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Old 07-31-2019, 10:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upthere22 View Post
take 100k in, built something of importance, schools, universities, and then you can calk, Caricom does Zero for Haiti, sending nominal amounts of donations to save face, while trying to deflect its responsibility.
why has Chile, mexico, DR or Brazil, take millions of hatians when neither of them are in any kind of political/economic union with Haiti?, simple CAricom has neglected its role to help stabilize one of its members.

have you ever seen soldiers of caricom patrolling Haiti? no! besides sending like 200 soldiers after the quake, no one have seen caricom around since.
they come for far away places like Nepal, and Jordan, and caricom? nowhere to be found.

The hypocrisy was so hard to cover that Barbados in a move to save face granted visa free access to Haitians early this year at the same time calling to end the hypocrisy ( but they are a bunch of hypocrites too, as they know is impossible for Haitians to make it to Barbados with out getting other countries visas ). they know they will not get an avalanche of Haitians at their shores. all a PR maneuver to save face.
The US and Spain take in millions of Dominicans. So why complain about the DR taking in lots of Haitians?
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upthere22 View Post
Actually DR receives about the same amount of immigrants in as they send out, about 40k a year.
30k of those are non-haitians.

DR receives a great number of immigrants. For example DR granted about 8,000 "green cards" in the last trimester (April to June 2019).
2000 of those to Haitian immigrants. while the other 6,000 to other immigrants (mostly, Venezuelans, Chinese, Americans and Europeans).
and we are talking people that did all the paper work to get a Residency permit, the number of people just living in DR on tourist vivas might be 10 times larger.

if we extrapolate that to the whole year we can see how DR gets about 25-30k non-Haitian legal immigrants per year.

https://www.migracion.gob.do/Trans/Archives/6919
There are millions of Dominicans in NYC alone.

So who says the DR government is giving off accurate stats?

Obviously many Dominicans donít love the DR.

Itís a third world country.

Saying itís better off than Haiti is not saying much, as Haiti is the poorest nation in the Hemisphere. Compare the DR to Japan, Canada, the US, or any European nation. It comes up short.
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Old 07-31-2019, 11:18 PM
 
24,396 posts, read 17,815,066 times
Reputation: 9232
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrizeWinner View Post
Only thing is you're not a Spaniard and wake up call is many people in Spain will have a problem viewing you as one.Getting Spaniard citizenship through Jewish ancestry is a double edged sword, lets just hope Europe and Spain doesn't get another wave of antisemitism. Some parts of Europe are already experiencing that.
Plus there are many hard right people in Spain that are very much xenophobic.



Its hilarious that bigots like you want to talk about Dominicans self-hate not liking their blackness blah blah, but what to emphasize your Spaniard citizenship because of your great great great extra granddaddy,thing is you probably even knew who your dad was.
100 percent Blacks get Spanish citizenship after living here for two years if they are from the Western Sahara or Equatorial Guinea. Just as Latin Americans can get citizenship here for two years because they are former colonies. Ditto for residents of the Phillipines. It’s easier for people from former colonies to get citizenship in France, Portugal, Britain, and Belgium.

With this in mind nobody in Spain has a problem with my Spanish citizenship. I tell everyone I interact with I’m a citizen and it’s through distant ancestry.

Lots of South Americans get Italian or Spanish ancestry through distant ancestors. I actually live in Europe and know Europe first hand, and don’t have to imagine it or look from it on the outside.

I know who my father is. I know the genealogy very well of both sides of my heritage.

Hahahahaha

But they does not mean I put down being African American. I just benefited from having a particular ancestor.

It’s happened in other cases. My last name is a Jewish last name due to said ancestor abd st times that has helped me with work. The head of my department at Columbia was Jewish abd from my application he probably thought I was (said ancestor was, I’m not).

Last edited by NyWriterdude; 07-31-2019 at 11:32 PM..
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Old 08-01-2019, 02:37 AM
 
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Many Latin Americans have Italian citizenship as anyone who am ancestor who left Italy after 1861 can get Italian citizenship regardless of their skin color.

It may shock people, but European nations grant citizenship due to blood and historical/colonial connection. Not race.
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Many Latin Americans have Italian citizenship as anyone who am ancestor who left Italy after 1861 can get Italian citizenship regardless of their skin color.

It may shock people, but European nations grant citizenship due to blood and historical/colonial connection. Not race.
So does DR, so why has DR to give citizenship to Haitians because they where born there?
DR citizenship is by blood, not soil, just like in Europe, being born in Germany does not make you a German.
same thing with DR.

you finally understood
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:39 AM
 
450 posts, read 159,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
There are millions of Dominicans in NYC alone.

So who says the DR government is giving off accurate stats?

Obviously many Dominicans don’t love the DR.

It’s a third world country.

Saying it’s better off than Haiti is not saying much, as Haiti is the poorest nation in the Hemisphere. Compare the DR to Japan, Canada, the US, or any European nation. It comes up short.


This is the thing, the distance between lets say Spain and DR is not as much as the distance between DR and Haiti.

lets calculate that. let do it with Portugal because has the same amount of people than DR and Haiti.

Portugal GDP(nominal) 195,041
Dominican GDP(nominal) 80,940
Haiti GDP(nominal) 8,408

While Portugal economy is a bit more than 2.4 times larger than DR, Dominican economy is about 10 times larger than Haiti.

if we adjust by cost of living and Purchasing power Parity the gap between Portugal and DR narrows.


Portugal GDP(PPP) 329.241
Dominican GDP(PPP) 189.237
Haiti GDP(PPP) 19,930

Now Portugal Economy is just 70% larger than DR in purchasing power. while DR keeps Being 9 times larger than Haiti.


Lets move to Human Development.

Portugal HDI 0.847
Dominican HDI 0.736
Haiti HDI 0.498

while Portugal is about 109 points ahead of DR. Haiti is 234 points behind DR.

As you can see, keeping the current average economic growth of DR of 6% of the last decade or so
it will take DR about 10-15 years to reach Portugal current development if nothing tragic happens like a Hurricane or a political/economic crisis. DR Human Development index gained 8 points on 2017 and 13 points on 2018. so, if DR can keep that trend, it would take about a decade or 15 years to reach Portugal.


I choose Portugal because of its population but there are poorer countries In the European union like Romania, Croatia, Poland and Hungary. DR is not that far with any of those, DR metrics are pretty similar to Bulgaria in GDP AND PPP.


PS. All statistics come from independent sources like the world bank and IMF.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD

Last edited by upthere22; 08-01-2019 at 08:51 AM..
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:54 AM
 
24,396 posts, read 17,815,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upthere22 View Post
So does DR, so why has DR to give citizenship to Haitians because they where born there?
DR citizenship is by blood, not soil, just like in Europe, being born in Germany does not make you a German.
same thing with DR.

you finally understood
Immigrants to Germany or other nations have a process in which they become citizens. I have not tried to
Become a Dominican citizen so I would not know the procedures to becoming a Dominican citizenship or how hard or easily it is for the Haitians. As I understand there is a process though and some people of Haitian descent have done this.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...tians-citizens

This article reports it as difficult, but apparently if they cane to the DR with papers they can ultimate get Dominican citizenship. If that the case the Dominican government is trying to limit and not outright ban Haitans.

Of course if someone enters from Haiti with no papers thereís no proof there are even Haitian a day yes thatís a real problem for any government. You cannot do a criminal background check in them.

Of course Haiti is complicit in this problem by refusing to allow duel nationality or recognizes these people are Haitians. They are effectively stateless.
Stateless people can get citizenship in Europe,
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Old 08-01-2019, 08:06 AM
 
450 posts, read 159,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Immigrants to Germany or other nations have a process in which they become citizens. I have not tried to
Become a Dominican citizen so I would not know the procedures to becoming a Dominican citizenship or how hard or easily it is for the Haitians. As I understand there is a process though and some people of Haitian descent have done this.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...tians-citizens

This article reports it as difficult, but apparently if they cane to the DR with papers they can ultimate get Dominican citizenship. If that the case the Dominican government is trying to limit and not outright ban Haitans.

Of course if someone enters from Haiti with no papers thereís no proof there are even Haitian a day yes thatís a real problem for any government. You cannot do a criminal background check in them.

Of course Haiti is complicit in this problem by refusing to allow duel nationality or recognizes these people are Haitians. They are effectively stateless.
Stateless people can get citizenship in Europe,
true to all that, you Do have insight on the issue.

At some point Haiti even tried to do not receive deportees back from DR unless DR proved they were Haitians.
a big chunk of the Haitians population has no papers, no birth certificates, nothing.
they cross to DR and it is impossible to determine their identities.
the reason they dont have papers in Haiti is not because Haiti is poor. it is systematic DISENFRANCHISEMENT of the Haitian people by the elites, no papers, no votes.
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Old 08-01-2019, 08:22 AM
 
5,459 posts, read 8,139,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upthere22 View Post
At some point Haiti even tried to do not receive deportees back from DR unless DR proved they were Haitians.
I really had an issue with that, especially when the only language the person spoke fluently was Haitian Creole and they are telling people they were born, grew up, had most of the family in such place in Haiti. Many people were really caught in a limbo due to lacking proper ID documentation from their own government. Everyone knows what place didn’t give them as simple as a birth certificate, to name one issue in the problem.

Some Haitian migrants complain in several Haitian embassy and consulates in the DR because they will take their money with a promise of a passport for regularization, then the Haitian authorities didn’t give many of its own people what it promised or their money back.

The issue with Haitian consulates in the DR taking its own people their money then not giving them what they promised made it to international channels, as can be seen in the following video.


Last edited by AntonioR; 08-01-2019 at 08:31 AM..
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Old 08-01-2019, 08:47 AM
 
450 posts, read 159,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
The US and Spain take in millions of Dominicans. So why complain about the DR taking in lots of Haitians?
DR has one of the lowest amount of illegals in The US, contrary to Haiti, that the majority of people in DR are undocumented, Different situations.
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