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Old 03-01-2019, 03:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLIMMACKEY View Post
The President cannot naturalize or "regularize" any refugee/immigrant with a temporary status. I dont even believe that he can with by Executive Order. Capital Hill would have to pass legislation I would assume.

So blaming Obama for not "regularizing" Haitians, Sudanese, Nepalese, Nicaraguans, etc. is a bit disingenuous. To me it speaks volumes on certain politicians that want to lump those Haitians into the immigration debate with illegal immigration politics of the day. I do believe, as I think you do as well, that there should be some forward moving progress to naturalize those Haitians or others that want to stay and build lives for themselves.


Obama and the Dems controlled the House and the Senate for 2 years. They didn't fix this problem, so yes he deserves as much blame as does Trump. TEMPORARY means that things eventually have to end. People on TPS always lived on borrowed time.


And to show what Obama thought of the matter, when Haitians arrived at Tijuana in 2016 when Haiti was suffering from several hurricanes Obama REFUSED to include them under the TPS. So Tijuana just added a new immigrant group and luckily for the Haitians there seems to be a shortage of low wage menial jobs. But some were deported from Mexico though.
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Old 03-01-2019, 04:22 PM
 
142 posts, read 34,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
So says Dominican mythology in its desperate need to show that they aren't black. If the Haitians so badly treated the Polish why did they remain in Haiti and even intermarry with black Haitians. The rule I bet was one put in force just after the revolution aimed at preventing white slave owners from re-entering Haiti.


Trujillo tried hard to get whites to settle in the DR. He treated Haitians and even Cocolos badly. What notions do you draw from that?


Trujillo allowed the entry of tens of thousands of black Haitians to cut cane. And then encouraged the stigmatization of these same people as part of a divide and rule. Dominican elites even today hire illegal Haitians, but then whip up anti Haitianism, exending even to those born in the DR, when they see fit. They want cheap Haitian labor but do not want a Haitian presence in the DR.


The fact remains that a mulatto elite, one that identified very much with "whiteness" has ruled Haiti for a long time. Skin colorism is a major issue in that nation, even today. Its the black Haitians who bleach. The mulatto Haitians stay out of the sun as they don't want to get dark. NOT an anti white society from what I see but I understand why certain Dominicans need to tell themselves this.
All those are historical events that you know are true. you tray to say haitians did not try to ethnic-cleanse the dominicans of the island, those are historical facts.

You conveniently want to forget that Dessalines ordered the execution of all white French people on the island?. known as 1804 Haiti massacre. The massacre resulted in the deaths of between 3,000 and 5,000 people of all ages and genders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre

Do you want to forget that Dessalines ordered the extermination of all white Spanish people in the towns of Moca And Santiago?

Do you want to forget that the Haitians brought black settlers from the US in an attempt to displace the local Dominican population.?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saman%C3%A1_Americans

Haiti was founded as an ethno-black state that systematically tried to exterminate the Dominican population.

there are hundreds of books about it, you just dont want to know about that part of the story---conveniently

Haiti banned all whites from citizenship and land ownership:

Article 12 of the Haitian constitution:
No whiteman of whatever nation he may be, shall put his foot on this territory with the title of master or proprietor, neither shall he in future acquire any property therein.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Const...of_Hayti_(1805)

Even the New York times in 1859 knew about the Haitians Hate for Dominicans and the attempts to exterminate them.
Didnt President Souluque try to invade RD 8 times?
Attached Thumbnails
So much hatred of Haitians-soluque-2-.jpg   So much hatred of Haitians-soluque-1-.jpg  

Last edited by Snapshoot; 03-01-2019 at 05:17 PM..
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Old 03-04-2019, 05:27 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,937,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post
All those are historical events that you know are true. you tray to say haitians did not try to ethnic-cleanse the dominicans of the island, those are historical facts.

?


Stop pushing facts that NO ONE in 2019 is interested in. How many people in the DR think that Haiti, a nation which cannot even feed itself and provide education and healthcare for its people, has any designs on the DR? Most Dominicans would laugh at any notion of this, if put outside of the context of this Trujillo/Balaguer nonsense. If anything the DR is more of a threat.


Why not just focus on the fact that Haiti is a failed state. The DR is also poor, even if considerably less so than Haiti, so they cannot be expected to assume the burdens that many Haitian illegal entrants might wish it to.




Having said this many Dominicans have Haitian ancestry and ought to be treated just as other Dominicans are. Conflating contemporary illegal immigration from Haiti with Dominicans whose ancestry is Haitian is what looks the DR look stupid. BOTH the DR and Haiti consist of people who have significant African ancestry, so rambling about Haitians being "anti white" is so pathetic given that 90% of Dominicans aren't either. The Haitian elites look very much the same as do most Dominicans, and in fact can easily be ,mistaken for each other!


You know why so many people, including many Latin Americans, laugh at Dominicans, is this pathetic grasping of "whiteness", even more in fact than do the "whiter" Puerto Ricans (some of whom also laugh at this).
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Old 03-05-2019, 07:27 AM
 
142 posts, read 34,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Stop pushing facts that NO ONE in 2019 is interested in. How many people in the DR think that Haiti, a nation which cannot even feed itself and provide education and healthcare for its people, has any designs on the DR? Most Dominicans would laugh at any notion of this, if put outside of the context of this Trujillo/Balaguer nonsense. If anything the DR is more of a threat.


Why not just focus on the fact that Haiti is a failed state. The DR is also poor, even if considerably less so than Haiti, so they cannot be expected to assume the burdens that many Haitian illegal entrants might wish it to.




Having said this many Dominicans have Haitian ancestry and ought to be treated just as other Dominicans are. Conflating contemporary illegal immigration from Haiti with Dominicans whose ancestry is Haitian is what looks the DR look stupid. BOTH the DR and Haiti consist of people who have significant African ancestry, so rambling about Haitians being "anti white" is so pathetic given that 90% of Dominicans aren't either. The Haitian elites look very much the same as do most Dominicans, and in fact can easily be ,mistaken for each other!


You know why so many people, including many Latin Americans, laugh at Dominicans, is this pathetic grasping of "whiteness", even more in fact than do the "whiter" Puerto Ricans (some of whom also laugh at this).
No one is interested? go ask the Dominicans if they are not interested. this is the bottom of the issue in that island. the Dominican republic is a country formed as a reaction to the ethnic-cleansing attempts executed by the Haitians. they were united for 22 years but the Haitians never stopped trying to get get rid of them.

today Dominicans do not trust Haitians because of that. this is the bottom of the issue.
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Old 03-05-2019, 04:32 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,937,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post
No one is interested? go ask the Dominicans if they are not interested. this is the bottom of the issue in that island. .




Seriously. Who in the DR in 2019 is suffering from what the Haitians ALLEGEDLY did (based on Trujillo propaganda) in 1844?


Do you think that Americans still hate Canada for invading in 1812? This the British, thru Canada did invade the USA within 40 years of that nation winning its independence from them.


A valid complaint is one that says that large numbers of Haitians illegally entered the DR within recent years, and especially since the earthquake, and have distorted labor markets, reducing wages down and making it more difficult for low skilled Dominicans to find work. Though I will argue that Dominicans do the same thing in the USVI, BVI, St Maarten, St Kitts, Curacao, and Antigua. As well as Puerto Rico.


Pretending that Dominicans really still do fear Haiti conquering the DR and killing them off is pure fiction, and a sign of mental instability.


Another sign of mental instability is when Dominicans base an animosity towards Haitians because Haitians ALLEGEDLY killed people merely for being white (how did the Polish escape this slaughter?) when in fact most Dominicans are either of mixed or of predominant African ancestry. So they are NOT white and so wouldn't have been impacted by this genocide if indeed it occurred.

I can see Cubans with that paranoia given the large white population that lives there, but Dominicans.............yes another Trujillo/Balaguer evidence of mental instability that Haitians are to blame for the DR's small white population.


Its comments like this that generate the image of Dominicans being a self hating and delusional people. I doubt that most Dominicans manifest this paranoia. People from Santo Domingo have told me that the folks from the Cibao seem to manifest the delusion that they are white, so must hate Haitians. Are you from Santiago?
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Old 03-06-2019, 07:21 AM
 
142 posts, read 34,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Seriously. Who in the DR in 2019 is suffering from what the Haitians ALLEGEDLY did (based on Trujillo propaganda) in 1844?


Do you think that Americans still hate Canada for invading in 1812? This the British, thru Canada did invade the USA within 40 years of that nation winning its independence from them.


A valid complaint is one that says that large numbers of Haitians illegally entered the DR within recent years, and especially since the earthquake, and have distorted labor markets, reducing wages down and making it more difficult for low skilled Dominicans to find work. Though I will argue that Dominicans do the same thing in the USVI, BVI, St Maarten, St Kitts, Curacao, and Antigua. As well as Puerto Rico.


Pretending that Dominicans really still do fear Haiti conquering the DR and killing them off is pure fiction, and a sign of mental instability.


Another sign of mental instability is when Dominicans base an animosity towards Haitians because Haitians ALLEGEDLY killed people merely for being white (how did the Polish escape this slaughter?) when in fact most Dominicans are either of mixed or of predominant African ancestry. So they are NOT white and so wouldn't have been impacted by this genocide if indeed it occurred.

I can see Cubans with that paranoia given the large white population that lives there, but Dominicans.............yes another Trujillo/Balaguer evidence of mental instability that Haitians are to blame for the DR's small white population.


Its comments like this that generate the image of Dominicans being a self hating and delusional people. I doubt that most Dominicans manifest this paranoia. People from Santo Domingo have told me that the folks from the Cibao seem to manifest the delusion that they are white, so must hate Haitians. Are you from Santiago?
you racist assumption that this is about race is all you need to see of your own argument.
having a large population of black people in DR do not means that Dominicans have to do anything to help Haiti at all.
or that they should allow their country to be taken over.
Haitians have historically tried to ethnic-cleanse the Dominicans despite the fact the they are also heavily black.
this is not about the few whites in DR, this about Haitians historically wanting to form a all black, afro-centric nation in the land of the Dominicans.
Dominicans have their own history and culture and dont want to be part of such a project.
the issue with Haitians is not that the are black, is that they are Haitians. (Dominicans do not want anything to do with that country and its mind set)


Those are not the facts on the ground, and you truly lack understanding of the situation.
there are about 2 million Haitians in RD. lost of them have power to vote.
how long until Haitians became a major political force in such a small country?
how long until they elect a president?
how long until that president erode the institutions of DR to the benefits of the Haitians?.
how long until full balkanization?
Eastern Europe is full of examples to choose from.
Haitians today represent an existential treat to the long term survival of the DR.

Historically DR HAS LOST 5000 SQUARE KILOMETERS because of Haitians settlers outnumbered the Dominicans and to avoid conflict the land has transferred to Haiti.
the border has been moving east.

DR has never invaded Haiti, Haiti invaded DR for 22 years and then attempted invasion 8 more times.

Haiti did try to ethnic-cleanse the Dominicans of their own land.

DR is tired of being in the losing end when it comes to Haiti. The international community should deal with it, not DR.


and this is the issue right there.
Attached Thumbnails
So much hatred of Haitians-images-haiti.jpg   So much hatred of Haitians-mapa-1844.jpg  

Last edited by Snapshoot; 03-06-2019 at 07:51 AM..
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Old 03-06-2019, 10:23 AM
 
24,241 posts, read 17,624,924 times
Reputation: 9165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post
you racist assumption that this is about race is all you need to see of your own argument.
having a large population of black people in DR do not means that Dominicans have to do anything to help Haiti at all.
or that they should allow their country to be taken over.
Haitians have historically tried to ethnic-cleanse the Dominicans despite the fact the they are also heavily black.
this is not about the few whites in DR, this about Haitians historically wanting to form a all black, afro-centric nation in the land of the Dominicans.
Dominicans have their own history and culture and dont want to be part of such a project.
the issue with Haitians is not that the are black, is that they are Haitians. (Dominicans do not want anything to do with that country and its mind set)


Those are not the facts on the ground, and you truly lack understanding of the situation.
there are about 2 million Haitians in RD. lost of them have power to vote.
how long until Haitians became a major political force in such a small country?
how long until they elect a president?
how long until that president erode the institutions of DR to the benefits of the Haitians?.
how long until full balkanization?
Eastern Europe is full of examples to choose from.
Haitians today represent an existential treat to the long term survival of the DR.

Historically DR HAS LOST 5000 SQUARE KILOMETERS because of Haitians settlers outnumbered the Dominicans and to avoid conflict the land has transferred to Haiti.
the border has been moving east.

DR has never invaded Haiti, Haiti invaded DR for 22 years and then attempted invasion 8 more times.

Haiti did try to ethnic-cleanse the Dominicans of their own land.

DR is tired of being in the losing end when it comes to Haiti. The international community should deal with it, not DR.


and this is the issue right there.
Are you Dominican first and foremost? And do you have an advanced degree in history or social science or related fields?

I suspect not..........
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Old 03-06-2019, 11:08 AM
 
142 posts, read 34,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Are you Dominican first and foremost? And do you have an advanced degree in history or social science or related fields?

I suspect not..........
I have both.

Dominican, graduated in the USA with BA in Economics and a Masters in political economy.

anything else?

My question to you:

Can you refute any of my points?

I suspect not.............

Last edited by Snapshoot; 03-06-2019 at 11:17 AM..
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Old 03-06-2019, 01:20 PM
 
24,241 posts, read 17,624,924 times
Reputation: 9165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post
I have both.

Dominican, graduated in the USA with BA in Economics and a Masters in political economy.

anything else?

My question to you:

Can you refute any of my points?

I suspect not.............
Nor was I trying to. I first wanted to see if you were Dominican.
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Old 03-28-2019, 04:48 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,937,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post
Haitians have historically tried to ethnic-cleanse the Dominicans despite the fact the they are also heavily black.
.


Read this over. Then read this over again. Then ask yourself whether this makes sense.

That area that Haiti took was heavily settled by escaped slaves from St. Domingue, before either Haiti or the DR was created. The Spanish and French colonies weren't totally separated from each other so there was no definitive border. This area was always a "no man's land" of limited commercial activity.

And in fact an alternate narrative of Haiti/DR affairs was that the Boyer regime overtaxed the population of the entire island because of the debts incurred to pay reparations to France for the loss of the "slaves". Dominicans objected because they didn't see what this had to do with them and so fought to rid themselves of Haitian rule.


Boyer was a mulatto and I am sure could have entered a room filled with Dominicans without anyone knowing that we was Haitian, so the notion that he killed off Dominicans for racial reasons is the Trujillo/Balaguer mythology to paint Haiti as a "savage African nation" and the DR is a "pure piece of Catholic Eurocentricity.


There is a Dominican movie making the rounds called Cocote and this shows that thus extreme dichotomy between a Haitian and a Dominican is false. There is a cultural continuum and people from each side of the border have had contact for CENTURIES.


https://www.google.com/search?source....0.deYIAsGzttw




I bet that most Dominicans have some ancestry from the Haiti side of the border, some stemming from when it was Ste Domingue.

I repeat. No mentally stable person in the DR is worried that Haitians are going to pour over the border to conquer them or to kill them or to change their culture.


What concerns them are the large numbers of Haitians who burden the hospitals and schools and depress the wages that less skilled Dominicans can earn. And also introduce levels of severe poverty and its psychological impacts that the DR has tried to escape from. Yes that is a valid concern because no country has the responsibility to solve the problems of another.


But Dominicans can ill afford to scream that people born in the DR, who have parents born in the DR, as well as grand parents, aren't Dominican because their great grand parents illegally entered the DR 80 years ago. Look how many Americans of Dominican heritage would be packed in planes and shipped right back to the DR if the USA ever adapted that attitude.


And yes much of the Trujillo/Balaguer narrative of Haitians is in fact racist, like the notion that Haitians want to kill them off when most of them have visible African ancestry and can easily pass for Haitian if they cross the border. Its about time Dominicans renounce that narrative or accept the fact that even many Latin Americans will consider you all self loathing if you don't.

Last edited by caribny; 03-28-2019 at 05:05 PM..
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