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Old 11-29-2018, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Clifton, Cincinnati
124 posts, read 62,242 times
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Southern Brazil is a lot like Argentina in regards to immigration, and I don't think southern Brazilians would see too much of a need to move across the border. Argentina is certainly going through some economic difficulties, but it still is much better off than the majority of Brazil (the vast majority). The only thing that I will give Brazil is that over the last two decades they have done a better job at advancing their infrastructure whereas Argentina has let theirs go. Just look at the southern beach city of Florianopolis which is extremely popular with Argentine tourists. Mar Del Plata is nice, but Florianopolis seems much more polished and new.

But still, walking through most Argentinian cities they certainly seem safer, even safer than Southern Brazil cities like Porto Alegre, and statistics prove this. Chile (3.46), Ecuador (5.85) and Argentina (5.94) have the lowest homicide rates in South America while Brazil is the second highest at (29.53). That in and of itself says a lot. Also, you notice more social resources for the population in Argentine cities. Just look at the HDI of the two countries. On a state/provincial basis, Argentina's lowest province would be Brazil's third highest just under Sao Paulo state.

I will not deny Argentina of its problems, but there are certainly institutional differences between the two countries, and these institutions still make Argentina a popular country for immigrants across South America. Other countries have upped their game in regards to improvement in the way infrastructure works, and this is one area Argentina really needs to work on. But I have been in some truly first world neighborhoods in places like Buenos Aires, Cordoba, Mar Del Plata and Rosario.
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Old 12-02-2018, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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1. Brazil has the strongest economy in Latin America. Argentina's economy is in the tubes.
2. Brazil has a closed-off culture, meaning that over several decades people's attitudes have been intentionally shaped (via Government, pop culture) to consider themselves as not needing other countries, being able to survive on their own, living in their own world, limiting the amount of trade and imports they need from the outside world, etc.
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Old 12-02-2018, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Buenos Aires and La Plata, ARG
2,265 posts, read 1,757,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenseofPlace View Post
Southern Brazil is a lot like Argentina in regards to immigration, and I don't think southern Brazilians would see too much of a need to move across the border. Argentina is certainly going through some economic difficulties, but it still is much better off than the majority of Brazil (the vast majority). The only thing that I will give Brazil is that over the last two decades they have done a better job at advancing their infrastructure whereas Argentina has let theirs go. Just look at the southern beach city of Florianopolis which is extremely popular with Argentine tourists. Mar Del Plata is nice, but Florianopolis seems much more polished and new.

But still, walking through most Argentinian cities they certainly seem safer, even safer than Southern Brazil cities like Porto Alegre, and statistics prove this. Chile (3.46), Ecuador (5.85) and Argentina (5.94) have the lowest homicide rates in South America while Brazil is the second highest at (29.53). That in and of itself says a lot. Also, you notice more social resources for the population in Argentine cities. Just look at the HDI of the two countries. On a state/provincial basis, Argentina's lowest province would be Brazil's third highest just under Sao Paulo state.

I will not deny Argentina of its problems, but there are certainly institutional differences between the two countries, and these institutions still make Argentina a popular country for immigrants across South America. Other countries have upped their game in regards to improvement in the way infrastructure works, and this is one area Argentina really needs to work on. But I have been in some truly first world neighborhoods in places like Buenos Aires, Cordoba, Mar Del Plata and Rosario.
The thing with immigration in Argentina actually is the wide welfare system of the country and free universal healthcare and university. Those social benefits are unparalleled in Latin America.
That's why there are a lot of brazilians students in Argentina. For example, the faculty of Medicine in La Plata university currently has hundreds of brazilians ONLY in this year's promotion.
One of seven students of Medicine in Argentina are foreigns, and half of those are brazilian, by far the largest group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
1. Brazil has the strongest economy in Latin America. Argentina's economy is in the tubes.
2. Brazil has a closed-off culture, meaning that over several decades people's attitudes have been intentionally shaped (via Government, pop culture) to consider themselves as not needing other countries, being able to survive on their own, living in their own world, limiting the amount of trade and imports they need from the outside world, etc.
Brazil is just emerging right now from the largest economic crisis of its history ¿Why do you think they elected Bolsonaro? because they needed a radical change of the path.
Argentina's economic turmoils are nothing new. Sadly it had been the common thing in the recent decades. So, i see it the other way round: the economy is wich hampers the country to take off.
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
5,828 posts, read 9,478,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenseofPlace View Post
Argentina is certainly going through some economic difficulties,
An understatement. Last I heard, their currency is virtually worthless.

Quote:
But still, walking through most Argentinian cities they certainly seem safer,
This appears to be changing for the worse. I recently talking with a guy who's married to an Argentine. He says armed muggings on the street, sometimes resulting in injury or death, have been on the rise in Buenos Aires and other cities. A direct result of the deteriorating economic situation, of course. Whether it's as bad as Brazil, probably not. Quite a lot of problems with violent crime in many locations in Brazil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marlaver View Post
Brazil is just emerging right now from the largest economic crisis of its history
Thanks for the correction. I shouldn't have said "strongest economy", I should have said "largest GDP".
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Old 12-03-2018, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
713 posts, read 678,887 times
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The limited immigration from Brazil to Argentina has little to do with the ongoing economic situation of both countries, as it wouldn't explain why it's been scarce in the last four decades, Besides, the HDI and GDP per capita in Argentina has always been a bit higher...

I enumerate these points as causes:

1) Brazil is huge and diverse. Different states have enormous differences in wealth and development, so it's logical to think that internal migration mostly covers the economic-driven migration.
2) The difference between the overall standards of living in Argentina and Brazil isn't very big, even if some figures still indicate Argentina has a slight edge. So, emigration to Argentina wouldn't be that worthy, especially considering point 1.
3) Language barrier, cultural differences and distance. They aren't big, but enough to give point 1 more handicap.
4) Southern Brazil, the part that lies with Argentina, hence the easiest to move from, is the wealthiest of the country, so no necessity of migrating to Argentina.
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Old 12-03-2018, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Clifton, Cincinnati
124 posts, read 62,242 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
An understatement. Last I heard, their currency is virtually worthless.

This appears to be changing for the worse. I recently talking with a guy who's married to an Argentine. He says armed muggings on the street, sometimes resulting in injury or death, have been on the rise in Buenos Aires and other cities. A direct result of the deteriorating economic situation, of course. Whether it's as bad as Brazil, probably not. Quite a lot of problems with violent crime in many locations in Brazil.

Thanks for the correction. I shouldn't have said "strongest economy", I should have said "largest GDP".
Yes, it's a great time to be a tourist in Argentina right now because of the currency situation.

There has certainly been an uptick in crime, and in large part due to the economic conditions no doubt. The situations though are not near as bad as Brazilian cities. There are still large sections of Argentinian cities you can walk around at night and not worry about a thing, and even in a lot of sections of Buenos Aires as long as you are aware of your surroundings and have street smarts you should be fine. The organized crime in Brazil just takes it to another level, which means in large parts of their major cities you just don't go out at certain times of the night.
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:14 PM
 
410 posts, read 183,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVANGELISTTI View Post

São Paulo state (45 millions people) is bigger and richer than Argentina or Chile economically, industrialized, always offered more job opportunities and higher wages. Big Brazilian cities still atract hundreds of thousands high skilled Portuguese.

Brazil has many social problem but Always was economically dynamic. We are in a big economic crisis since 2015 but we don't see millions of Brazilians trying left the country any way

Do mean in 1918 or 2018? If the latter, you're exaggerating your numbers by quite a wide margin, there's barely over 100k Portuguese living in Brazil at the moment the majority of whom are old folks who emigrated there many decades ago. In 2015, 1294 Portuguese individuals were granted working visas for Brazil.

Last edited by iron_stick; 12-03-2018 at 06:30 PM..
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Old 12-04-2018, 04:33 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
5,828 posts, read 9,478,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhc1985 View Post
...
Good points, makes a lot of sense.
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:50 AM
 
142 posts, read 33,969 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
1. Brazil has the strongest economy in Latin America. Argentina's economy is in the tubes.
2. Brazil has a closed-off culture, meaning that over several decades people's attitudes have been intentionally shaped (via Government, pop culture) to consider themselves as not needing other countries, being able to survive on their own, living in their own world, limiting the amount of trade and imports they need from the outside world, etc.
All this is completely not true:


Brazilian economy is in the deepest recession in the last 60 years right now.
Brazil made clear that it want to become a global power, having both the Olympics and the world cup.
and also getting involved in military actions abroad like the pacification force in Haiti.
Brazil wants more geopolitical power, and its trying to get it.
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Old 12-08-2018, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
5,828 posts, read 9,478,151 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post
Brazilian economy is in the deepest recession in the last 60 years right now.
You can read up. I already corrected myself to say that Brazil has the largest GDP rather than "strongest economy."

Quote:
Brazil wants more geopolitical power, and its trying to get it.
They're very much a closed society, trying for decades to be autonomous (limit how much they rely on the outside world.)
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