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Old 11-04-2018, 06:34 PM
 
19 posts, read 6,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7855 View Post
It´s ok to feel insecure, and belittle others as a result.
So you're completely stumped now. You can't think of anything else. I could never feel "insecure" towards someone with the intelligence of a mongoloid. You're so inept that you actually posted an article that contradicted your own argument. lol
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Old 11-04-2018, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Pereira, Colombia
1,017 posts, read 1,991,218 times
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You´re a class act. I´m done here, people can read this and make their own assumptions about the situation. If having the last word and insulting people makes you feel big, go for it.
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Old 11-04-2018, 06:38 PM
 
5,459 posts, read 8,139,984 times
Reputation: 4312
I find it interesting how foreigners portrayed Dominicans back when an interest to force the DR to accept Haiti's problems as its own was not an agenda as it is now. It must also be said that Haiti wasn't a failed state back then.

Bejamin Blurr (an American)


Report to Annex the DR to the USA (at a time when the USA had lamentable racial issues). To avoid confusion, the DR is also referred to as Santo Domingo, not just its capital city. It's a tradition from centuries ago.


Mr Hyatt Verril (American)


Mr Harrisson (an American from Philadelphia)




Mr Schoenrich


William Read (an American from Massachussetts)



What a difference!

Now demonizing the Dominican people is quite in fashion and, by the looks of things, will continue to be a fashion until the country and the Dominican society is sacrificed.
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,208 posts, read 1,593,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
The DR already has one of the largest Haitian migrant community in the world, with only the USA (which has hundreds of millions of people and millions of square miles and wealthier than most countries) having more. To want the DR to accept even more than what it already has, taking into account it isn’t a giant country and doesn’t have the resource to take up that task even if it wanted to, is precisely asking the DR to be sacrificed so certain people in the USA can feel better about themselves.

Those people are not focusing their attention and efforts to solving a problem such as this:



Instead they devote their energy to demonizing the Dominicans as if shaming those people into accepting an ever growing flow of Haitians is the solution to Haiti’s problems. In case anyone hasn’t noticed, Dominicans had nothing to do with the creation of Haiti’s problems.

Please go to a public hospital in the DR that is overflowed by illegal Haitian immigrants and tell the Dominicans that have to literally be attended on the floor and on sidewalks that they just need to accept the Haitian problem as their own and that DR should let in even more Haitians. You have to see this in person to fully understand it.

In the USA people complain about illegals using public hospital services, but you fall into the need of emergency medical care and everywhere in the US public hospitals there are beds for you, medicine for you, you are treated with the dignity that can be afforded when the resources are abundantly available. That isn’t always the case in Dominican public hospitals filled with people that shouldn’t be there to begin with.
How will US citizens feel good about themselves from the act of the DR allowing immigrants from Haiti? Please expond on that.....

I have been to the DR....so I understand that maybe you want to fix your own problems. But the fixing of those problems or may I say the ineptitude to fix those issues rests solely with your politicians. Haitis issues were expounded by racism exponntially due to the French, American, Spanish (including the other side of Hispanola) conspiring to cripple the country when the revolted. The debt the French said they are owed due to the deaths of its soldiers was just paid back in the 40s....

Who do you get your information from may I ask? As you are spouting rhetoric from right wing media....there is no mass outcry of immigrants utilizing social services bro....the main culprits are natural citizens who refuse to buy health insurance...the insured pay for the un-insured....lets get the facts straight here....

And to be clear....I reside half my time in a "3rd world " country...Brazil. So I see the Venezuelan, Peruvian, Argentinian, etc immigrants flowing thru as Brazil is an emerging economy. And Im from the states so I knwo intimately of all the Dominicans whom flock to her shores in search of a better life. Americans are not saying that people in the DR are asking them to sacrifice the US....so your narrative is completely off base.
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Old 11-04-2018, 08:54 PM
 
5,459 posts, read 8,139,984 times
Reputation: 4312
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLIMMACKEY View Post
How will US citizens feel good about themselves from the act of the DR allowing immigrants from Haiti? Please expond on that.....
Most of the media propaganda, the pressure on the Dominican government, the NGO´s that are constantly criticizing the DR are either based in the USA and/or receive funding from the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLIMMACKEY
I have been to the DR....so I understand that maybe you want to fix your own problems. But the fixing of those problems or may I say the ineptitude to fix those issues rests solely with your politicians.
Every time the DR government decides to tackle the problem it gets severely reprimanded by the US and organizations such as the UN and the OAS. During the last regularization plan of illegals, not only was the process distorted in the media, delegations from the US government, the UN, the OAS, and various NGO groups descended on Santo Domingo to pressure the government against the regularization plan. The samething happens when deportations are intensified, when border vigilance is intensified, and just anout any time the DR government attempts to control the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLIMMACKEY
Haitis issues were expounded by racism exponntially due to the French, American, Spanish (including the other side of Hispanola) conspiring to cripple the country when the revolted. The debt the French said they are owed due to the deaths of its soldiers was just paid back in the 40s....
Haiti was doing fine until Jean Francois Duvalier rose to power. After his death his son took over and once he left in the 1980´s, Haiti has been on a downward spiral like never before. Before then Haiti was actually developing and it was one of the more popular vacation spots in the Caribbean. What happened in colonial times didn´t seem to prevent the country from marching forward. Duvalier is the real reason. He left Haiti in worse shape than he found it.

As for the Spanish involvement in the Haitian Revolution, the governor of the Spanish part of the island (now DR) Joaquin Garcia Moreno actually encouraged the Haitians to revolt. Jean Francois, Touissant Loverture, and even Jean Jacques Dessalines were admitted into the Spanish territory during the uprisings in the 1790´s. The Spanish government admitted them into the batallon de morenos of the army and actually lead the invasion of the town Fort Dauphin (today Fort Liberte) with Spanish officers (all following orders of general Montalvo) leading the Haitian army. The Spaniards encouraged the ex slaves of the French that were in the battalion to massacre the white French population found in the city. There is an eyewitness account of the massacre of Fort Dauphin by a Frenchman that lived in the town and obviously survived. His account is included in Jeremy D Popkin´s book “Facing Racial Revolution: Eyewitness Accounts of the Haitian Insurrection” and he clearly, and angrily, says that the black battalion of the Spanish army that arrived at his town was nothing more that the town´s Frenchmen´s very own slaves. Later in the revolution Haitian leaders such as Touissant and Dessalines treasoned the Spaniards, but Jean Francois remained loyal and for that the Spanish government gave him a pension and made him a Spanish national. To protect his life from possible retaliation by other Haitian leaders that treasoned the Spaniards after all the help they were given, the governor of Spanish Santo Domingo (Joaquin Garcia) decided to send him to Havanna where he can live the rest of his life in the luxury that the government pension permitted him. Once the boat arrived at Havanna, the governor of that colony prohibited Jean Francois from leaving the boat because he distrusted any blacks from Haiti, fearing he would do to Cuba what was being done in French Saint Domingue (today Haiti). Due to that he was taken to Merida in the Yucatan peninsula in New Spain (modern Mexico), where Jean Francois lived the rest of his life in comfort courtesy of the Spanish government for being loyal.

Before the Haitian revolution even started, Spanish Santo Domingo had a law that granted automatic freedom to any runaway slave from another nation (which on the island meant France, the then owners of what is now Haiti). Not only did the law granted them freedom as soon as they stepped on Spanish soil, but to protect them from their French masters entering the Spanish territory searching for their runaway slaves they were automatically made subjects of the King of Spain. That meant that hurting a runaway slave that gained his freedom by entering Spanish territory was automatically an aggression on the Spanish king himself and that meant a guaranteed retaliation from the Spanish government in Santo Domingo. This was one of the reasons the French colonists constantly sent letters to Paris urging their government to take possession by force if necessary of the Spanish part of the island, especially the French colonists that owned plantations on or near the border with the Spanish part of the island.

There´s a neighborhood in Santo Domingo called Los Minas. That neighborhood started as a town founded with the name San Lorenzo de Los Minas. The Spanish government had collected a bunch of runaway slaves from the French near the border and intended to create a town for them, but the blacks refused because the town was going to be created close to the French border. They feared that their French masters would illegally cross and either kidnapp them or hurt them in retaliation. To ensure the peace among the blacks, the Spanish governor decided to create the town near the city of Santo Domingo (as the city grew, the town became a neighborhoid) and decided to name it San Lorenzo de Los Minas because most of the blacks were part of the Mina tribe somewhere in Western Africa. The French never made it that far into Spanish territory and even if they did, their former slaves would had been easily protected by the Spanish government of Santo Domingo.

Dessalines had conveniently forgotten all of that when he decided to invade the eastern part of the island and bring bloodshed and widespread destruction to the Dominican civilian population. What he did today is considered an act of war crime, and he would had been tried in international court. Jean Price Mars, the leading Haitian historian of the 20th century, said that The Campaign of the East was one of the bloodiest, inhuman, and tragic event where the Dominican population became muted victims to his rage and revenge.

That was his way of thanking the help given at the beginning of the revolution, by tormenting as many Dominican civilians to death all over the Spanish territory. Modern Dominicans are direct descendants of the people that managed to save their lives by running and hiding in the woods as the Haitian army lead by Dessalines left a bloodstained trail of destruction. In the mid-1800´s, the English Consul at Port-au-Prince made a tour of the entire island and despite it had been such a long time since Dessalines´ invasion he said in his trips journal that in many areas of the Spanish part of the island he saw evidences of the destruction left by Dessalines, and that the Dominican population had a very negative opinion of the Haitians due to that event. He said the anti-Haitian feelings was widespread among the Dominicans. He even asked a black Dominican why there was this strong dislike towards the Haitian and the black Dominican became saddened and remained quiet. He repeated the question and the black Dominican said “they are too cruel”.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLIMMACKEY
Who do you get your information from may I ask? As you are spouting rhetoric from right wing media....there is no mass outcry of immigrants utilizing social services bro....the main culprits are natural citizens who refuse to buy health insurance...the insured pay for the un-insured....lets get the facts straight here....
Many people make the complaints I mentioned. Lets not pretend that the US is overwhelmingly liberal, because it isn´t. If you donñt believe me, then search “percentage of US population that is liberal”.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLIMMACKEY
And to be clear....I reside half my time in a "3rd world " country...Brazil. So I see the Venezuelan, Peruvian, Argentinian, etc immigrants flowing thru as Brazil is an emerging economy. And Im from the states so I knwo intimately of all the Dominicans whom flock to her shores in search of a better life. Americans are not saying that people in the DR are asking them to sacrifice the US....so your narrative is completely off base.
Brazil´s foreign population makes up a mere 3% of the total population. That country is also huge with a very low population density. In the DR the foreign population is roughly 10% of the total, the bulk of that created in the last 20 years. Plus the DR is small with a considerably higher population density than Brazil.

Its like comparing apples to oranges.

Despite that, not too long ago gigantic Brazil became alarmed with the arrival of a few Haitians. Remember this?



The number of Haitians living in Brazil pales in comparison with the number that is in the DR. How many DR´s fit in Brazil?

Last edited by AntonioR; 11-04-2018 at 09:31 PM..
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Old 11-04-2018, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Northeast
227 posts, read 148,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
One of the persons with xenophobic tendencies is you. There is nothing in those sources that cite mistreatment of the Haitian family that passed through Colombia. I'm not protesting your statement of Colombian stereotyping as criminals or prostitutes as there is truth to that statement. I'm protesting your misleading remarks based on your own xenophobic views. I remember in another thread you once said how Venezuela had more racial tolerance than Colombia. You should look at youtube videos of black Colombian musicians, actors and news reporters and see the amount of comments of Venezuelan people saying how they wish they had that kind of representation of black people in their media/country. Venezuela is way more eurocentric than Colombia is especially in reference to US-Americanisation and consumer orientated in its popular culture.

This is not to say Colombia is a racial paradise by no means. As with countries the world over there is evident eurocentricity which not only manifests outside the black community but especially within the black community itself across the world. However, no other country in Latin America has a mainstream media outlet advocating for pan Afro-Latino rights as Colombia does. Most Colombians are well used to black people in the now especially since the inward migration wave of the 90's/2000's. You can't even distinguish a black person from Haiti from one from the Choco at first glance. You won't get that "careful you bite your fingers off when eating a chocolate ice cream/candy" comment that the Miami Herald reports happened in Chile and that the Chileans all around them laughed. That comes from naivity and little interaction with black people which Colombia doesn't lack. There's still a colossal amount of work to do but believe you me no president like Bolsonaro in Brazil who said "Black people are not even longer useful for procreating", would get elected in Colombia in the current climate - all that could obviously change the way the world is going but I hope not. As for Venezuelan and refugee migrants, Colombia generally has an "Open Arms" policy and the UN has even praised Colombia as such. However, immigration rules are strict and upheld to the letter in most instances but every nation has a right to do this. Colombia has received the same amount of Venezuelan migrants in a space of 2-3 years as the amount of Colombians that went to Venezuela over 4 decades! That is not a measure of a xenophobic society and has been a huge burden on public services. It puts the Euro migrant crisis in nappies and we're comparing industrialised nations like Germany to much more fragile democracies and economies like Colombia or DR.

So I suggest you look in the mirror before you point the finger.

Can you distinguish whether they're Haitian or Colombian?



Critical journalism on black issues at Latin American level based in Colombia.
Firstly, I have nothing whatsoever against Colombians.

Hell, the only South American girl I ever dated was from Colombia and this was back in college.

I was just using Colombia(and Chile) as an example of mistreatment of migrants and citizens who happen to be "black" happening in other countries than the DR.

I did the same thing in another forum where someone generalized all Argentines as "racist." There's no hard feelings to it. I just assumed the 1st guy I spoke to was a Colombian national as opposed to an expat so I tried to point out his hypocrisy using Colombia as an example.

You make good points but I'd say Venezuela embraces a Tri-racial identity more than Colombia on average. There's been many articles from both Colombia and the U.S. on Mestizos being shocked to have "Negro" blood in Colombia while Venezuela traditionally adopted a more Tri-racial identity like Puerto Rico. The Paisa region(mostly Mestizo and white) is the most populated region of Colombia but I'm sure racial issues have improved in Medellin in particular.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL4_ZRwALe8

The comments section would make David Duke cry.....

Also, many Colombians on social media called Steve Harvey the N word with a heavy ER at the end after the Miss Colombia incident.

But, nonetheless, I wouldn't ever say Brazil has better race relations than Colombia. I simply rank Venezuela above both of them as well as the DR. Venezuelans, like Puerto Ricans, dp have racists among its affluent white populations, but the average one seems to be the closest to "color blind" or simply not giving a crap about skin color.

But everyone's going to have different views though. My ex who was from Medellin would certainly testify that Colombians aren't exactly breaking bread with Afro-descendants on a large scale but her parents were cool with me so I know not to generalize.
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Old 11-05-2018, 12:30 AM
 
Location: London, UK
2,899 posts, read 1,583,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarHero45 View Post
You make good points but I'd say Venezuela embraces a Tri-racial identity more than Colombia on average.
1. This is sort of comparing apples with oranges because whilst indeed at a national level Colombia is tri-racial, regionally it isn't. So there's not one identity to embrace. The closest region to being tri-racial is the Caribbean region but even then you'll find marked differences between East and West, coastal vs lowlands and various indigenous tribes from completely different ethnic groups; Arawak, Chibcha and Carib whom totally conserve their traditions and language away from western influenced civilisation. In Venezuela there's not so much that distinction, maybe Barlovento at a push.

2. In fact Venezuelans are very discriminatory towards Native American groups which is why there have been major incidences with Venezuelans in Peru and Ecuador as they boast their euro features and euro-centric beauty whilst belittling those that are more indigenous. Even at a local level in Maracaibo they heavily discriminate the local native tribe. They don't even refer to them by their ethnic name 'Wayuu' and instead use the ambiguous "Guajiro" in a pejorative way. Whilst Colombia is by no means exempt of this there is far more pride and more importantly knowledge about their Indigenous peoples.

Venezuelans claiming to "better the race" in Peru, Panama, Chile and Ecuador.


3. Finally the promotion of a tri-racial identity or 'Mestizaje' itself has partial origins in a subtle form of racism established to wipe out or dilute the African and Native ancestry. Something that many AfroColombians and Indigenous tribes fought to curtail by protecting their identity. Colombia is the only country (aside from the Mapuches in Chile) that had a free Native American nation as they forced the king of Spain to sign a decree. It's also the only country in Latin America that still preserves an African based language and the Pacific coast is one of the most Afro-centric regions of the Americas with UNESCO heritage status due to its intact African traditions. The people of the Choco are as close to having 100% African DNA more-so than almost any other region in the Americas aside from perhaps Haiti.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarHero45 View Post
There's been many articles from both Colombia and the U.S. on Mestizos being shocked to have "Negro" blood in Colombia
I haven't seen evidence of this. Most people aren't surprised at all especially as they tend to be minimal amounts in most of the DNA reaction videos I've seen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarHero45 View Post
Also, many Colombians on social media called Steve Harvey the N word with a heavy ER at the end after the Miss Colombia incident.
That terminology doesn't have the gravitas it has in the English language for obvious reason. In fact its seen as a cool word used in movies and rap videos as explained by Cartess Ross.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarHero45 View Post
The Paisa region(mostly Mestizo and white) is the most populated region of Colombia
You've said this before and I've corrected you on this fact before. The most populous region is the Cundi-Boyacense region followed by the Caribbean region. The Paisa region is the 3rd most populous and yes the Paisa region is perhaps the most racist region in Colombia and I say this as someone of Paisa descent.

However, black representation in Colombia far exceeds that in Venezuela and Dan Jackson, a popular "black" Venezuelan youtuber has spoken to the negative connotations of being black in Venezuela.

Finally, you singled out Colombia when referring to mistreatment of Haitians and proceeded to invoke Colombia's negative stereotypes simply referencing an article which didn't even make reference to your argument, specifically when singling out the country. I'm still baffled but happy to let bygones be bygones, as you say we all have different opinions. I'll stop the off-topic here.

Last edited by Pueblofuerte; 11-05-2018 at 12:40 AM..
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Old 11-05-2018, 08:49 AM
 
Location: London, UK
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Final FYI, I don't see any other country in the hemisphere aside from some francophone islands embracing contempory African popular music as much as Colombia does. Just look in the comments of Africans from the continent commenting on Colombians dancing their music.



Do you see this in Venezuela? No, you don't. All you see is tamborito which is a watered down version of colombian mapale which have become national symbols of african origin. However, this is different from Colombians actively seeking out modern African expressions.





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Old 11-05-2018, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,208 posts, read 1,593,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Most of the media propaganda, the pressure on the Dominican government, the NGO´s that are constantly criticizing the DR are either based in the USA and/or receive funding from the US.


Every time the DR government decides to tackle the problem it gets severely reprimanded by the US and organizations such as the UN and the OAS. During the last regularization plan of illegals, not only was the process distorted in the media, delegations from the US government, the UN, the OAS, and various NGO groups descended on Santo Domingo to pressure the government against the regularization plan. The samething happens when deportations are intensified, when border vigilance is intensified, and just anout any time the DR government attempts to control the problem.


Haiti was doing fine until Jean Francois Duvalier rose to power. After his death his son took over and once he left in the 1980´s, Haiti has been on a downward spiral like never before. Before then Haiti was actually developing and it was one of the more popular vacation spots in the Caribbean. What happened in colonial times didn´t seem to prevent the country from marching forward. Duvalier is the real reason. He left Haiti in worse shape than he found it.

As for the Spanish involvement in the Haitian Revolution, the governor of the Spanish part of the island (now DR) Joaquin Garcia Moreno actually encouraged the Haitians to revolt. Jean Francois, Touissant Loverture, and even Jean Jacques Dessalines were admitted into the Spanish territory during the uprisings in the 1790´s. The Spanish government admitted them into the batallon de morenos of the army and actually lead the invasion of the town Fort Dauphin (today Fort Liberte) with Spanish officers (all following orders of general Montalvo) leading the Haitian army. The Spaniards encouraged the ex slaves of the French that were in the battalion to massacre the white French population found in the city. There is an eyewitness account of the massacre of Fort Dauphin by a Frenchman that lived in the town and obviously survived. His account is included in Jeremy D Popkin´s book “Facing Racial Revolution: Eyewitness Accounts of the Haitian Insurrection” and he clearly, and angrily, says that the black battalion of the Spanish army that arrived at his town was nothing more that the town´s Frenchmen´s very own slaves. Later in the revolution Haitian leaders such as Touissant and Dessalines treasoned the Spaniards, but Jean Francois remained loyal and for that the Spanish government gave him a pension and made him a Spanish national. To protect his life from possible retaliation by other Haitian leaders that treasoned the Spaniards after all the help they were given, the governor of Spanish Santo Domingo (Joaquin Garcia) decided to send him to Havanna where he can live the rest of his life in the luxury that the government pension permitted him. Once the boat arrived at Havanna, the governor of that colony prohibited Jean Francois from leaving the boat because he distrusted any blacks from Haiti, fearing he would do to Cuba what was being done in French Saint Domingue (today Haiti). Due to that he was taken to Merida in the Yucatan peninsula in New Spain (modern Mexico), where Jean Francois lived the rest of his life in comfort courtesy of the Spanish government for being loyal.

Before the Haitian revolution even started, Spanish Santo Domingo had a law that granted automatic freedom to any runaway slave from another nation (which on the island meant France, the then owners of what is now Haiti). Not only did the law granted them freedom as soon as they stepped on Spanish soil, but to protect them from their French masters entering the Spanish territory searching for their runaway slaves they were automatically made subjects of the King of Spain. That meant that hurting a runaway slave that gained his freedom by entering Spanish territory was automatically an aggression on the Spanish king himself and that meant a guaranteed retaliation from the Spanish government in Santo Domingo. This was one of the reasons the French colonists constantly sent letters to Paris urging their government to take possession by force if necessary of the Spanish part of the island, especially the French colonists that owned plantations on or near the border with the Spanish part of the island.

There´s a neighborhood in Santo Domingo called Los Minas. That neighborhood started as a town founded with the name San Lorenzo de Los Minas. The Spanish government had collected a bunch of runaway slaves from the French near the border and intended to create a town for them, but the blacks refused because the town was going to be created close to the French border. They feared that their French masters would illegally cross and either kidnapp them or hurt them in retaliation. To ensure the peace among the blacks, the Spanish governor decided to create the town near the city of Santo Domingo (as the city grew, the town became a neighborhoid) and decided to name it San Lorenzo de Los Minas because most of the blacks were part of the Mina tribe somewhere in Western Africa. The French never made it that far into Spanish territory and even if they did, their former slaves would had been easily protected by the Spanish government of Santo Domingo.

Dessalines had conveniently forgotten all of that when he decided to invade the eastern part of the island and bring bloodshed and widespread destruction to the Dominican civilian population. What he did today is considered an act of war crime, and he would had been tried in international court. Jean Price Mars, the leading Haitian historian of the 20th century, said that The Campaign of the East was one of the bloodiest, inhuman, and tragic event where the Dominican population became muted victims to his rage and revenge.

That was his way of thanking the help given at the beginning of the revolution, by tormenting as many Dominican civilians to death all over the Spanish territory. Modern Dominicans are direct descendants of the people that managed to save their lives by running and hiding in the woods as the Haitian army lead by Dessalines left a bloodstained trail of destruction. In the mid-1800´s, the English Consul at Port-au-Prince made a tour of the entire island and despite it had been such a long time since Dessalines´ invasion he said in his trips journal that in many areas of the Spanish part of the island he saw evidences of the destruction left by Dessalines, and that the Dominican population had a very negative opinion of the Haitians due to that event. He said the anti-Haitian feelings was widespread among the Dominicans. He even asked a black Dominican why there was this strong dislike towards the Haitian and the black Dominican became saddened and remained quiet. He repeated the question and the black Dominican said “they are too cruel”.


Many people make the complaints I mentioned. Lets not pretend that the US is overwhelmingly liberal, because it isn´t. If you donñt believe me, then search “percentage of US population that is liberal”.


Brazil´s foreign population makes up a mere 3% of the total population. That country is also huge with a very low population density. In the DR the foreign population is roughly 10% of the total, the bulk of that created in the last 20 years. Plus the DR is small with a considerably higher population density than Brazil.

Its like comparing apples to oranges.

Despite that, not too long ago gigantic Brazil became alarmed with the arrival of a few Haitians. Remember this?



The number of Haitians living in Brazil pales in comparison with the number that is in the DR. How many DR´s fit in Brazil?
As I stated, you get your info from right wing media sources. There is no outcry in any city that the overwhelming majority of social services is being taken advantage of by immigrants. There is what used to be the fringe, now overt xenophobic that have been emboldened by the political majority. You say many people....whats the %'g? Because you also state that the US is a minority Liberal country. If it were as simple as you make it seem, and as of today the White House, House of Representatives and Congress are all Republican, then why havent laws been passed to overtly ban immigrants and stop all social services they consume? Why has that wall NOT been funded?

And where are the hundreds of millions of people who will feel good about themselves with the sacrifice of the DR to Haitian immigrants? What sanctions have been placed either economically or geo-politically on the DR for not taking in Haitians? The narrative you have seems more like shaming......

And do you think Haiti was actually doing good then? With an unsubstantiated 190 billion franc debt? For revolting against colonizers? That debt is part of the reason the country could not get on its feet...as well as the post conflict debt that France so "kindly" forgave........

So lets talk about Brazils foreign population....that 3% is unsubstantiated because there is no way to know what the real number is. The immigrants dont have any of the legal docs required for the most part. And the country is no UK, US, France, Germany, etc...meaning it may be an emerging market but by far the population is poor and the social services lacking. It compares really well with the DR....land size does not matter when it comes to the geo political rhetoric. At the end of the day, you have 2 bvasically 3rd world countries with weak currencies, political instability, social and socio-economic issues, and an influx of immigrants (leal and illegal) coming to their borders for better ops. The Brazilian government is not fully servicing its own residents as well as it could be but its not due to immigration..its due to political corruption. Do you not concede that that has plagued the DR as well???

I understand as a world resident that the residents of any country want the natives to be taken care of or at least thought of first by their government. The issues at home always take precedent. But to sat others are wanting your demise via immigration is ridiculous. But may I ask if other countries should close its borers to Dominicans? It may help you stop the brain drain and keep your most valuable resource...human capital, within your own borders....what say you???
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Old 11-05-2018, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Pereira, Colombia
1,017 posts, read 1,991,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post


You've said this before and I've corrected you on this fact before. The most populous region is the Cundi-Boyacense region followed by the Caribbean region. The Paisa region is the 3rd most populous and yes the Paisa region is perhaps the most racist region in Colombia and I say this as someone of Paisa descent.
.
It takes a lot of humility and honesty to admit that, but you´re generally correct. We all hope that this will change in the future, but in the meantime, I think there is somewhat of a valid explanation...in the bad old days this was easily the most isolated region of the country. That emotional trauma has stoked mistrust of outsiders, and then abruptly, foreign tourists and Venezuelan migrants arrive in droves and some people don´t know what to think, and more uncomfortable, how to act!

I wouldn´t exactly call the city where I live (Pereira) cosmopolitan, but we have a small, integrated community of chocoanos and most Venezuelans seem pretty grateful for coming here and usually finding work. The UTP draws students from all over the country, especially indigenous kids from places like Cauca and Nariño.

30 minutes north in Marsella there´s really not much contact with outsiders, and this scandal broke a while back:

https://www.semana.com/nacion/articu...ombia/410458-3

Do this gentleman´s comments reflect the mentality of the whole town? No. I just take it as a lack of exposure maybe causing a fear of outsiders. That´s usually how societies work.
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