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Old 01-18-2019, 09:53 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 13 days ago)
 
5,173 posts, read 8,022,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaxkan
Btw, you are mainly describing the Aztecs of Central Mexico, especially the supposedly sacrificing thousands of people every year. And I'm pretty sure it was captured ruling class members & warrior class from enemy kingdoms who got sacrificed, the everyday Indian who worked on the cornfields weren't the "lucky" ones.
Its not a “supposedly,” it is a fact. The Mayans also practiced human sacrifices and before the Spaniards they were a much more warrior society than how they have been portrayed. For centuries the image that has been portrayed of the Mayan is that they were a peaceful society and didn’t practice sacrifices. The description of human sacrifices and constant warring in the Spanish chronicles was often presented as myths created by the Spaniards to degrade the image of the Mayans. Given the lack of evidence of the sacrifices and constant wars, most people, including historians and archeologists, accepted the belief that the Spaniards were lying about the Mayans.

During the last decade or so archeological evidences has been discovered where the Mayans themselves left chisseled in stone their own history and how their own culture functioned. Mass human sacrifices and constantly warring among each other is a prominent feature in those stone carvings from centuries ago and this has lead to a revision of what was previously believed not only about the Mayans, but also on the credibility of the Spanish conquistadors. In essence, the surfacing of these evidences are simply recognizing that what the Spanish conquistadors explained in their writings of what they witnessed in Mayan society is true. They were not lying in an attempt at discrediting the Mayans, they were simply stating the truth.

Case in point:










Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaxkan
If most of the Indigenous people were impoverished, then the Indigenous population become even more so during the Spanish colonization. It was so bad that the Indigenous people would flee to the mountains and forest.
I personally doubt that over the long haul the mass majority of the Mayans have been worse off than they were before the Spaniards arrived. For starters, I highly doubt back then they had life expectancies as long as they do now, which is one of the most important indicators of overall well being in any population. If conditions have become worse than before the arrival of the Spaniards, today the typical Mayan should be living less years than before and that is simply not the case. In fact, from what I have read in recent years, it appears the Mayan population is growing at a faster rate than the overall Guatemalan population.

This is not to deny that some wrongs were done to the Mayans, but it certainly wasn’t the hell I think you want to present it as.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaxkan
Anyways, this thread is about Haiti, I think we're getting a little too off topic...
Ditto
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Old 01-18-2019, 02:00 PM
 
60 posts, read 22,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post

I personally doubt that over the long haul the mass majority of the Mayans have been worse off than they were before the Spaniards arrived. For starters, I highly doubt back then they had life expectancies as long as they do now, which is one of the most important indicators of overall well being in any population. If conditions have become worse than before the arrival of the Spaniards, today the typical Mayan should be living less years than before and that is simply not the case. In fact, from what I have read in recent years, it appears the Mayan population is growing at a faster rate than the overall Guatemalan population.

I'm pretty sure life expectancy was much lower during the Spanish colonization of Guatemala for Indigenous people compared to before the Spanish invasion.


20th century medicine created by the USA (not by the Spanish/Criollo colonizers) helped the Mayan population recover our numbers back to the millions and helped the population cure the diseases brought over by the Spanish. During the Spanish empire in the 19th century, the Mayan population was in the thousands, a small fraction of the population compared to the centuries before (at the time of the initial invasion)... the population couldn't recover due to smallpox, measles, malaria, extreme poverty, Spanish atrocities and etc. Indigenous medicine was more reliable in those days fyi, even after much of the knowledge was lost due to the conquest.

Last edited by Yaxkan; 01-18-2019 at 03:18 PM..
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Old 01-19-2019, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Houston
1,614 posts, read 564,490 times
Reputation: 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by MemoryMaker View Post
You always hear about *various* other groups bashing Haitians (not just singling out one group).

Overall, my experience with Haitians has been good. I have found most of them to be pleasant and very industrious. Here in NY, many are very hardworking, keep 2+ jobs and start their own small businesses to give their family a middle class lifestyle. Many of the women even make good livings in the medical field as nurses and such. Southeast Queens (and certain nearby suburban areas on Long Island) are known as the New York metro area's black middle class mecca and I would wager that Haitians are the largest group there. These are places with sky-high homeownership rates, strong property values, median household incomes that mostly exceed $90k, low to moderate crime and some of the suburban ones even have nicely rated school systems. They have played a huge role fueling that image and giving those places that honor.

Many Haitians contribute a lot to American society (beyond cheap expendable manual labor) unlike a lot of those in certain other immigrant groups; especially the ones whom are most known to bash them the most.

Fyi - I am not Haitian.
Are they legal? TPS? If theyíre TPS, they were only supposed to be here ďtemporarilyĒ.
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Old 01-20-2019, 01:01 AM
 
295 posts, read 180,695 times
Reputation: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
The 10 richest people in Haiti



Haiti seems to work just fine for these Haitians.

Interesting the top 10 richest Haitians are not the people you would think look like the typical Haitians,except for 2 on the list.
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Old 01-20-2019, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Canada
4,811 posts, read 4,434,812 times
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Those Hatian chicks were kind of hot.
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Old 01-20-2019, 09:00 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 13 days ago)
 
5,173 posts, read 8,022,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrizeWinner View Post
Interesting the top 10 richest Haitians are not the people you would think look like the typical Haitians,except for 2 on the list.
Haiti is probably the country that has been anti-white for the longest time in history.

From its very foundation the country was blatantly racist towards the white. One of the main guys in the independence movement and a follower of Jean Jacques Dessalines was Boisrond-Tonnere. He once said:

Quote:
"For our declaration of independence, we should have the skin of a white man for parchment, his skull for an inkwell, his blood for ink, and a bayonet for a pen!"
The Haitian flag was actually derived from the French flag, but Jean Jacques Dessalines turn the French flag on its side and ripped out the white band as a symbol of white exclusion of Haiti, and tied the blue and the red together. At certain times in Haiti’s history the blue part of the flag was replaced with black and then reverted, usually when a leader that follows the noirisme (blackness) ideology takes power is when the blue is changed to black.

From the very first Haitian constitution all the way until the 1910’s it blatantly said that no white person can own property in Haiti and that no white can ever become a Haitian citizen. Haiti closed itself to all types of immigration, except black immigration.

A widespread massacre of the white population was committed in 1804, which thinned considerably the white minority of Haiti’s population due to the deaths and white people fleeing the island.

Haiti has had multiple massacres of mulattoes (white-black mixed people) too, especially of the whitest looking mulattoes, at various times of its history. The most recent one took place in Jeremie in the 1960’s when basically the entire mulattoes segment of Jeremie’s population was wiped out in a single night.

With such a long history of anti-white (and anti-white-looking-mixed-people) sentiment, in a way it is amazing that the whitest looking Haitians still rose to the top.

I have a gut feeling that the everyday Haitian isn’t aware of this and if they ever become aware, it might create widespread riots.
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Old 01-22-2019, 06:35 AM
 
295 posts, read 180,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Haiti is probably the country that has been anti-white for the longest time in history.

From its very foundation the country was blatantly racist towards the white. One of the main guys in the independence movement and a follower of Jean Jacques Dessalines was Boisrond-Tonnere. He once said:



The Haitian flag was actually derived from the French flag, but Jean Jacques Dessalines turn the French flag on its side and ripped out the white band as a symbol of white exclusion of Haiti, and tied the blue and the red together. At certain times in Haitiís history the blue part of the flag was replaced with black and then reverted, usually when a leader that follows the noirisme (blackness) ideology takes power is when the blue is changed to black.

From the very first Haitian constitution all the way until the 1910ís it blatantly said that no white person can own property in Haiti and that no white can ever become a Haitian citizen. Haiti closed itself to all types of immigration, except black immigration.

A widespread massacre of the white population was committed in 1804, which thinned considerably the white minority of Haitiís population due to the deaths and white people fleeing the island.

Haiti has had multiple massacres of mulattoes (white-black mixed people) too, especially of the whitest looking mulattoes, at various times of its history. The most recent one took place in Jeremie in the 1960ís when basically the entire mulattoes segment of Jeremieís population was wiped out in a single night.

With such a long history of anti-white (and anti-white-looking-mixed-people) sentiment, in a way it is amazing that the whitest looking Haitians still rose to the top.

I have a gut feeling that the everyday Haitian isnít aware of this and if they ever become aware, it might create widespread riots.
Haiti had antiwhiteness embedded in the political fabric but not so completely. Haiti allowed the Polish to live in its lands and even the mulatto class (Gens de couleur anciens libres ).

Simon Bolivar(of peninsulare origin) got sheltered in Haiti when was Vanquished from Gran Colombia.A statue of Alexandre Petion was erected in Caracus.
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Old 01-22-2019, 08:15 AM
 
909 posts, read 667,035 times
Reputation: 1205
So the slaves were being racist against the slavemasters when they overthrew them?...LOL, this guy is so transparent
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:04 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 13 days ago)
 
5,173 posts, read 8,022,345 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogoesthere View Post
So the slaves were being racist against the slavemasters when they overthrew them?...LOL, this guy is so transparent
Any actions that are based on race is racism.

The racist aspects that were seen in Haiti was not overthrowing the slavemasters, but what was done to them after the fact and that it continued by law until the first or second decade of the 20th century. That’s precisely what is being discussed here. It isn’t that complicated.

Anyway, seeing what the richest Haitians look like, it seems all those centuries old policies didn’t work. They are making their money off the work of the blacks, who are left with peanuts and a horrible living standard. Minus the whippings and being able to move around out of their own will, I don’t think the lifestyle of most Haitians is much different from what their enslaved ancestors lived. People in Haiti get sick and die from simple diseases that in most countries in the hemisphere are easily cured, only the rich Haitians have access to quality health care. Most robberies go unsolved, most theives are never caught or punished, most rapes remain without justice. For most Haitians, Haiti offers them a horrible existence.

Last edited by AntonioR; 01-22-2019 at 11:18 AM..
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:14 AM
 
909 posts, read 667,035 times
Reputation: 1205
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Any actions that are based on race is racism.

The racist aspects that were seen in Haiti was not overthrowing the slavemasters, but what was done to them after the fact and that it continued by law until the first or second decade of the 20th century. Thatís precisely what is being discussed here. It isnít that complicated.


And yet, the White Polish did not suffer this fate...they had the same skin color as the slave masters and were not treated the same...how does that happen?...LOL...keep trying to make it look solely like racism and completely divorce it from the slavery that was taking place weeks before...oddly enough,you go to great lengths to provide a back story when people dismiss Dominicans as simple racists when it comes to Haitians...guess that one is complicated though...like I said, completely transparent...the agenda is quite clear
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