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Old 01-13-2019, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Earth
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its because they speak french and practice voodoo.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59NUNp8Qm7s
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Old 01-14-2019, 12:09 AM
 
Location: Canada
4,811 posts, read 4,433,356 times
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Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
its because they speak french and practice voodoo.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59NUNp8Qm7s
LOL Those are supposed to be Jamaicans.
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Old 01-16-2019, 09:58 PM
 
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I truly admire the Haitians, they got rid of their European oppressors from Haiti (I wish Indigenous Guatemalans did the same).


Maybe it's people with strong European/colonial heritage who hate them, since they inherited a hatred for darker races from their racist colonial forefathers.

Last edited by Yaxkan; 01-16-2019 at 10:34 PM..
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Old 01-17-2019, 10:00 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 12 days ago)
 
5,168 posts, read 8,019,848 times
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The 10 richest people in Haiti



Haiti seems to work just fine for these Haitians.

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Old 01-17-2019, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaxkan View Post
I truly admire the Haitians, they got rid of their European oppressors from Haiti (I wish Indigenous Guatemalans did the same).

Maybe it's people with strong European/colonial heritage who hate them, since they inherited a hatred for darker races from their racist colonial forefathers.


It's not like it did Haiti any good in the long run. It's slightly poorer than even Guatemala, and that's pretty damn poor. Guatemala is also looked down on by it's neighbors. It is in a similar boat as Haiti.

I understand why some Indigenous Guatemalans feel the way you do but indigenous people treat each other pretty bad too. I have seen it with my own eyes. Not to mention they love Mexican culture more than their own and are evangelical religious fanatics.
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Old 01-17-2019, 01:53 PM
 
Location: DC metropolitan area
632 posts, read 285,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaxkan View Post
I truly admire the Haitians, they got rid of their European oppressors from Haiti (I wish Indigenous Guatemalans did the same).


Maybe it's people with strong European/colonial heritage who hate them, since they inherited a hatred for darker races from their racist colonial forefathers.
Haitian slaves chose violence as a way to free themselves only to fall into another form of slavery imposed by a host of new oppressors: grinding poverty and the deep corruption of political leaders, among many others.

I do not know and have never known anyone who hates Haitians, black, brown or white.
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Old 01-17-2019, 03:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
It's not like it did Haiti any good in the long run. It's slightly poorer than even Guatemala, and that's pretty damn poor. Guatemala is also looked down on by it's neighbors. It is in a similar boat as Haiti.

I understand why some Indigenous Guatemalans feel the way you do but indigenous people treat each other pretty bad too. I have seen it with my own eyes. Not to mention they love Mexican culture more than their own and are evangelical religious fanatics.

I think if Indigenous Guatemalans of the past got rid of the corrupt Spanish/Criollos early on, Guatemala would've perhaps avoided all those evangelicals. Guatemala has been ran by corrupt Ladino criminals, and Guatemala is still in a terrible situation and it's getting even more corrupt. What's the worst that could've happened if the Indios got rid of the original Criollo/Spanish oppressors earlier on and then actually ran the place? Indigenous folks have always been very self-sufficient & hardworking imho and less greedy/wasteful, my people never needed those criminals running the place. They were actually draining the Indigenous population to point of extreme poverty.
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Old 01-17-2019, 05:44 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 12 days ago)
 
5,168 posts, read 8,019,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaxkan View Post
I think if Indigenous Guatemalans of the past got rid of the corrupt Spanish/Criollos early on, Guatemala would've perhaps avoided all those evangelicals. Guatemala has been ran by corrupt Ladino criminals, and Guatemala is still in a terrible situation and it's getting even more corrupt. What's the worst that could've happened if the Indios got rid of the original Criollo/Spanish oppressors earlier on and then actually ran the place? Indigenous folks have always been very self-sufficient & hardworking imho and less greedy/wasteful, my people never needed those criminals running the place. They were actually draining the Indigenous population to point of extreme poverty.
I doubt it would had been any better. If we look at how the most advanced indian societies were functioning in the 1500’s, when the Spaniards began to arrive and through alliances with rebellious indian groups conquered the hemisphere, we would not see much difference at the core. In fact, that there was enough indians that hated the other indians that conquered them before the arrival of the Spanish and their hatred was so strong that they allied with the Spanish to destroy the conquering indians, speaks volumes of the abuses that was taking place in many, if not all those, indian societies.

Whether it was the Aztec, the Mayan, or the Incas (or any other group, but these were the most advanced at that time); all of them were dynastic, imperial/monarchical for life, and oligarchical societies. The common indian people didn’t vote their leaders into power. The vast majority of the indian people lived in poverty and in complete ignorance while the indian ruling class lived in luxury, in their own palaces with large numbers of servants, the men with many wives and concubines, and an abundance of the best foods and the best of everything. Only the indian ruling class recieved any worthwhile formal education while the everyday indian was left with religious teachings and the necessary skills to do their job in society (some were taught to farm, others were taught to defend, others were taught to clean after others, etc). They had a ruling class that perfected the act of mass deception through their religion (for example, the Aztec and Mayan upper classes convinced the masses that it was necessary to sacrify thousands of young men every single year in order to prevent the world from ending. Not many everyday indians found it odd that the ‘lucky’ victims were never taken from the upper class families, despite that they all supposedly believed in their gods and religious practices). In practically all the indian societies their ruling class lived in impunity, were able to do whatever they wanted and not get punished while the everyday indian people would do the slightest wrong thing and in many instances they would be punished with death or years of hard labor. For example, upper class indian men were allowed to have multiple wives and had the right to have sex with any woman or girl from the lower indian classes, regardless if the woman or girl agreed to or not. Lower level indian men weren’t allowed to do those things, especially with the women of the indian ruling families. In nearly all the indian societies they already practiced slavery (the slaves were also indians) among themselves. There were some indian societies that also practiced cannibalism on a widespread scale. Sexual relationships between older indian men with girls as young as 13 or 14 was not looked down upon in many indian societies. Indian women basically had no rights of their own. Sexual relationships between older men and young pubecent boys was also accepted in many of these societies (it was also a common practice in much of Europe at the time of the Roman Empire, but not so much at the time the Spanish began to arrive in the Americas).

I can go on and on. My point is that the indians are people just like everyone else. A basic aspects of humanity is that we tend to all do the same things given the same or similar circumstances. Give any type of human too much power and it will not be long before they begin to abuse it.

Last edited by AntonioR; 01-17-2019 at 05:57 PM..
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Old 01-17-2019, 06:56 PM
 
60 posts, read 22,328 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
I doubt it would had been any better. If we look at how the most advanced indian societies were functioning in the 1500’s, when the Spaniards began to arrive and through alliances with rebellious indian groups conquered the hemisphere, we would not see much difference at the core. In fact, that there was enough indians that hated the other indians that conquered them before the arrival of the Spanish and their hatred was so strong that they allied with the Spanish to destroy the conquering indians, speaks volumes of the abuses that was taking place in many, if not all those, indian societies.

Whether it was the Aztec, the Mayan, or the Incas (or any other group, but these were the most advanced at that time); all of them were dynastic, imperial/monarchical for life, and oligarchical societies. The common indian people didn’t vote their leaders into power. The vast majority of the indian people lived in poverty and in complete ignorance while the indian ruling class lived in luxury, in their own palaces with large numbers of servants, the men with many wives and concubines, and an abundance of the best foods and the best of everything. Only the indian ruling class recieved any worthwhile formal education while the everyday indian was left with religious teachings and the necessary skills to do their job in society (some were taught to farm, others were taught to defend, others were taught to clean after others, etc). They had a ruling class that perfected the act of mass deception through their religion (for example, the Aztec and Mayan upper classes convinced the masses that it was necessary to sacrify thousands of young men every single year in order to prevent the world from ending. Not many everyday indians found it odd that the ‘lucky’ victims were never taken from the upper class families, despite that they all supposedly believed in their gods and religious practices). In practically all the indian societies their ruling class lived in impunity, were able to do whatever they wanted and not get punished while the everyday indian people would do the slightest wrong thing and in many instances they would be punished with death or years of hard labor. For example, upper class indian men were allowed to have multiple wives and had the right to have sex with any woman or girl from the lower indian classes, regardless if the woman or girl agreed to or not. Lower level indian men weren’t allowed to do those things, especially with the women of the indian ruling families. In nearly all the indian societies they already practiced slavery (the slaves were also indians) among themselves. There were some indian societies that also practiced cannibalism on a widespread scale. Sexual relationships between older indian men with girls as young as 13 or 14 was not looked down upon in many indian societies. Indian women basically had no rights of their own. Sexual relationships between older men and young pubecent boys was also accepted in many of these societies (it was also a common practice in much of Europe at the time of the Roman Empire, but not so much at the time the Spanish began to arrive in the Americas).

I can go on and on. My point is that the indians are people just like everyone else. A basic aspects of humanity is that we tend to all do the same things given the same or similar circumstances. Give any type of human too much power and it will not be long before they begin to abuse it.

I doubt it would've been any worse either, at least for Guatemala's case. It would have likely been better.

Btw, you are mainly describing the Aztecs of Central Mexico, especially the supposedly sacrificing thousands of people every year. And I'm pretty sure it was captured ruling class members & warrior class from enemy kingdoms who got sacrificed, the everyday Indian who worked on the cornfields weren't the "lucky" ones.

If most of the Indigenous people were impoverished, then the Indigenous population become even more so during the Spanish colonization. It was so bad that the Indigenous people would flee to the mountains and forest.



Anyways, this thread is about Haiti, I think we're getting a little too off topic...

Last edited by Yaxkan; 01-17-2019 at 07:05 PM..
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,811 posts, read 4,433,356 times
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Who knows what life would have been like for the Mayans had they fought off the Spanish. What I will say is that the Spanish were pretty cruel. Regardless of what the Mayans were doing lets not try to downplay or deny Spanish atrocities in the region. In modern Guatemalan History Mayans have gotten the short end of the stick. There is no question about it. During the armed conflict, certain Mayan groups were the targets of some rather brutal counter insurgency campaigns by the army. Many Mestizos also lost their lives fighting for what they thought was a just cause.

The sad thing about Guatemala is people keep voting for the same people expecting different results.

Anyways Yaxkan has a point. We are way off topic.
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