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Old 07-30-2019, 06:52 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,857 posts, read 2,525,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
The other is the Caricom organization in the Caribbean. They have a tendency to unite with the Haitian case in this. The DR has been trying to join Caricom since the 1980s and there is always a reason that they give for why the DR shouldnít join yet.
Thatís not exactly true regarding siding with Haiti. Caricom does not oppose the DRís enforcement of immigration laws that are reasonable. However, the one law that sought deportation back to 1929 was deemed unreasonable. Caricom is fair and balanced in this area.

Outside of that, the main reasons that the DR has been kept out of Caricom are likely economic.
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Old 07-30-2019, 07:52 AM
 
5,484 posts, read 8,151,718 times
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The US government as a whole supports the DR, but there are independent groups in the US that do the complete opposite and are very vocal about it, both in speeches and in articles they publish. This is why the US appears to have two contradicting policies. Sometimes the US government acts in ways that leaves people with a bad taste in their mouth. For example, the ex-president Obama stop celebrating Dominican independence at the White House, but every year celebrated Haiti's independence at the White House. Its things like that which sends a message.

In any case, the anti-Dominican propaganda has been going on for a very long time. There are many evidences of this that spans centuries, but I will cite Samuel Hazard, an American that spent many weeks on both countries and discovered the obvious. He wrote about it in several parts of his book "Santo Domingo Past and Present with A Glance at Haiti" during his visit to Haiti, some of which are:







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Old 07-30-2019, 07:55 AM
 
450 posts, read 160,314 times
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Spain has been a rabid supporter of DR in all this. As maybe most of the latam countries that have been paying attention. The issue is that Caricom and the US want to solve the Haitian issue by making DR absorb Haiti (and all its problems).

Canada was for decades a supporter of Haiti, to the point that never had an embassy in DR. they had the embassy in port au prince. they discouraged Dominican emigration to Canada and bully DR any chance they got.

Everything changed after the Barrick gold mine was sold to a Canadian company, and the Haitian earthquake. Canada quickly moved it embassy to Santo Domingo, and has been openly promoting Dominican emigration to Canada. ( now they have a strong interests in DR) they dropped Haiti like a hot potato the moment they started making money in DR.

lets be clear that the merger of DR and HAiti has been historically promoted by the mulatto Haitian elite.
the elite that manigat, martelly, Raul Cedras, ect belonged too, they have strong historical ties with DR.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:07 AM
 
450 posts, read 160,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Dominicans leave the DR in big numbers and don’t fix it up. Santo Domingo is run down and poor with lots of prostitution.

No one would declare the DR a first world country.

So as Dominicans bail out of the DR Haitians who cannot enter the US or Europe move in.
Actually DR receives about the same amount of immigrants in as they send out, about 40k a year.
30k of those are non-haitians.

DR receives a great number of immigrants. For example DR granted about 8,000 "green cards" in the last trimester (April to June 2019).
2000 of those to Haitian immigrants. while the other 6,000 to other immigrants (mostly, Venezuelans, Chinese, Americans and Europeans).
and we are talking people that did all the paper work to get a Residency permit, the number of people just living in DR on tourist vivas might be 10 times larger.

if we extrapolate that to the whole year we can see how DR gets about 25-30k non-Haitian legal immigrants per year.

https://www.migracion.gob.do/Trans/Archives/6919

Last edited by upthere22; 07-30-2019 at 08:20 AM..
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,857 posts, read 2,525,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upthere22 View Post
Spain has been a rabid supporter of DR in all this. As maybe most of the latam countries that have been paying attention. The issue is that Caricom and the US want to solve the Haitian issue by making DR absorb Haiti (and all its problems).

Canada was for decades a supporter of Haiti, to the point that never had an embassy in DR. they had the embassy in port au prince. they discouraged Dominican emigration to Canada and bully DR any chance they got.

Everything changed after the Barrick gold mine was sold to a Canadian company, and the Haitian earthquake. Canada quickly moved it embassy to Santo Domingo, and has been openly promoting Dominican emigration to Canada. ( now they have a strong interests in DR) they dropped Haiti like a hot potato the moment they started making money in DR.

lets be clear that the merger of DR and HAiti has been historically promoted by the mulatto Haitian elite.
the elite that manigat, martelly, Raul Cedras, ect belonged too, they have strong historical ties with DR.
Please show proof that Caricom and the US want the DR to absorb Haiti.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:39 AM
 
450 posts, read 160,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
Please show proof that Caricom and the US want the DR to absorb Haiti.

just look at this, Caricom have never done anything for haiti, but invest heavely into bulling DR into taking care of haitians issues. Thousands of people come to DR every month looking for medical help. Has Caricon built a hospital in Haiti? no, they haven't, but they want DR not only to let Haitians enter, and do not deport them, but also to give them citizenship ect. DR spends over 100 million US dollars a year in Medical help for Haitians. Has built hospitals and universities in Haiti, but all DR gets from caricom is resentment.

It is very clear that what they want is not to deal with Haiti and use the racist card to defect their responsibility toward Haiti to DR. a very well concerted plan.
Countries like Jamaica, st vincent, and Bahamas, try to bully DR into taking Haitians in while they do not let Haitians enter their islands, without visa despite being Caricom members.

this hypocrisy has to end.

all haity gets from caricom is empty platitudes about admiration and how strong Haitian people are, while shutting the door to them every-time they got.

DR and LAtam in general has done for Haiti 100 time more than Caricom will ever do.
Chile took more then 100k in, Brazil also took thousands in, mexico, ect. they sent troops (MINUSTAH) to patrol Haiti for decades at great economic expense, what has caricom, done? -nothing

Latam has supported DR and Haiti in all this, Caricom is just a bunch on hot air and empty platitudes.

Last edited by upthere22; 07-30-2019 at 09:34 AM..
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:50 AM
 
5,484 posts, read 8,151,718 times
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It was very easy during the same time for the DR to sign treaties and join organizations based up and down the American continent and in Europe. It has become one of the countries in Spanish America with the most free trade agreements spanning the Atlantic Ocean. At the same time Caricom has been putting roadblocks for accepting the DR as a full fledge member, despite the country has been trying to become a Caricom member since the 1980's. They always use some kind of excuse for not accepting the country. Caricom countries are geographically right there by comparison.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,857 posts, read 2,525,039 times
Reputation: 2835
Quote:
Originally Posted by upthere22 View Post
just look at this, Caricom have never done anything for haiti, but invest heavely into bulling DR into taking care of haitians issues. Thousands of people come to DR every month looking for medical help. Has Caricon built a hospital in Haiti? no, they haven't, but they want DR not only to let Haitians enter, and do not deport them, but also to give them citizenship ect. DR spends over 100 million US dollars a year in Medical help for Haitians. Has built hospitals and universities in Haiti, but all DR gets from caricom is resentment.

It is very clear that what they want is not to deal with Haiti and use the racist card to defect their responsibility toward Haiti to DR. a very well concerted plan.
Countries like Jamaica, st vincent, and Bahamas, try to bully DR into taking Haitians in while they do not let Haitians enter their islands, without visa despite being Caricom members.

this hypocrisy has to end.

all haity gets from caricom is empty platitudes about admiration and how strong Haitian people are, while shutting the door to them every-time they got.

DR and LAtam in general has done for Haiti 100 time more than Caricom will ever do.
Chile took more then 100k in, Brazil also took thousands in, mexico, ect. they sent troops (MINUSTAH) to patrol Haiti for decades at great economic expense, what has caricom, done? -nothing

Latam has supported DR and Haiti in all this, Caricom is just a bunch on hot air and empty platitudes.
The above is a rant full of inaccurate information. Nothing above shows that Caricom wants the DR to absorb Haiti. Such a claim is patently false. Here are the facts:

CARICOM member nations have given millions to Haiti. They have also sent doctors, troops, supplies etc. Even the tiny island nations have given. Trinidad, Guyana (3rd poorest in the hemisphere), Suriname, Grenada, St. Lucia, St. Vincent, Antigua and Barbuda, and the Bahamas have ALL given to Haiti.

CARICOM also supports the DR’s enforcement of fair immigration laws when it comes to Haitians and all others seeking entry. What it does not support are laws stripping citizenship from those born in the DR.

Apparently, you are unaware of how CARICOM works. There is a free movement of skilled persons but one must qualify. That’s why there are thousands of illegals in place like Trinidad, Bahamas etc.

So there is no hypocrisy at all. Only your inaccurate posts ranting and raving, spewing false information. Try that nonsense somewhere else.

Last edited by ReineDeCoeur; 07-31-2019 at 09:15 AM..
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:26 AM
 
450 posts, read 160,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
The above is a rant full of inaccurate information. Nothing above shows that Caricom wants the DR to absorb Haiti. Such a claim is patently false. Here are the facts:

CARICOM member nations have given millions to Haiti. They have also sent doctors, troops, supplies etc. Even the tiny island nations have given. Trinidad, Guyana (3rd poorest in the hemisphere), Suriname, Grenada, St. Lucia, St. Vincent, Antigua and Barbuda, and the Bahamas have ALL given to Haiti.

CARICOM also supports the DR’s enforcement of fair immigration laws when it comes to Haitians and all others seeking entry. What it does not support are laws stripping citizenship from those born in the DR.

Apparently, you are unaware of how CARICOM works. There is a free movement of skilled persons but one must qualify. That’s why there are thousands of illegals in place like Trinidad, Bahamas etc.

So there is no hypocrisy at all. Only your inaccurate posts ranting and raving, spewing false information. Try that nonsense somewhere else.
take 100k in, built something of importance, schools, universities, and then you can calk, Caricom does Zero for Haiti, sending nominal amounts of donations to save face, while trying to deflect its responsibility.
why has Chile, mexico, DR or Brazil, take millions of hatians when neither of them are in any kind of political/economic union with Haiti?, simple CAricom has neglected its role to help stabilize one of its members.

have you ever seen soldiers of caricom patrolling Haiti? no! besides sending like 200 soldiers after the quake, no one have seen caricom around since.
they come for far away places like Nepal, and Jordan, and caricom? nowhere to be found.

The hypocrisy was so hard to cover that Barbados in a move to save face granted visa free access to Haitians early this year at the same time calling to end the hypocrisy ( but they are a bunch of hypocrites too, as they know is impossible for Haitians to make it to Barbados with out getting other countries visas ). they know they will not get an avalanche of Haitians at their shores. all a PR maneuver to save face.

Last edited by upthere22; 07-31-2019 at 09:43 AM..
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Old 07-31-2019, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,857 posts, read 2,525,039 times
Reputation: 2835
Quote:
Originally Posted by upthere22 View Post
take 100k in, built something of importance, schools, universities, and then you can calk, Caricom does Zero for Haiti, sending nominal amounts of donations to save face, while trying to deflect its responsibility.
why has Chile, mexico, DR or Brazil, take millions of hatians when neither of them are in any kind of political/economic union with Haiti?, simple CAricom has neglected its role to help stabilize one of its members.

have you ever seen soldiers of caricom patrolling Haiti? no! besides sending like 200 soldiers after the quake, no one have seen caricom around since.
they come for far away places like Nepal, and Jordan, and caricom? nowhere to be found.

The hypocrisy was so hard to cover that Barbados in a move to save face granted visa free access to Haitians early this year at the same time calling to end the hypocrisy ( but they are a bunch of hypocrites too, as they know is impossible for Haitians to make it to Barbados with out getting other countries visas ). they know they will not get an avalanche of Haitians at their shores. all a PR maneuver to save face.
In other words. You canít refute anything I said. Next time stop spewing false information.
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