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Old 07-27-2019, 07:07 PM
 
5,473 posts, read 8,148,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
If most of Haiti moves to the DR, it is the Dominican government that has the whole island. Either way the problem is solved.

No need to pretend the DR us a well off nation or that many Dominicans are not leaving for the US, Spain, and Chile.
If the Haitian government was allow to fail, it would had disappeared a long time ago. As more Haitians mass migrate to the DR, the more the DR will begin to function like Haiti. Haitians already tried to recently create a Haitian political party that its membership was based on the ethnicity, a first in the DR because political parties have never been based on ethnicity or race. It wasn't allowed by the JCE, but they will continue to try until they succeed. The problem isn't solved, just made much bigger than it is. Everybody in the DR knows deep inside that the DR has an expiration date.
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Old 07-28-2019, 01:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
If the Haitian government was allow to fail, it would had disappeared a long time ago. As more Haitians mass migrate to the DR, the more the DR will begin to function like Haiti. Haitians already tried to recently create a Haitian political party that its membership was based on the ethnicity, a first in the DR because political parties have never been based on ethnicity or race. It wasn't allowed by the JCE, but they will continue to try until they succeed. The problem isn't solved, just made much bigger than it is. Everybody in the DR knows deep inside that the DR has an expiration date.
It won’t matter if the DR and Haiti merge. Tourism would continue to take place. Nothing would really change.
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Old 07-28-2019, 04:51 AM
 
76 posts, read 15,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
If the Haitian government was allow to fail, it would had disappeared a long time ago. As more Haitians mass migrate to the DR, the more the DR will begin to function like Haiti. Haitians already tried to recently create a Haitian political party that its membership was based on the ethnicity, a first in the DR because political parties have never been based on ethnicity or race. It wasn't allowed by the JCE, but they will continue to try until they succeed. The problem isn't solved, just made much bigger than it is. Everybody in the DR knows deep inside that the DR has an expiration date.
Dominicans wont allow that. Trust me. Im half Dominican, and knowing my family, friends, and all the Dominicans I know or met briefly in NY and all over DR. The vast majority of Dominicans would rather die than allow a merger to happen.

Meaning the Haitians would have to kill off the Dominicans. Now knowing the super poor economy of Haiti, its military reflects that, their army still has guns that most the world used in the 1800s. The Dominican economy is far better, still poor compared to US and Europe, but far wealthier than Haiti. The Dominican army is better trained, has better weapons, even have tanks.

Now, I know the migration of Haitians is strong and many Dominicans see this as a sneaky peaceful "warless" invasion. They are very angered is this and tension has been increasing. In fact, they is now a vast majority of Dominicans in DR who support 2020 presidential candidate Ramfis Trujillo, grandson of imfamous Rafael Trujillo. He vows to fix the immigration and he even build a border wall. He has a support of 70% of Dominican Republic easily, maybe higher.

The current president Danilo is seen as a traitor for putting illegals first before citizens and allowing a open border, similar to how a liberal US president would, the Dominicans really hate that man and "Puerto Rico Ricky Renouncia" type vibes have been brewing. There is a very high chance that Ramfis would be the next president of DR and if he isnt they may be heavy civil unrest against the government, becuz that is who the vast majority of Dominicans want, they want someone who can to fix their immigration problem. DR has a very corrupt governement, so even tho most have a negative view of Danilo, he can still try to pull a sneak move to remain in power, which will easily cause a civil unrest in DR.

If a border wall or some other type of solution is not put forth and there continues to be massive illegal immigration from Haiti, not only will it result in civil unrest towards the government, they would strong tensions between the 2 groups and even maybe guerilla wars from dominicans towards haitians, or vice versa. 2 Very nationalist groups, one that historically wanted control of the whole island and some may still have that "one island" mentality and would probably tak advantage of the careless nonchalant Dominican government (if Ramfis is not elected). And the other that LOVES being Dominican to the core and dont want to lose their culture and identity and everything that makes DR-Dominican (Spanish language, Caribbean Latino culture, mixed race people, Catholic religion, ....all very different from haitians) and is more than willing to take the problem into their own hands if worse comes to worse. Its a ticking bomb.

Last edited by coconada; 07-28-2019 at 05:29 AM..
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Old 07-28-2019, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,857 posts, read 2,523,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grabandgo View Post
one thing is simple, there are no stateless people in DR. those are haitians born in DR, and bacuse they are not dominicans they should be sent back to haiti. is a very simple thing to understand.

i do not share the pesimistic view of antonio, haiti and thir african american and caribean friends do not have to power to bully DR into taking more haitians in. After a brutal campaign DR has it more clear than ever, THE US and THE ENGLISH CARIBBEAN HATE haity and dont want haitians there, so they want DR to Deal with them.

THat has always been the ploy, Caricom does not whant haitians and want DR to deal with them.


but the plan is now revealed, and will not work.
The English-speaking Caribbean doesn’t hate Haiti. For most of the English-speaking Caribbean, Haiti is revered for its history against the French, for its resilience. However, there are few Haitians that people come into contact with such that Haiti isn’t much of a thought for the average person. Speak for the DR but don’t speak for the many islands in the English-speaking Caribbean to which you obviously have little exposure.
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Old 07-28-2019, 06:05 AM
 
24,403 posts, read 17,831,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coconada View Post
Dominicans wont allow that. Trust me. Im half Dominican, and knowing my family, friends, and all the Dominicans I know or met briefly in NY and all over DR. The vast majority of Dominicans would rather die than allow a merger to happen.

Meaning the Haitians would have to kill off the Dominicans. Now knowing the super poor economy of Haiti, its military reflects that, their army still has guns that most the world used in the 1800s. The Dominican economy is far better, still poor compared to US and Europe, but far wealthier than Haiti. The Dominican army is better trained, has better weapons, even have tanks.

Now, I know the migration of Haitians is strong and many Dominicans see this as a sneaky peaceful "warless" invasion. They are very angered is this and tension has been increasing. In fact, they is now a vast majority of Dominicans in DR who support 2020 presidential candidate Ramfis Trujillo, grandson of imfamous Rafael Trujillo. He vows to fix the immigration and he even build a border wall. He has a support of 70% of Dominican Republic easily, maybe higher.

The current president Danilo is seen as a traitor for putting illegals first before citizens and allowing a open border, similar to how a liberal US president would, the Dominicans really hate that man and "Puerto Rico Ricky Renouncia" type vibes have been brewing. There is a very high chance that Ramfis would be the next president of DR and if he isnt they may be heavy civil unrest against the government, becuz that is who the vast majority of Dominicans want, they want someone who can to fix their immigration problem. DR has a very corrupt governement, so even tho most have a negative view of Danilo, he can still try to pull a sneak move to remain in power, which will easily cause a civil unrest in DR.

If a border wall or some other type of solution is not put forth and there continues to be massive illegal immigration from Haiti, not only will it result in civil unrest towards the government, they would strong tensions between the 2 groups and even maybe guerilla wars from dominicans towards haitians, or vice versa. 2 Very nationalist groups, one that historically wanted control of the whole island and some may still have that "one island" mentality and would probably tak advantage of the careless nonchalant Dominican government (if Ramfis is not elected). And the other that LOVES being Dominican to the core and dont want to lose their culture and identity and everything that makes DR-Dominican (Spanish language, Caribbean Latino culture, mixed race people, Catholic religion, ....all very different from haitians) and is more than willing to take the problem into their own hands if worse comes to worse. Its a ticking bomb.
War between the two would really result in US occupation for the entire island and a merger that way. The entire island cannot take in the US militarily.
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Old 07-28-2019, 06:26 AM
 
24,403 posts, read 17,831,437 times
Reputation: 9232
Quote:
Originally Posted by coconada View Post
Dominicans wont allow that. Trust me. Im half Dominican, and knowing my family, friends, and all the Dominicans I know or met briefly in NY and all over DR. The vast majority of Dominicans would rather die than allow a merger to happen.

Meaning the Haitians would have to kill off the Dominicans. Now knowing the super poor economy of Haiti, its military reflects that, their army still has guns that most the world used in the 1800s. The Dominican economy is far better, still poor compared to US and Europe, but far wealthier than Haiti. The Dominican army is better trained, has better weapons, even have tanks.

Now, I know the migration of Haitians is strong and many Dominicans see this as a sneaky peaceful "warless" invasion. They are very angered is this and tension has been increasing. In fact, they is now a vast majority of Dominicans in DR who support 2020 presidential candidate Ramfis Trujillo, grandson of imfamous Rafael Trujillo. He vows to fix the immigration and he even build a border wall. He has a support of 70% of Dominican Republic easily, maybe higher.

The current president Danilo is seen as a traitor for putting illegals first before citizens and allowing a open border, similar to how a liberal US president would, the Dominicans really hate that man and "Puerto Rico Ricky Renouncia" type vibes have been brewing. There is a very high chance that Ramfis would be the next president of DR and if he isnt they may be heavy civil unrest against the government, becuz that is who the vast majority of Dominicans want, they want someone who can to fix their immigration problem. DR has a very corrupt governement, so even tho most have a negative view of Danilo, he can still try to pull a sneak move to remain in power, which will easily cause a civil unrest in DR.

If a border wall or some other type of solution is not put forth and there continues to be massive illegal immigration from Haiti, not only will it result in civil unrest towards the government, they would strong tensions between the 2 groups and even maybe guerilla wars from dominicans towards haitians, or vice versa. 2 Very nationalist groups, one that historically wanted control of the whole island and some may still have that "one island" mentality and would probably tak advantage of the careless nonchalant Dominican government (if Ramfis is not elected). And the other that LOVES being Dominican to the core and dont want to lose their culture and identity and everything that makes DR-Dominican (Spanish language, Caribbean Latino culture, mixed race people, Catholic religion, ....all very different from haitians) and is more than willing to take the problem into their own hands if worse comes to worse. Its a ticking bomb.
War between the two would really result in US occupation for the entire island and a merger that way. The entire island cannot take in the US militarily.
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Old 07-28-2019, 06:48 AM
 
5,473 posts, read 8,148,806 times
Reputation: 4313
Quote:
Originally Posted by coconada View Post
Dominicans wont allow that. Trust me. Im half Dominican, and knowing my family, friends, and all the Dominicans I know or met briefly in NY and all over DR. The vast majority of Dominicans would rather die than allow a merger to happen.

Meaning the Haitians would have to kill off the Dominicans. Now knowing the super poor economy of Haiti, its military reflects that, their army still has guns that most the world used in the 1800s. The Dominican economy is far better, still poor compared to US and Europe, but far wealthier than Haiti. The Dominican army is better trained, has better weapons, even have tanks.

Now, I know the migration of Haitians is strong and many Dominicans see this as a sneaky peaceful "warless" invasion. They are very angered is this and tension has been increasing. In fact, they is now a vast majority of Dominicans in DR who support 2020 presidential candidate Ramfis Trujillo, grandson of imfamous Rafael Trujillo. He vows to fix the immigration and he even build a border wall. He has a support of 70% of Dominican Republic easily, maybe higher.

The current president Danilo is seen as a traitor for putting illegals first before citizens and allowing a open border, similar to how a liberal US president would, the Dominicans really hate that man and "Puerto Rico Ricky Renouncia" type vibes have been brewing. There is a very high chance that Ramfis would be the next president of DR and if he isnt they may be heavy civil unrest against the government, becuz that is who the vast majority of Dominicans want, they want someone who can to fix their immigration problem. DR has a very corrupt governement, so even tho most have a negative view of Danilo, he can still try to pull a sneak move to remain in power, which will easily cause a civil unrest in DR.

If a border wall or some other type of solution is not put forth and there continues to be massive illegal immigration from Haiti, not only will it result in civil unrest towards the government, they would strong tensions between the 2 groups and even maybe guerilla wars from dominicans towards haitians, or vice versa. 2 Very nationalist groups, one that historically wanted control of the whole island and some may still have that "one island" mentality and would probably tak advantage of the careless nonchalant Dominican government (if Ramfis is not elected). And the other that LOVES being Dominican to the core and dont want to lose their culture and identity and everything that makes DR-Dominican (Spanish language, Caribbean Latino culture, mixed race people, Catholic religion, ....all very different from haitians) and is more than willing to take the problem into their own hands if worse comes to worse. Its a ticking bomb.
I know how most Dominicans think and that Dominicans in general don't mix with the Haitians and have babies with them (one of the major reasons most Haitians in the DR, which is mostly recent and overwhelmingly male, return to Haiti to find a spouse). In general that Haitian create certain neighborhoods where they congregate and create their own churches and stuff. There are many Haitians in the DR that already claim that they will take over the country again and this is done even on national television, burning the Dominican flag while holding up the Haitian flag. This is something that is visible with a short in person acquaintance with the DR.

The point is that right now Haiti doesn't have a strong government to effectively patrol the border, despite the agreement enforces both countries to do that. I'm not sure that country wants to patrol the border, but even if it wanted to it simply can't. Some people go as far as claiming that the Haitian government is mostly a fiction because it hardly exists. In Haiti public hospitals are few and far between, the people still die from simple diseases and diseases that has been eradicated by the Dominican government several decades ago is still endemic in Haiti. There are animals endemic to the island that has become basically extinct in Haiti as several maps show, where forest cover went from near 60% in the beginning of the XX Century to 1% currently and falling, while in the DR original forest cover went as low as 30% and now it has grown to 40%, as satellite images and maps show this. Around 1% of Haiti is currently protected in some shape or form, usually national parks; while in the DR it has grown to 25% of the territory, one of the highest in the hemisphere. Despite both countries having a similar size population, Haiti only has one dam for irrigation and electricity while the DR has over 30 dams, most built in the last 30 to 40 years.

The Haitians themselves say there is major differences between both countries, many of which is quite glaring. Pretending that there isn't will not make mass migration from there stop. Eventually the Haitians will gain enough force in the DR that instead of the DR absorbing that population is that population which will, and already are, changing the DR, making it more like their country of origin. The DR is headed for a time when two ethnicities will try to get their share from the Dominican government and that will destabilize the DR with everything that entails. The Dominican government is already using contingency plans to keep its native population from exploding towards the neighboring population, going to different parts of the country as needed. It will get worse than it is right now, which is still manageable.

Human history has been the same around the world and has repeated itself multiple times. Hispaniola will be no different to this now or in the future. Anyone that think they can rewrite human history in this regard or that somehow the DR is going to be different to other places has to be kidding themselves. The DR will be put to the stressed out due to this, and I left a lot out for the sake of making this post as short as possible.
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Old 07-28-2019, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,857 posts, read 2,523,485 times
Reputation: 2826
Interesting article on the deforestation in Haiti...

Quote:
According to their analysis, Haiti’s forest cover was more than 32 percent.

Wampler wondered whether they had set a sufficient minimum area for tree cover. So they used the FAO’s definition of a “forest,” which includes trees higher than 5 meters (about 16 feet) covering at least half a hectare. He ran the analysis again. The computer estimated Haiti’s forest coverage at nearly 30 percent, a number similar to the coverage in the United States, France, and Germany, and far higher than in Ireland and England. Wampler had discovered a rarity in today’s world: a good-news environmental story in one of the planet’s poorest countries. But then he had a troubling thought: “People won’t like this.”

“It doesn’t fit the narrative” that poverty causes deforestation and deforestation exacerbates poverty, he said. Foreign governments, charities, development banks, and the foreign media tend to present this relationship as an indisputable fact. “Organizations use this statistic as a lever to get funding and help. For them, it’s a lot more convenient to have a narrative that works.”
Quote:
(A USAID spokesperson who was aware of Wampler’s study agreed that the correct figure for tree cover is likely between 32 and 40 percent but defended the 2 percent statistic as referring to “original forest cover,” meaning before European contact.)

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/...haiti-is-a-lie
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Old 07-28-2019, 07:43 AM
 
76 posts, read 15,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
I know how most Dominicans think and that Dominicans in general don't mix with the Haitians and have babies with them (one of the major reasons most Haitians in the DR, which is mostly recent and overwhelmingly male, return to Haiti to find a spouse). In general that Haitian create certain neighborhoods where they congregate and create their own churches and stuff. There are many Haitians in the DR that already claim that they will take over the country again and this is done even on national television, burning the Dominican flag while holding up the Haitian flag. This is something that is visible with a short in person acquaintance with the DR.

The point is that right now Haiti doesn't have a strong government to effectively patrol the border, despite the agreement enforces both countries to do that. I'm not sure that country wants to patrol the border, but even if it wanted to it simply can't. Some people go as far as claiming that the Haitian government is mostly a fiction because it hardly exists. In Haiti public hospitals are few and far between, the people still die from simple diseases and diseases that has been eradicated by the Dominican government several decades ago is still endemic in Haiti. There are animals endemic to the island that has become basically extinct in Haiti as several maps show, where forest cover went from near 60% in the beginning of the XX Century to 1% currently and falling, while in the DR original forest cover went as low as 30% and now it has grown to 40%, as satellite images and maps show this. Around 1% of Haiti is currently protected in some shape or form, usually national parks; while in the DR it has grown to 25% of the territory, one of the highest in the hemisphere. Despite both countries having a similar size population, Haiti only has one dam for irrigation and electricity while the DR has over 30 dams, most built in the last 30 to 40 years.

The Haitians themselves say there is major differences between both countries, many of which is quite glaring. Pretending that there isn't will not make mass migration from there stop. Eventually the Haitians will gain enough force in the DR that instead of the DR absorbing that population is that population which will, and already are, changing the DR, making it more like their country of origin. The DR is headed for a time when two ethnicities will try to get their share from the Dominican government and that will destabilize the DR with everything that entails. The Dominican government is already using contingency plans to keep its native population from exploding towards the neighboring population, going to different parts of the country as needed. It will get worse than it is right now, which is still manageable.

Human history has been the same around the world and has repeated itself multiple times. Hispaniola will be no different to this now or in the future. Anyone that think they can rewrite human history in this regard or that somehow the DR is going to be different to other places has to be kidding themselves. The DR will be put to the stressed out due to this, and I left a lot out for the sake of making this post as short as possible.
They really need to fix their country and build it up, if they really had pride. And stop tryna take over DR. I doubt they will take over, the Dominican military might and determination is underestimated. Haiti defeated the French empire. That same Haiti lost the Dominican Republic, who fought for their independence. And defeated the Haitians every time they invaded and tried to take it back, which was about a good 30 times. Mind all of this was in the 1800s when DR was far less populous than Haiti. When you are in another country oppressing and tryn conquer a different people is totally different than you defending your home country, your family, friends, your town everybody you know, its a different type of despairation.
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Old 07-28-2019, 07:46 AM
 
76 posts, read 15,294 times
Reputation: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
War between the two would really result in US occupation for the entire island and a merger that way. The entire island cannot take in the US militarily.
I doubt it. If this was 15-20 years , then most likely because the US is known to be a instigator and they try to play world police. But recently DR and China has been building relations, its quickly becoming a ally of China. I dont think China would allow US intervention.
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