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Old 01-22-2019, 11:21 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 13 days ago)
 
5,173 posts, read 8,022,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogoesthere View Post
And yet, the White Polish did not suffer this fate...they had the same skin color as the slave masters and were not treated the same...how does that happen?...LOL...keep trying to make it look solely like racism and completely divorce it from the slavery that was taking place weeks before...oddly enough,you go to great lengths to provide a back story when people dismiss Dominicans as simple racists when it comes to Haitians...guess that one is complicated though...like I said, completely transparent...the agenda is quite clear
Those Polish you talk about were soldiers in the army sent by Napoleon to reconquer the French territory from the Haitians, but once they arrived on the island they deserted the army and quit fighting. That’s the only reason Dessalines made an exception for them, as he did with the French that were doctors and were useful professionals. He also exempt the French women that were wives of several Haitian military generals. All those people didn’t make up even 1% of the population and most of those that were exempt still lost the rest of their family, because the exemptions were on a case by case basis, not encompassing entire families.

But exceptions don’t make the rule.
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:31 AM
 
Location: DC metropolitan area
632 posts, read 286,012 times
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It is true that only blacks could be citizens and whites could not even own land in post-1805 Haiti. [Girard, Philippe R. (2011). The Slaves Who Defeated Napoleon: Toussaint Louverture and the Haitian War of Independence 1801–1804. Tuscaloosa, Alabama: The University of Alabama Press.]

Syrian-origin Haitians dominate a lot of the economy. In recent history, black Haitians have sought to have them driven from the country because of their disproportionate economic influence.
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:52 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 13 days ago)
 
5,173 posts, read 8,022,345 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ner View Post
It is true that only blacks could be citizens and whites could not even own land in post-1805 Haiti. [Girard, Philippe R. (2011). The Slaves Who Defeated Napoleon: Toussaint Louverture and the Haitian War of Independence 1801–1804. Tuscaloosa, Alabama: The University of Alabama Press.]

Syrian-origin Haitians dominate a lot of the economy. In recent history, black Haitians have sought to have them driven from the country because of their disproportionate economic influence.
Exactly. I don’t know why that other guy (or gal) is making such a big deal out of this.

In fact, let me quote what a member of the Haitian Legislature said back in the mid-1840’s in a letter that he sent to Mr John Hogan, I believe he was a US Congressman.

This was published in The New York Herald on December 29, 1845. The excerpts below were taken from pages 2 and 3.

The introduction so people can see this was written by a high ranking Haitian politician.


Then the parts that pertain to the topic of this thread. I attempted to highlight the most on topic parts with an imperfect red border.








Also, anyone can search online the Haitian constitutions from 1805 up until the Americans invaded in 1915 and eliminated the anti-white segments and then put in place a new Haitian constitution.

This thread is about why Haiti has for so long received the less than nice treatment from most countries and this is one of those reason. There’s no need for anyone to make a big deal out of this.

Last edited by AntonioR; 01-22-2019 at 12:00 PM..
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Old 01-22-2019, 09:57 PM
 
3,774 posts, read 2,033,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogoesthere View Post
So the slaves were being racist against the slavemasters when they overthrew them?...LOL, this guy is so transparent

Seriously. Haiti was just following the instructions of the Bible given to them.
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Old 01-23-2019, 09:13 AM
 
295 posts, read 180,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Any actions that are based on race is racism.

The racist aspects that were seen in Haiti was not overthrowing the slavemasters, but what was done to them after the fact and that it continued by law until the first or second decade of the 20th century. That’s precisely what is being discussed here. It isn’t that complicated.

Anyway, seeing what the richest Haitians look like, it seems all those centuries old policies didn’t work. They are making their money off the work of the blacks, who are left with peanuts and a horrible living standard. Minus the whippings and being able to move around out of their own will, I don’t think the lifestyle of most Haitians is much different from what their enslaved ancestors lived. People in Haiti get sick and die from simple diseases that in most countries in the hemisphere are easily cured, only the rich Haitians have access to quality health care. Most robberies go unsolved, most theives are never caught or punished, most rapes remain without justice. For most Haitians, Haiti offers them a horrible existence.
Yea the centuries old policies didn’t work , because the Haitian elite adopted many of the mantras and habits of their former French oppressors.

The misconception was that they were blockaded from the rest of the world,not exactly. The Haitian politicians were very apt to corruption and since many of the elite where black and mulato,they squandered it which subsequently allowed others non-typical Haitian to rise in the social ladder.

Alexandre Petion (the guy who had a statue erected in Caracas for his aid of Simon Boliver),served in the French colonial army ,I bet it made an impression on him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Exactly. I don’t know why that other guy (or gal) is making such a big deal out of this.

In fact, let me quote what a member of the Haitian Legislature said back in the mid-1840’s in a letter that he sent to Mr John Hogan, I believe he was a US Congressman.

This was published in The New York Herald on December 29, 1845. The excerpts below were taken from pages 2 and 3.

The introduction so people can see this was written by a high ranking Haitian politician.


Then the parts that pertain to the topic of this thread. I attempted to highlight the most on topic parts with an imperfect red border.








Also, anyone can search online the Haitian constitutions from 1805 up until the Americans invaded in 1915 and eliminated the anti-white segments and then put in place a new Haitian constitution.

This thread is about why Haiti has for so long received the less than nice treatment from most countries and this is one of those reason. There’s no need for anyone to make a big deal out of this.
They couldn’t completely expel the Syirans-Lebanese since many of the brought some of merchant trade Haiti never had before they came mostly in the early 20th century.

I’ve met a lot of mulatto and Syrian Haitians there is not so much resentment ,they hold the same patriotic feeling as many Haitians.
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Old 01-23-2019, 05:16 PM
 
Location: DC metropolitan area
632 posts, read 286,012 times
Reputation: 730
There are a lot of Haitians living in Quebec Province, Canada. I don't think they are the scourge up there that *liberal*-minded people everywhere seem to want to make them be. I moved there after finishing my undergraduate studies at the Universidad de Puerto Rico, Recinto de Río Piedras. Haitians in Quebec appeared much better off in terms of standard of living and integration into wider society than in the San Juan area, where they were marginal.

I first lived in Montreal, but later moved to Sainte-Foy, which is a borough of Quebec City to study at Université Laval. I actually have an M.A. in French. I have never *used* it professionally, but I could say a thing or two about humor in Rabelais' Gargantua and Pantagruel, how René Descartes laid the groundwork for the modern analytical method in scientific inquiry, bringing up junior according to Rousseau, libidinousness and the use of je in the writings of André Gide, Jean-Paul Sartre, Simone de Beauvoir, otherness in Albert Camus, Gabrielle Roy, Anne Hébert, Michel Tremblay, and the phonetic differences between Canadian French and the French of France. Youpi!!! Université Laval had its share of Haitians and French-speaking Africans. They were enrolled in undergraduate and graduate programs across the board.

Quebeckers are very different from Anglo-Canadians and Americans in terms of how they think about race/ethnicity and multiculturalism. Whereas Anglo-Americans (English-speaking Canadians and Americans) give a lot of talk space about the virtues of racial and ethnic minorities keeping their cultures, French-speaking Quebeckers tend to expect everyone who moves to Quebec to speak French and integrate into Francophone Quebec society. Quebeckers can be very politically incorrect, too, like not thinking for a second that doing blackface is socially unacceptable or offensive. In Quebec, *diversity* committees or commissions are often headed by white men and no one thinks a thing about it. In Anglo-Canada and the U.S., they are always headed by women or, less frequently, men of *color*.

Despite these horrors, a lot of Haitian-origin people have *made it* in Quebec:

1. Michaëlle Jean was Canada's Governor General (a British Commonwealth thing) and then headed up the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie.

2. Ulrick Chérubin was mayor of all-white Amos, Quebec for 12 years until he passed on.

3. Jean Alfred represented Hull (now Gatineau) in the Quebec National Assembly for the independence-goaled Parti Québécois.

4. Dominique Anglade represented the Montreal electoral district of Saint-Henri-Sainte-Anne in the Quebec National Assembly.

5. Vivian Barbot represented the Papineau riding under the Bloc Québécois, also independence-goaled, but at the federal level--i.e., in Ottawa.

...and if we get into sports and entertainment (comedians and television and radio personalities), the arts, literature, and music, we start to have a VERY long list. Not bad for a people who are "hated everywhere."

Maybe business start-ups / entrepreneurship are the next frontier for oppressed people everywhere.
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Old 01-23-2019, 06:52 PM
 
295 posts, read 180,695 times
Reputation: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ner View Post
There are a lot of Haitians living in Quebec Province, Canada. I don't think they are the scourge up there that *liberal*-minded people everywhere seem to want to make them be. I moved there after finishing my undergraduate studies at the Universidad de Puerto Rico, Recinto de Río Piedras. Haitians in Quebec appeared much better off in terms of standard of living and integration into wider society than in the San Juan area, where they were marginal.

I first lived in Montreal, but later moved to Sainte-Foy, which is a borough of Quebec City to study at Université Laval. I actually have an M.A. in French. I have never *used* it professionally, but I could say a thing or two about humor in Rabelais' Gargantua and Pantagruel, how René Descartes laid the groundwork for the modern analytical method in scientific inquiry, bringing up junior according to Rousseau, libidinousness and the use of je in the writings of André Gide, Jean-Paul Sartre, Simone de Beauvoir, otherness in Albert Camus, Gabrielle Roy, Anne Hébert, Michel Tremblay, and the phonetic differences between Canadian French and the French of France. Youpi!!! Université Laval had its share of Haitians and French-speaking Africans. They were enrolled in undergraduate and graduate programs across the board.

Quebeckers are very different from Anglo-Canadians and Americans in terms of how they think about race/ethnicity and multiculturalism. Whereas Anglo-Americans (English-speaking Canadians and Americans) give a lot of talk space about the virtues of racial and ethnic minorities keeping their cultures, French-speaking Quebeckers tend to expect everyone who moves to Quebec to speak French and integrate into Francophone Quebec society. Quebeckers can be very politically incorrect, too, like not thinking for a second that doing blackface is socially unacceptable or offensive. In Quebec, *diversity* committees or commissions are often headed by white men and no one thinks a thing about it. In Anglo-Canada and the U.S., they are always headed by women or, less frequently, men of *color*.

Despite these horrors, a lot of Haitian-origin people have *made it* in Quebec:

1. Michaëlle Jean was Canada's Governor General (a British Commonwealth thing) and then headed up the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie.

2. Ulrick Chérubin was mayor of all-white Amos, Quebec for 12 years until he passed on.

3. Jean Alfred represented Hull (now Gatineau) in the Quebec National Assembly for the independence-goaled Parti Québécois.

4. Dominique Anglade represented the Montreal electoral district of Saint-Henri-Sainte-Anne in the Quebec National Assembly.

5. Vivian Barbot represented the Papineau riding under the Bloc Québécois, also independence-goaled, but at the federal level--i.e., in Ottawa.

...and if we get into sports and entertainment (comedians and television and radio personalities), the arts, literature, and music, we start to have a VERY long list. Not bad for a people who are "hated everywhere."

Maybe business start-ups / entrepreneurship are the next frontier for oppressed people everywhere.
The upholding and policing of Political correctness only exists in the West,doesn’t really exist so much outside of it.
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Old 01-24-2019, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,332,488 times
Reputation: 8602
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrizeWinner View Post
The upholding and policing of Political correctness only exists in the West,doesn’t really exist so much outside of it.
You're largely right, though Quebec is most definitely part of the "West".


I'd say that there are concentric circles of political correctness. The innermost one encompasses the core Anglosphere countries and a few others from northern Europe that are of the Protestant tradition.


I'd argue there is another one level up from theirs where you'd find a lot of countries of the Latin Catholic tradition - much of central-southern Europe would be there, as would Quebec.
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Old 01-24-2019, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,332,488 times
Reputation: 8602
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ner View Post

3. Jean Alfred represented Hull (now Gatineau) in the Quebec National Assembly for the independence-goaled Parti Québécois.

.

All of my kids were born in the hospital that Jean Alfred lobbied to get built when he was the representative for this area. At the time of his election (1976), he may have been the only black person living in the constituency of about 75,000 people he was elected to represent.
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Old 01-24-2019, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,332,488 times
Reputation: 8602
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ner View Post
There are a lot of Haitians living in Quebec Province, Canada. I don't think they are the scourge up there that *liberal*-minded people everywhere seem to want to make them be. I moved there after finishing my undergraduate studies at the Universidad de Puerto Rico, Recinto de Río Piedras. Haitians in Quebec appeared much better off in terms of standard of living and integration into wider society than in the San Juan area, where they were marginal.

I first lived in Montreal, but later moved to Sainte-Foy, which is a borough of Quebec City to study at Université Laval. I actually have an M.A. in French. I have never *used* it professionally, but I could say a thing or two about humor in Rabelais' Gargantua and Pantagruel, how René Descartes laid the groundwork for the modern analytical method in scientific inquiry, bringing up junior according to Rousseau, libidinousness and the use of je in the writings of André Gide, Jean-Paul Sartre, Simone de Beauvoir, otherness in Albert Camus, Gabrielle Roy, Anne Hébert, Michel Tremblay, and the phonetic differences between Canadian French and the French of France. Youpi!!! Université Laval had its share of Haitians and French-speaking Africans. They were enrolled in undergraduate and graduate programs across the board.

Quebeckers are very different from Anglo-Canadians and Americans in terms of how they think about race/ethnicity and multiculturalism. Whereas Anglo-Americans (English-speaking Canadians and Americans) give a lot of talk space about the virtues of racial and ethnic minorities keeping their cultures, French-speaking Quebeckers tend to expect everyone who moves to Quebec to speak French and integrate into Francophone Quebec society. Quebeckers can be very politically incorrect, too, like not thinking for a second that doing blackface is socially unacceptable or offensive. In Quebec, *diversity* committees or commissions are often headed by white men and no one thinks a thing about it. In Anglo-Canada and the U.S., they are always headed by women or, less frequently, men of *color*.

Despite these horrors, a lot of Haitian-origin people have *made it* in Quebec:

1. Michaëlle Jean was Canada's Governor General (a British Commonwealth thing) and then headed up the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie.

2. Ulrick Chérubin was mayor of all-white Amos, Quebec for 12 years until he passed on.

3. Jean Alfred represented Hull (now Gatineau) in the Quebec National Assembly for the independence-goaled Parti Québécois.

4. Dominique Anglade represented the Montreal electoral district of Saint-Henri-Sainte-Anne in the Quebec National Assembly.

5. Vivian Barbot represented the Papineau riding under the Bloc Québécois, also independence-goaled, but at the federal level--i.e., in Ottawa.

...and if we get into sports and entertainment (comedians and television and radio personalities), the arts, literature, and music, we start to have a VERY long list. Not bad for a people who are "hated everywhere."

Maybe business start-ups / entrepreneurship are the next frontier for oppressed people everywhere.
This is a pretty good summary.


I'd add that while there was and still is some racism in Quebec towards black people (including Haitians), the classic stereotype associating black people with crime (and especially the dangerous young black male who poses a threat) is largely absent here. The most persistent negative stereotype about Haitians/black people here is that they're lazy.


I find this is a stark contrast between Quebec and the U.S., and even places in Anglo-Canada not that far away from Montreal like Toronto and even Ottawa.
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