racial dynamics because of different patterns of slavery and white settlement.


Whites settled in Barbados, bringing their wives, and whites on that were represented at all levels of social strata, even among the very poor. As a result upward mobility for the browns as limited as there were many whites available to occupy mid tier jobs. In addition the larger numbers of white women meant a larger number of house slaves. This reduced distance between blacks and whites led to the fact that Barbadian culture retains fewer African influences and more rural English influences than does Jamaica.


Whites went to Jamaica to make money and then either sold their estates, or sent lower level whites to manage them. The greater paucity of white women in Jamaica meant that a thriving group of mixed people developed. Those who were the out of wedlock kids of wealthy men became wealthy themselves, often inheriting lands from their fathers. Many also were sent to prestigious Bri9tish universities. By the late 18th C there were more "brown" (mixed identified) doctors and lawyers than there were white.


So yes the racial dynamics in these two islands are different from each other and also from the USA. In neither society was the open brutality of Jim Crow (de jure and de facto) possible, given the numeric dominance of the black population.


To call a "brown" Jamaican "black" is a joke given that many had/have their same bigoted ideas of black people as do whites and in fact more than a few are descended from brown people who OWNED slaves and who treated these people WORSE! The friction in Jamaica isn't black vs. white. Its black vs. BROWN!
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Old 07-26-2019, 05:12 PM
 
7,522 posts, read 6,013,566 times
Reputation: 3839
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
I find it interesting how foreigners portrayed Dominicans back when an interest to force the DR to accept Haiti's problems as its own was not an agenda as it is now. It must also be said that Haiti wasn't a failed state back then.

Bejamin Blurr (an American)


Report to Annex the DR to the USA (at a time when the USA had lamentable racial issues). To avoid confusion, the DR is also referred to as Santo Domingo, not just its capital city. It's a tradition from centuries ago.


Mr Hyatt Verril (American)


Mr Harrisson (an American from Philadelphia)




Mr Schoenrich


William Read (an American from Massachussetts)



What a difference!

Now demonizing the Dominican people is quite in fashion and, by the looks of things, will continue to be a fashion until the country and the Dominican society is sacrificed.


I love it how you cite writings by people who were likely quite bigoted as your evidence.


In fact the USA, then a slave owning state, was working desperately to ensure that Haiti failed, and apparently some Dominicans ran towards them like poodles seeking their masters approval.


You should really not talk too much of that.
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Old 07-26-2019, 05:20 PM
 
7,522 posts, read 6,013,566 times
Reputation: 3839
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Most of the media propaganda, the pressure on the Dominican government, the NGOīs that are constantly criticizing the DR are either based in the USA and/or receive funding from the US.


Every time the DR government decides to tackle the problem it gets severely reprimanded by the US


You don't tackle your problems with mass undocumented immigration from Haiti (a legitimate concern) with endless prattle of "evil Haitians plotting to invade the DR" or with attempting to deport or exclude people born in the DR, whose parents were also born in the DR, merely because you suspect that their grandparents arrived illegally from Haiti.


The DR has its image because they have worked hard to get it. Maybe when Balaguer contrasted the DR (a white Christian nation) with Haiti which he described as a "savage African one" people like you should have told him to stop it. And to say that most Dominicans don't agree with this description, given that Dominicans also have aspects of African culture within their mix, so certainly aren't purely Spanish.


But Dominicans said NOTHING to Balaguer's rants which were made as recently as 1989. long after such behavior was tolerated by decent people. How can a part black people have tolerated such nastiness?


The reality is that the DR lies next to Haiti so clearly has been impacted by it, as it also impacts Haiti. That has NOTHING to do with the fact that the DR CANNOT solve Haiti's problems as it has many of its own too. The DR being one of the POORER Caribbean nations, even if it isn't any where near Haiti's condition.
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Old 07-27-2019, 04:06 PM
 
152 posts, read 29,936 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
You don't tackle your problems with mass undocumented immigration from Haiti (a legitimate concern) with endless prattle of "evil Haitians plotting to invade the DR" or with attempting to deport or exclude people born in the DR, whose parents were also born in the DR, merely because you suspect that their grandparents arrived illegally from Haiti.


The DR has its image because they have worked hard to get it. Maybe when Balaguer contrasted the DR (a white Christian nation) with Haiti which he described as a "savage African one" people like you should have told him to stop it. And to say that most Dominicans don't agree with this description, given that Dominicans also have aspects of African culture within their mix, so certainly aren't purely Spanish.


But Dominicans said NOTHING to Balaguer's rants which were made as recently as 1989. long after such behavior was tolerated by decent people. How can a part black people have tolerated such nastiness?


The reality is that the DR lies next to Haiti so clearly has been impacted by it, as it also impacts Haiti. That has NOTHING to do with the fact that the DR CANNOT solve Haiti's problems as it has many of its own too. The DR being one of the POORER Caribbean nations, even if it isn't any where near Haiti's condition.

one thing is simple, there are no stateless people in DR. those are haitians born in DR, and bacuse they are not dominicans they should be sent back to haiti. is a very simple thing to understand.

i do not share the pesimistic view of antonio, haiti and thir african american and caribean friends do not have to power to bully DR into taking more haitians in. After a brutal campaign DR has it more clear than ever, THE US and THE ENGLISH CARIBBEAN HATE haity and dont want haitians there, so they want DR to Deal with them.

THat has always been the ploy, Caricom does not whant haitians and want DR to deal with them.


but the plan is now revealed, and will not work.
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Old 07-27-2019, 05:39 PM
 
24,439 posts, read 17,874,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grabandgo View Post
one thing is simple, there are no stateless people in DR. those are haitians born in DR, and bacuse they are not dominicans they should be sent back to haiti. is a very simple thing to understand.

i do not share the pesimistic view of antonio, haiti and thir african american and caribean friends do not have to power to bully DR into taking more haitians in. After a brutal campaign DR has it more clear than ever, THE US and THE ENGLISH CARIBBEAN HATE haity and dont want haitians there, so they want DR to Deal with them.

THat has always been the ploy, Caricom does not whant haitians and want DR to deal with them.


but the plan is now revealed, and will not work.
If the Dominican government wants money from the US as always they will do exactly as the US tells them, plain and simple.
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Old 07-27-2019, 06:17 PM
 
5,505 posts, read 8,168,897 times
Reputation: 4322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grabandgo View Post
one thing is simple, there are no stateless people in DR. those are haitians born in DR, and bacuse they are not dominicans they should be sent back to haiti. is a very simple thing to understand.

i do not share the pesimistic view of antonio, haiti and thir african american and caribean friends do not have to power to bully DR into taking more haitians in. After a brutal campaign DR has it more clear than ever, THE US and THE ENGLISH CARIBBEAN HATE haity and dont want haitians there, so they want DR to Deal with them.

THat has always been the ploy, Caricom does not whant haitians and want DR to deal with them.


but the plan is now revealed, and will not work.
Haitian migration will continue to happen. It is simply the truth. Eventually they will have the whole island to themselves. It may not happen while we are still alive, but eventually it is going to happen. What will the Haitian government do with all the island when by all accounts they can't handle the third that belong to them I don't know (before 1929 they had the original territory of the French). Haiti isn't quite Jamaica, Saint Lucia, Barbados, or Aruba. Haiti is different from all the places in this hemisphere. You have to go to Africa to find something similar and most countries in Africa is better off than Haiti. There are only two or three countries in Africa that are worse off than Haiti, two or three countries. That's it. What will that government do? That's really the question.
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Old 07-27-2019, 06:57 PM
 
24,439 posts, read 17,874,792 times
Reputation: 9250
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Haitian migration will continue to happen. It is simply the truth. Eventually they will have the whole island to themselves. It may not happen while we are still alive, but eventually it is going to happen. What will the Haitian government do with all the island when by all accounts they can't handle the third that belong to them I don't know (before 1929 they had the original territory of the French). Haiti isn't quite Jamaica, Saint Lucia, Barbados, or Aruba. Haiti is different from all the places in this hemisphere. You have to go to Africa to find something similar and most countries in Africa is better off than Haiti. There are only two or three countries in Africa that are worse off than Haiti, two or three countries. That's it. What will that government do? That's really the question.
If most of Haiti moves to the DR, it is the Dominican government that has the whole island. Either way the problem is solved.

No need to pretend the DR us a well off nation or that many Dominicans are not leaving for the US, Spain, and Chile.
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