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Most people complain that in recent years there are a lot of Haitians and they are really a lot, but most people also know that there will always be Haitians in the country for the simple fact that its a neighbor. That’s the real gripe of the people, too many in such a relatively short time moving on their own. Most were simply not in most cities or the countryside as is the case right now. Most people are also speaking from personal experience, which makes the issue more cemented in the population.
The real criticism goes to the Dominican politicians for allowing this, but reality is that there isn’t much that the Dominican government can do about this either. In the best of cases, if Haiti was in the condition it finds itself and the DR would be very strict in practice with who enters the place, the DR would still have a lot of Haitians. Maybe less than now, but enough to cause concern in the people. Believe it or not, the Haitian situation is a major reason many people that don’t have a reason to emigrate do so.
I also don’t think most Haitians in the DR are going back to Haiti to live. At least, that is not the vibe they give. If I would be in their shoes, I would do the same thing. It doesn’t matter if its the upper, middle, or lower class; if its urban, suburban, or rural; well educated or not; conservative or liberal; Dominicans in general have an opinion about this that they don’t approve of. Every poll that has been done in the population show this with basically no change through the years. People treat the Haitians quite nicely by what I have seen in day-to-day interactions, but those same people have an opinion about this that is usually expressed in closed doors and only to people they trust or other Dominicans. If most Dominicans think a person is siding with Haiti, they literally shut down because they don’t want to talk about this anymore with such person. Its a shutdown that incorporates everything, especially body language.
Altice was still using the Orange brand of 2016 in Santo Domingo.
thats a bank that basically does not exist, only one office to serve corporate clients.
the same way CITi bank has offices there, those are not regular banks but investment offices.
very small and unknown. (even Citi seems to be growing lately)
^^^Many people have assumed there to be oil in Haiti's water and some assume the deposit is larger than Venezuela's. I didn't mention oil because I want to see clear evidence of that instead of fantasying.
Like I said heard this many times but don't know how true exactly.
Anyway's I'll use this comment to apologize to the CERTAIN Dominicans on here for my comments. That Banilejo posters and some others were saying disgusting crap that went unnoticed when I was lurking. And then silly ass threads such as this one. http://www.city-data.com/forum/ameri...dea-haiti.html
Thats very honorable, Im all for peace between 2 countries. But a peace where the Haitians fix their country, instead of acting like incompetent babies and the world acting like we their babysitters.
Imagine this, 2 neighbors they both respect each others property and privacy, dont spread lies or start sh*t, they peaceful friendly neighbors and sometimes coorporate.
..... And then you have 2 other neighbors, they have a negative tension. and the poorer one (haitian immigrants) always sneak and steals the other one's property or things meant for his family (DR ). He doesnt respect his rights and somehow thinks both houses belong to him.
I rather the first one, but right now we doing the second.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR
Most people complain that in recent years there are a lot of Haitians and they are really a lot, but most people also know that there will always be Haitians in the country for the simple fact that its a neighbor. That’s the real gripe of the people, too many in such a relatively short time moving on their own. Most were simply not in most cities or the countryside as is the case right now. Most people are also speaking from personal experience, which makes the issue more cemented in the population.
The real criticism goes to the Dominican politicians for allowing this, but reality is that there isn’t much that the Dominican government can do about this either. In the best of cases, if Haiti was in the condition it finds itself and the DR would be very strict in practice with who enters the place, the DR would still have a lot of Haitians. Maybe less than now, but enough to cause concern in the people. Believe it or not, the Haitian situation is a major reason many people that don’t have a reason to emigrate do so.
I also don’t think most Haitians in the DR are going back to Haiti to live. At least, that is not the vibe they give. If I would be in their shoes, I would do the same thing. It doesn’t matter if its the upper, middle, or lower class; if its urban, suburban, or rural; well educated or not; conservative or liberal; Dominicans in general have an opinion about this that they don’t approve of. Every poll that has been done in the population show this with basically no change through the years. People treat the Haitians quite nicely by what I have seen in day-to-day interactions, but those same people have an opinion about this that is usually expressed in closed doors and only to people they trust or other Dominicans. If most Dominicans think a person is siding with Haiti, they literally shut down because they don’t want to talk about this anymore with such person. Its a shutdown that incorporates everything, especially body language.
Every country should have some type of immigration. But it should be very slow and steady especially for a small semi-poor country like DR. Not massive flows and flows of immigrants, majority illegal and from Haiti. This is why we need a border wall, military on the border, and other improvements on border control, so that the fact we share border with them wouldnt have a negative effect on us.
Like i said, immigration should be small steady and divisefied, from many other parts of the region and world. Right now, its 95% from Haiti and some Venezuela. We are accepting some good hardworking educated people and many bad criminals. We should only accept the good not the bad. We already have our own Dominican criminals why should we accept foriegn criminals. Just cuz the USA openly accepts some of the trash from Latin America and the Caribbean, doesnt mean we should adopt their immigration model.
Read my post again. Like I said GDP PPP is not a real measure of quality of life in a country. lol Ghana and Angola who are far behind DR on human development index have a larger purchasing power than DR. That's like hyping up the trillion dollar purchasing power of African-Americans. Okay? GDP PPP doesn't say much for a country because if the income of a country is uneven then the metric is skewed. This is like China where the majority are poor but the rich(in raw numbers are a lot compared) are able to spend a lot(since China is tryna turn into a consumer economy) and so a country like China would appear rich in terms of GDP PPP. But you know what country China is above when it comes to GDP PPP...???? USA.... Yet I bet most would argue USA has a better quality of life and less of an income gap compared to China. So yea GDP PPP is not impressive "dude." Show us GDP per capita or DR closing its income gap between rich and poor. Because I have friends who been to DR(Santo Domigo, Puerto Plata, Santiago, Punta Cana, etc) and they said the gap between rich and poor was blatant and alot of foreigners like Germans owned businesses.
there are no statistics of haity beacuse no one collects that, thats the state of haiti, no even basic statistics are collected- sad
Even if there are hardly any statistics collected(according to you) I have many family members who been to Haiti(I'm going next year) and the consistent thing said that its only the Port Au Prince area that has a high amount of crime whereas the rural areas and other towns like Cap-Haitian, Jacmel and others don't even have that much crime if at all. We are only see much crime due to the protests. Even so there would have to be a HUUUUGE gap in statistics not be collected by the UN.
No one is making stuff because you don't know how to READ.... What you are posting is GDP per capita(like I asked) the other person was posting GDP PPP. Yes, you're correct obviously has a higher GDP per capita than both Ghana and Angola. Whereas in GDP PPP they DON'T....
I was telling that poster that bragging about PPP is useless. As for a reduction from 42% from 90s to 30% in 2018 thats good in all but 30% is still significant.
Most people complain that in recent years there are a lot of Haitians and they are really a lot, but most people also know that there will always be Haitians in the country for the simple fact that its a neighbor. That’s the real gripe of the people, too many in such a relatively short time moving on their own. Most were simply not in most cities or the countryside as is the case right now. Most people are also speaking from personal experience, which makes the issue more cemented in the population.
The best options for Haitians and Dominicans is a developed Haiti. At least to the standards of Ghana. I know many people claim that I am "blaming whitey" for Haiti's troubles. No way in shape or form am I taking the responsibilities off the Haitian leaders, I been criticizing them in this thread. However, what I am saying is that there are external forces trying to sabotage Haiti. I posted links. But for Haiti to fully get on the path of development those Haitian leaders have got to be brought to justice. If Haitians didn't blame their leaders then they wouldn't be protesting. Point is.... Dominicans should say to their government to not allow those Haitian elites refugee in the Dominican Republic.
Yes, there are too many Haitians in DR in a short time and it puts a strain on the country. However, the two countries are locked together on a island so migration should be expected. But I say go after the large Dominican companies who are helping these illegal Haitians migrant for cheap labor. Also many Haitians in DR assimilate. I know many who speak Spanish with a Spanish accent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR
The real criticism goes to the Dominican politicians for allowing this, but reality is that there isn’t much that the Dominican government can do about this either.
The best case is going after those Dominican companies who import those illegal Haitians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR
In the best of cases, if Haiti was in the condition it finds itself and the DR would be very strict in practice with who enters the place, the DR would still have a lot of Haitians. Maybe less than now, but enough to cause concern in the people. Believe it or not, the Haitian situation is a major reason many people that don’t have a reason to emigrate do so.
Elaborate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR
I also don’t think most Haitians in the DR are going back to Haiti to live. At least, that is not the vibe they give.
The rural poor Haitians? Most likely. The middle-upper class Haitians? Disagree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR
If I would be in their shoes, I would do the same thing. It doesn’t matter if its the upper, middle, or lower class; if its urban, suburban, or rural; well educated or not; conservative or liberal; Dominicans in general have an opinion about this that they don’t approve of. Every poll that has been done in the population show this with basically no change through the years. People treat the Haitians quite nicely by what I have seen in day-to-day interactions, but those same people have an opinion about this that is usually expressed in closed doors and only to people they trust or other Dominicans. If most Dominicans think a person is siding with Haiti, they literally shut down because they don’t want to talk about this anymore with such person. Its a shutdown that incorporates everything, especially body language.
I been to Santiago and Puerto Plata(only short trip was visiting someone). I didn't really see any discrimination out in the open. I seen Dominicans and Haitians chilling with each other however, I asked Haitians there thoughts one half said they faced discrimination and one half said they didn't and were cool. So I'd say its complex.
However, I don't know why Dominicans believe there is hate towards you guys from Haitians. When I was in Haiti the few Dominicans in Petionville were treated better than the locals.
But all in all Dominicans should go after the large companies importing these illegal Haitians.
Thats very honorable, Im all for peace between 2 countries. But a peace where the Haitians fix their country, instead of acting like incompetent babies and the world acting like we their babysitters.
Who are the incompetent babies? The Haitian people or its government? Because if you're referring to the government then I agree. The Haitian people have no say it how the country is ran. Why you think the protests are happening? No... Haitians don't want anymore incompetents. And yes we want the world to stop babysitting us. Which is why most of us want the UN gone. So....
Quote:
Originally Posted by coconada
Imagine this, 2 neighbors they both respect each others property and privacy, dont spread lies or start sh*t, they peaceful friendly neighbors and sometimes coorporate.
Its not Haitians spreading lies especially not online.
Yes, I too want peace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coconada
..... And then you have 2 other neighbors, they have a negative tension. and the poorer one (haitian immigrants) always sneak and steals the other one's property or things meant for his family (DR ). He doesnt respect his rights and somehow thinks both houses belong to him.
I rather the first one, but right now we doing the second.
The only crime those Haitian migrants commit is entering DR illegally. Most Haitians in DR try to remain lowkey due to there already being a form of xenophobia put in place
The best options for Haitians and Dominicans is a developed Haiti. At least to the standards of Ghana. I know many people claim that I am "blaming whitey" for Haiti's troubles. No way in shape or form am I taking the responsibilities off the Haitian leaders, I been criticizing them in this thread. However, what I am saying is that there are external forces trying to sabotage Haiti. I posted links. But for Haiti to fully get on the path of development those Haitian leaders have got to be brought to justice. If Haitians didn't blame their leaders then they wouldn't be protesting. Point is.... Dominicans should say to their government to not allow those Haitian elites refugee in the Dominican Republic.
Yes, there are too many Haitians in DR in a short time and it puts a strain on the country. However, the two countries are locked together on a island so migration should be expected. But I say go after the large Dominican companies who are helping these illegal Haitians migrant for cheap labor. Also many Haitians in DR assimilate. I know many who speak Spanish with a Spanish accent.
The best case is going after those Dominican companies who import those illegal Haitians.
Elaborate.
The rural poor Haitians? Most likely. The middle-upper class Haitians? Disagree.
I been to Santiago and Puerto Plata(only short trip was visiting someone). I didn't really see any discrimination out in the open. I seen Dominicans and Haitians chilling with each other however, I asked Haitians there thoughts one half said they faced discrimination and one half said they didn't and were cool. So I'd say its complex.
However, I don't know why Dominicans believe there is hate towards you guys from Haitians. When I was in Haiti the few Dominicans in Petionville were treated better than the locals.
But all in all Dominicans should go after the large companies importing these illegal Haitians.
I think the impression of hate come from different areas, one is historical ( we all know that one)
the second one has been instigated by small groups of Haitians burning the flag, attacking the Dominican embassy with rocks, Attacking the Dominican president with rocks, and the idea that Haiti is running a slander campaign against DR with the intention to bully the country into giving them papers.
All those thing are beings repeated ad-nauseam by the Dominican press.
Also a bunch of NGOs have been very involved into "helping" Haitians in DR. but the impression Dominican have is that those NGO are the ones that exaggerate the Supposed discrimination again Haitians in DR in order to get more funding from donations. I personally know people from an small NGO from Europe that schools abut 12 Haitian orphans in cabarete DR. I asked them why they chose that location, the truth came out, it was not about the children at all, it was a twisted form tourism, on witch rich European would come to "help" children but at the same time, surf, and live a beachy life for a couple of months. Basically using those children to satisfy some twisted "feel good" "white savior" need. How do you think this NGO got money? by painting DR as a monster that do not educate this children because of their race. (something not true as DR does not even ask for birth certificates below 8th grade). when i pointed that the could go to the public school just down the block, they argue d that the education they provided was better and bla bla bla.
You know very well how those NGOs operate. they took billions from the world after the quake, and Haiti have not seen a cent from that.
For the most part Haitians and Dominicans live peacefully side by side as always, but if you read the international press you would get the impression they are killing each other on that island. i would not gonna say things are perfect but they are way better than the way they are painted on the media. there is or was (at least until recently) some level of instigation coming from different parts of the world, and it was not from Haiti.
Last edited by upthere22; 08-01-2019 at 12:10 PM..
The best options for Haitians and Dominicans is a developed Haiti.
As Dominicans like to say: "eso se cae de la mata" (it falls on its own from a tree).
'Mata' is actually a Taino words that means tree and is used interchangeably with 'árbol' and 'palo'. Although, that saying always uses mata. Its also used in Puerto Rico, Cuba, and Venezuela. Elsewhere in the Spanish speaking world not so much or at all.
Quote:
Elaborate.
Simply asking around answers this question, but generally the people that leave due to this see that the DR's future is compromised and its only a matter of time.
Quote:
But all in all Dominicans should go after the large companies importing these illegal Haitians.
The vast majority of jobs in the DR have little to do with big companies. It also goes without saying that if the Haitian migrant community was dependent in the few big firms that hires mostly them, the Haitian minority in the DR would be considerably smaller in terms of companies bringing them and hiring them. More big companies hire a mostly Dominican workforce, but like I said most people don't work for these companies. In big Dominican firms like Grupo Ramos (owners of La Sirena, Súper Pola, etc and the biggest tax collector in the country plus the biggest company that contributes to the country's social security) or Banco Popular (now that I think of it, any of the banks, insurance, and stock brokerage firms) anyone is very hard pressed to find a Haitian working in their stores/branches. In places like La Sirena even the guards or he cleaners are Dominicans. Now that I think of it, Haitians are almost absent in Dominican television and radio shows too.
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