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View Poll Results: Mexico City or Santiago De Chile to live abroad (learn Spanish and work)
Mexico City 10 43.48%
Santiago De Chile 13 56.52%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-17-2018, 03:25 PM
 
Location: London, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
This is probably one of the greatest museums in the Americas, period.
In the world, full stop! It definitely is, I went twice when I was there.

The only thing that appeals to me about Santiago is the view of the Andes. Chile's appeal is its vineyards and nature. The rest feels bland and Mexico city is doable for me on a security level, I'm not phased by a possible armed robbery not that its sooo common place as some people believe. More-so than most places sure but not the status quo.
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Old 12-17-2018, 04:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iMarvin View Post
Do you have any proof of this or are you just making it up as you go?
Proof of what exactly?

LA, NY, SF, Chicago, Vancouver, Seattle, Toronto attract tons of immigrants because because they have global companies headquatered there. On the other hand the average salary in Mexico is 6,400 USD yearly. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to make as much in a month in the US, so it's no surprise immigrants who rather head to the US, Canada or Europe. Sure, moving people aren't only after financial gain but that is the #1 reason for emigrating. Sure, there are some high profile expats but those are far and few between and can't be really called immigrants since they only move for a short period of time.
Even for Central America it's particularly attractive. Guatemala's daily minimum wage was $10.9 in 2016 while in Mexico it was $3.94 in 2017. As a result "a total of 66,868 immigrants from Guatemala, Honduras, Belize, El Salvador, Costa Rica, Panama and Nicaragua living in Mexico in 2010". It only makes sense, why would someone leave their homeland for another country with the problems they're running from, low wages, corruption, insecurity, and risk facing discrimination ? I know I wouldn't, and probably you wouldn't either.



I guess if you want to call Mexico City you can, but then the top 30 cities in US-Canada, all European capitals, and another 20 cities in Asia would qualify too.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigr...ntral_American



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ges_by_country
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Old 12-17-2018, 05:00 PM
 
Location: NYntarctica
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Mexico City has more history, better food, more charm, and has more things to do. Santiago de Chile certainly has a much higher standard of living, salaries, and quality of life. CDMX to visit, but Santiago to live in
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Old 12-17-2018, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Evanston & Lake Forest, Illinois
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You really want Mexico City if learning Spanish is important to you. Chilean Spanish does not have a good reputation.
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Old 12-18-2018, 02:08 AM
 
Location: Macao
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I spent a few weeks in Santiago Chile. I liked it, but it felt a bit provincial. You really feel like you are on the edge of the world, and the Chilean way of speaking Spanish is a bit different as well.

Mexico City feels very global/international when I think of it, granted I have not been there. But it seems more internationally connected.

I guess this would be like comparing New York City with...ahmm...Albuquerque?
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Old 12-18-2018, 07:57 PM
 
251 posts, read 189,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_stick View Post
Proof of what exactly?

LA, NY, SF, Chicago, Vancouver, Seattle, Toronto attract tons of immigrants because because they have global companies headquatered there. On the other hand the average salary in Mexico is 6,400 USD yearly. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to make as much in a month in the US, so it's no surprise immigrants who rather head to the US, Canada or Europe. Sure, moving people aren't only after financial gain but that is the #1 reason for emigrating. Sure, there are some high profile expats but those are far and few between and can't be really called immigrants since they only move for a short period of time.
Even for Central America it's particularly attractive. Guatemala's daily minimum wage was $10.9 in 2016 while in Mexico it was $3.94 in 2017. As a result "a total of 66,868 immigrants from Guatemala, Honduras, Belize, El Salvador, Costa Rica, Panama and Nicaragua living in Mexico in 2010". It only makes sense, why would someone leave their homeland for another country with the problems they're running from, low wages, corruption, insecurity, and risk facing discrimination ? I know I wouldn't, and probably you wouldn't either.



I guess if you want to call Mexico City you can, but then the top 30 cities in US-Canada, all European capitals, and another 20 cities in Asia would qualify too.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigr...ntral_American



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ges_by_country
Saying that LA, NY, Chicago, Seattle, Vancouver, or Toronto are global cities and CDMX isn't based on the criteria of global corporation headquarters is a moot point.

How many times do we need to go over this with you before you realize that CDMX is a global center on par with LA and DEFINITELY above Vancouver!

You keep going back to comparing wages at the national level. Why are you lumping in the deeply impoverished states of Mexico's more undeveloped regions with Mexico City's performance? They are hundreds of miles away from the city and of course their lack of development and opportunity is illustrated in the low "average" national wage as you pointed out earlier.

Should we lump in the GDP/average incomes of the poorest areas of the American South (i.e. rural Mississippi) with Chicago? By your argument I guess we should... and we would arrive at another poorly informed conclusion.

Now, as we have all been pointing out to you time and time again, a significant percentage of Mexico's economic output is shouldered by the productivity of it's single global city, CDMX!

Mexico City is a critical financial hub and a center for communication and entertainment for Latin America (by definition a region covering 1½ continents)! And therefore a major economic player for all of the Americas. It has held this position for centuries now.

I suggest you navigate to a previous page where I posted a series of photos that portray the jarring inequality in the city.The photos capture not just the slums but also the immense wealth concentrated in CDMX. The wealthy side of Mexico is rarely talked about in international media. That's why so many Americans mistakenly believe that Mexico City is an unattractive place of dirt, donkeys, and poor people.

Last edited by sf_arkitect; 12-18-2018 at 08:14 PM..
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Old 12-19-2018, 11:57 AM
 
410 posts, read 182,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sf_arkitect View Post
Saying that LA, NY, Chicago, Seattle, Vancouver, or Toronto are global cities and CDMX isn't based on the criteria of global corporation headquarters is a moot point.

How many times do we need to go over this with you before you realize that CDMX is a global center on par with LA and DEFINITELY above Vancouver!
I hear what you say. Vancouver's population is highly diverse despite being much smaller than MC. Economic opportunities attract people from all over the world Latin-Americans, Asians and even Europeans. In fact, 30% of Vancouver's population is Chinese, that's no surprise there since water is to salt what immigrants are to wealth. Immigration to MC is anecdotal. Retirees, expats and Chicanos/Mexican-Americans don't count as immigrants since they are long-term tourists, short-term residents, or have sentimental ties to the country. If MC is all you're saying, wouldn't there be immigration candidates lined up outside of Mexican consulates desperate for landing a work visa? Why do many millions of Mexicans chose to try their luck abroad rather than there?
It's sounds all very conflicting, do you care to address those points?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sf_arkitect View Post
Mexico City is a critical financial hub and a center for communication and entertainment for Latin America (by definition a region covering 1½ continents)! And therefore a major economic player for all of the Americas. It has held this position for centuries now.
Spanish-speaking LA, better saying. Brazil alone accounts for most of South America and has its own entertainment players eg Globo. Brazil and São Paulo are the largest economies in LA, but still medium-income.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sf_arkitect View Post
The wealthy side of Mexico is rarely talked about in international media. That's why so many Americans mistakenly believe that Mexico City is an unattractive place of dirt, donkeys, and poor people.
There's a trend in the US portraying Mexicans as greasy bean-eaters peasants with golden teeth. I don't deny the stereotype exist, I don't deny it's as wrong as inaccurate. It's nothing but abuse and shouldn't be tolerated. Some Americans love to cling keep that idiotic stereotype because the it is seen as an easy feel-good mental artifact.
That said, MC isn't any more the Switzerland you're depicting. 2 wrongs do not make 1 right.

Last edited by iron_stick; 12-19-2018 at 12:36 PM..
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Old 12-19-2018, 12:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVANGELISTTI View Post
People living with USD 2 PPP / day are beggars man! All countries have beggars including the most richers.
People living with USD 10 day are still poor! I am Brazilian not Chilean, and I reconize the simple fact they don’t have slums areas what is common in most big Latin America cities put them in another level of development,

As of 2017 there were 81 campamentos (slums) and 4337 families in them, in the Santiago metro area, according to Techo: Monitor de Campamentos | CIS | TECHO Chile

Quote:
in Chile the poorest is the low middle class in the Latin America standard.
lol far from that. Chile is indeed the most developed LatAm country, but it's not miles ahead from other countries in the region.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SenseofPlace View Post
Oh I agree completely. Chile is really on a different level than Brazil when it comes to development, social issues such as inequality and crime. The list goes on.
inequality... not really, both countries have very similar Gini value, close to 0,50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warszawa View Post
Mexico City has more history, better food, more charm, and has more things to do. Santiago de Chile certainly has a much higher standard of living, salaries, and quality of life. CDMX to visit, but Santiago to live in

"much higher"... not really, as I said, they're barely higher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sf_arkitect View Post

Mexico City is a critical financial hub and a center for communication and entertainment for Latin America (by definition a region covering 1½ continents)! And therefore a major economic player for all of the Americas. It has held this position for centuries now.
.

this is true, Mexico City is a magnet for people from all over LatAm who work in show bussiness, music, cinema, tv, etc. Many Colombians, Argentinians, etc go to Mexico to succeed in these fields. Even people linked to e-games, youtubers, etc.
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Old 12-19-2018, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Canada
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Which city is more socially liberal?
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Old 12-19-2018, 11:39 PM
 
251 posts, read 189,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_stick View Post
I hear what you say. Vancouver's population is highly diverse despite being much smaller than MC. Economic opportunities attract people from all over the world Latin-Americans, Asians and even Europeans. In fact, 30% of Vancouver's population is Chinese, that's no surprise there since water is to salt what immigrants are to wealth. Immigration to MC is anecdotal. Retirees, expats and Chicanos/Mexican-Americans don't count as immigrants since they are long-term tourists, short-term residents, or have sentimental ties to the country. If MC is all you're saying, wouldn't there be immigration candidates lined up outside of Mexican consulates desperate for landing a work visa? Why do many millions of Mexicans chose to try their luck abroad rather than there?
It's sounds all very conflicting, do you care to address those points?

Spanish-speaking LA, better saying. Brazil alone accounts for most of South America and has its own entertainment players eg Globo. Brazil and São Paulo are the largest economies in LA, but still medium-income.

There's a trend in the US portraying Mexicans as greasy bean-eaters peasants with golden teeth. I don't deny the stereotype exist, I don't deny it's as wrong as inaccurate. It's nothing but abuse and shouldn't be tolerated. Some Americans love to cling keep that idiotic stereotype because the it is seen as an easy feel-good mental artifact.
That said, MC isn't any more the Switzerland you're depicting. 2 wrongs do not make 1 right.
Ok...to counter your first point, do you know the reasons for the rapid population growth of the Mexican Federal District from the 1960's to the 1990s?

Why did the city nearly double in size from around 4 million to almost 8 million between the 1960s and the 1980s?

What propelled the massive urban expansion of the city into the megalopolis that it is today (estimated at nearly 20 million people in the Great CDMX region)?

It was mass migration of Mexicans from other parts of the country into the city seeking OPPORTUNITY. Jobs.

As Mexico's economy stabilized in the 1940s, the country underwent an economic expansion called the Mexican Miracle. Mexico City was the urban area that benefited the most during this era of economic growth (the Mexican Miracle would last into the mid-70s). The city quickly began to modernize and the government initiated several large infrastructure programs during this period (e.g. the CDMX metro system, 1968 Olympic Games infrastructure, etc).

This caused a massive influx of Mexicans from the impoverished rural areas of Mexico. By the 1970's, the Municipal and Federal authorities could not keep up with the rate of urban expansion. Slums began to emerge and they spread up to the foot hills of volcanic ranges encircling the city.

Now, Mexico City's economy has continued to grow, but with 20 million people in the metro area, and provided the unequal distribution of wealth and power into the hands of a few areas in the city, the majority of migrants remain impoverished. And many have little hope of advancing their lot.

That said, Mexico City is home to the largest middle class population in the country. And the large universities in the city continue to offer a step up for many into the educated professional work force.

Some might wonder why Mexico City is the center of a disproportionate amount of wealth and development in Mexico? The reason has to do with historical precedent.

The political structure in Mexico has been highly centralized for many centuries. Naturally, the capital would be the biggest beneficiary of the nation's political and economic system. This has resulted in much of the remainder of the country (with the possible exception of Guadalajara, Monterrey, and Queretaro) seeing little to no benefits during past cycles of economic expansion.


SO the reason I brought this up was to show that Mexico City has been the recipient of millions of people seeking better prospects, and it continues to draw many people for economic opportunity.

Initially it has been primarily Mexicans from more rural states, however a lot of professional and educated Latin Americans from other capitals are immigrating to Mexico City in increasing numbers because the city has established itself as sort of "the big gig" for most industries in Spanish speaking America. Many Argentines, Chileans, Colombians, etc. come to Mexico City to make it big in the rest of Latin America.

And as for Vancouver..... that city is only super wealthy because thousands of rich Chinese have gone there to park their money overseas (in a home/condo) or to send their child to a western university.

Vancouver is known as the city where one goes to retire after making their fortune elsewhere. Vancouver's economy is too small to sustain enough high paying professional jobs to fill the massive inventory of luxury real estate that has been built there over the last 25 years. Vancouver is rich primarily because of wealth generated outside of Canada. :/

Last edited by sf_arkitect; 12-20-2018 at 12:04 AM..
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