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Old 02-22-2019, 11:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
False! Mexico received a roughly equivalent number of African slaves that the United States did.
By the 1800s, Mexico did not have the Black population of the US.

Maybe in the 1500s, the US and Mexico had the same population of African slaves.

But Mexico never, ever had the same number of Africans. All that 5 percent African DNA proves it.....

The economy of the US South was based on cotton, and for that they needed slaves. The other economies based on African slaves were sugarcane plantations in BRAZIL and the Caribbean.

More recently the banana plantations in Central America were based on Black labor, and all of these countries have identifiably Black people (Panama, Costa Rica, etc).
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Old 02-22-2019, 11:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supfromthesite View Post
If you look at any dna test of Latin Americans, regardless of country, most do have at least a tiny bit of African dna. I live in South Texas and commonly see people that likely have no idea they are part black. If you look at them from the side it is quite obvious. Now, most mexicans down here probably don't look part black, but I bet most of them are if you gave them a dna test. I myself could be .1% or something since I have ancestors from Mexico.
One percent Black means nothing really. I mean who cares?

Blacks were never a significant portion of the Mexican population. They were there of course, but Mexico was never a major center for populations of African descent. It just wasn't.

To even lie and say it was is just plain ridiculous.
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Old 02-22-2019, 11:21 AM
 
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The current Mexico, awash in drugs and approaching a failed state, hardly started out as a racial utopia. The Spanish murdered their way across Mexico and conquered them. It was European colonialism, and yes a few African slaves were brought over.

However, notice that in Mexican media the actors tend to be WHITE. Not Native looking, but WHITE. The wealthier Mexicans tend to be WHITE as well.

Natives tend to be a lot poorer, particularly those who still speak their languages.

Across Latin America, the money with the money and in the corporate and governmental sections were WHITE, Blacks and Natives were excluded.

Post the 1990s, Brazil, Colombia, Peru, and Ecuador instituted AFFIRMATIVE ACTION at universities and in government positions for Blacks and Natives, because they had previously been excluded.
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Old 02-28-2019, 09:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
if you look mixed you're mixed very few people want to be Black even if they're dark. .
And doesnt this prove the point of systematic erasure because "few people want to be black"? How is this better than US definitions of "blackness"? Clearly there is a subliminal stigmatization of blacks if "few people want to be black". For Brazil clearly loads of people want to be white, when in fact they are mixed.
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Old 02-28-2019, 09:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
The vast majority of African slaves were imported into the British and French colonies. One time I had a discussion about this with someone in real life and I couldn’t understand why that person g else.
There is actually data on this.

1. The vast majority of slaves imported into the Americas went to Brazil, as much as 40%. Almost one million slaves were brought to Cuba within a mere 60 years in the 19th C.

2. Many of the slaves imported into the British islands were sold on to the Spanish colonies and Spain wasn't supplying enough enslaved peoples to meet the demand. Colombia and the DR as examples have some of the largest populations of people with some African ancestry, way more than Jamaica.

3. Enslaved peoples in Cuba and Brazil were treated exactly as they were in the British and French systems. The difference wasn't the colonizer. The difference was the activities that the slaves were used, with those on large sugar and cotton plantations and mines treated worse than in cattle and subsistence agriculture. The DR and PR under the Spanish were largely subsistence colonies, used mainly for strategic purposes, but otherwise neglected. Cuba in the 19th century became a powerful sugar based society replacing Haiti and the British West Indies when slavery ended in those places.

4. The present condition of Afro descendants in Latin America is so deplorable that the OAS has developed programs to deal with this issue. A big problem was that many countries trivialized the size of these populations, but now with the intervention of the OAS this issue is now being worked on. Afro descendant populations are being included in the census and socio economic data collected. And this data shows a very dire situation.
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Old 02-28-2019, 09:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
No one treated their slaves "well" they were slaves and but the French and English treated their slaves worse..
Please discuss Cuba and Brazil and you will see that there was NO difference in how slaves were treated compared to that of Haiti and Jamaica. In all slaves were a piece of farm equipment with a depreciation of 7 years. This reflected on financial statements of these plantations. Do you know that slaves were insured like other farm property? In ALL of the societies that I mentioned.

DR and PR were poor and in Colombia and Mexico a mestizo labor force grew precisely because of the slave rebellions. Planters found mestizos easier to control and so reduced their use of African enslaved peoples.


In fact in the 1500s Mexico had the LARGEST population of enslaved Africans in the Americas. As mestizo peasants replaced African slaves the % of afro descendants in the population declined to the point where many Mexicans express surprise that there is a black/afro mestizo Mexican population.
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Old 02-28-2019, 09:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
Again, today there simply are no black people left in most of those countries, so it's not common knowledge.

Those people have literally never seen black people in their countries, so why would you expect a typical person to know that? They also tend to be very uneducated so it's not likely that they would know about little known history from colonial times.
Actually they found 1.4 million black/Afro Mestizo Mexicans. They are defined by their African ancestry and report that they are often treated like foreigners by Mexicans who refuse to admit that it did have a history of African slavery.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0c8beacf50f6b


The reality is that there is a stigma against "blackness" in Latin America so ample incentive to find non black spouses. Those who claim that racism isnt a major factor in Latin America are being ridiculous. It is and in certain respects WORSE than the USA in 2019. And I report people who visited Brazil as recently as last year, and who enjoyed their stay.
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Old 02-28-2019, 09:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
False! Mexico received a roughly equivalent number of African slaves that the United States did.
It did in the 1500s. Then as the mestizo population grew they replaced African enslaved people, as they were less likely to rebel, given their different status. Blackness in Latin America is much maligned so that many intermarried and eventually the numbers of visible Afro disappeared except in certain isolated communities.

Please dont deny the process of "whitening" that was pursued by many Latin countries in the 19th and early 20th centuries. This certainly applied in Argentina.
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,202 posts, read 1,577,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
And doesnt this prove the point of systematic erasure because "few people want to be black"? How is this better than US definitions of "blackness"? Clearly there is a subliminal stigmatization of blacks if "few people want to be black". For Brazil clearly loads of people want to be white, when in fact they are mixed.


I can agree with this to a degree. Especially in places like Flori, Sao Paulo, Forteleza, and even some in Rio.


Last ten years or so here in Rio people have been really embracing their blackness more for a plethora of reasons. That subliminal stigmatization is real. I mean most Brasileiros know that they are "mistura" but to your point a lot try to "passe blanc" if you will. Crazy thing was when they Federale passed the version of Brazilian affirmative action as it pertained to college acceptance since the numbers of black Brazilians being admitted into college was disparate, all sorts of Brazilians put on their applications that they were indeed "black" ......
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Old 03-01-2019, 03:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLIMMACKEY View Post
[/b]

I can agree with this to a degree. Especially in places like Flori, Sao Paulo, Forteleza, and even some in Rio.


Last ten years or so here in Rio people have been really embracing their blackness more for a plethora of reasons. That subliminal stigmatization is real. I mean most Brasileiros know that they are "mistura" but to your point a lot try to "passe blanc" if you will. Crazy thing was when they Federale passed the version of Brazilian affirmative action as it pertained to college acceptance since the numbers of black Brazilians being admitted into college was disparate, all sorts of Brazilians put on their applications that they were indeed "black" ......


I visited Brazil 30 years ago going to Rio and Salvador. These two cities have very different dynamics btw with Salvador proudly embracing its "Africanness".


I have spoken to people who have visited more recently, one even a few months ago. What has happened is that blacks (mainly Americans) have become more visible, both in the media and as visitors. This has been viewed by many "black" Brazilians who began to query what they were told about the "poor" black American.


Small highly vocal black empowerment groups emerged setting out to destroy the myth that racism didn't exist in Brazil. They joined with other Afro Latin groups to ensure that discussions of racism became more open. Lula and prior presidents attempted to address the issue of economic exclusion by "blacks" and a rising "black" middle class began to emerge, though I don't know the extent to which it exists with Brazil's recent economic difficulties.


But the adverse conditions that "black" Brazilians endure remain and most blacks still remain marginalized in ways even more severe than blacks in the USA.




I say "black" Brazilians because defining who is black in Brazil is harder than it is in the USA which is why affirmative action, problematic in the USA (does it mainly benefit the black upper middle class?) is even more so in Brazil. A white looking person can claim to be "black" by bringing a picture of his mulata grandmother. He benefits from affirmative action even though he doesn't suffer from the rampant implicit bias that a more obviously Afro descendant looking person will.


I also say "black" because no one really knows how many Afro descendants exist in Brazil as only those who look almost 100% black will admit to it, that is aside from those in the black empowerment movement, or in places like Salvador. So the tendency is to embrace everyone who doesn't identify as being "white" as being Afro descendant, even though most are more accurately described as mestizo. What I do know is Brazil isn't 50% afro descendant. Maybe 20%. if we go by those who show visible Afro ancestry.
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