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Old 02-02-2019, 05:21 PM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
17,611 posts, read 19,028,420 times
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If the African slaves were treated so "well" by the Spanish and the Portugese then why were there so many slave rebellions in Latin America?


Gaspar Yanga—often simply Yanga or Nyanga (May 14, 1545 - ) was an African known for being the leader of a maroon colony of slaves in the highlands near Veracruz, Mexico (then New Spain) during the early period of Spanish colonial rule. He is known for successfully resisting a Spanish attack on the colony in 1609. The maroons continued their raids on Spanish settlements. Finally in 1618, Yanga achieved an agreement with the colonial government for self-rule of the maroon settlement. It was later called San Lorenzo de los Negros, and also San Lorenzo de Cerralvo.
In the late 19th century, Yanga was named as a "national hero of Mexico" and “El Primer Libertador de las Americas".[SIZE=2][citation needed[/SIZE][SIZE=2]][/SIZE] In 1932 the settlement he formed, located in today's Veracruz province, was renamed as Yanga in his honor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
The vast majority of African slaves were imported into the British and French colonies. One time I had a discussion about this with someone in real life and I couldn’t understand why that person had such a hard time understanding this fact. We were speaking specifically of the Caribbean islands, but I got her way of thinking when she said the Spanish Caribbean has most of the land in the Caribbean. While true, it didn’t occurred to her that the vast majority of slaves were imported to the English and French territories, but most died in the fields.

The total number of Africans imported into Puerto Rico and modern Dominican Republic didn’t passed 50,000 and that’s for both islands combined. Cuba imported the largest number (can’t remember if it was 500,000 or 800,000) and the bulk was imported after many French colonists from Haiti settled in eastern Cuba.

Places like Haiti, Jamaica, and the Lesser Antilles imported tens of millions of Africans.

As a general rule, the Spaniards treated their slaves better than the French or the English, in part due to religious beliefs and in part due to less intensive agricultural economies. The main activity in all three Spanish territories was cattle ranching, which never required much slaves nor did the owners needed to beat the living daylights of the slaves to encourage them to work.

The English and the French had highly productive islands because they saw their colonies as if they were giant businesses. That high productivity went hand in hand with a dominating plantation economy and very efficient control of the slaves (aka, do whatever it took to keep them working at full speed and at full intensity).

While on the French part (aka Haiti) of the island of Santo Domingo (also known as Hispaniola) imported well over 1 million Africans during the course of less than a century, the average life expectancy of an African was 6 or 7 years from the moment they arrived at the French port. Slaves almost made up over 80% of the population and African-born blacks (aka bozales in Spanish) were always more numerous than island-born blacks (aka black criollos or creoles).

Meanwhile in the Spanish part of the island (modern Dom Rep) the slaves were always a minority ranging from 10% to 15% of the total population, and the majority lived to old age. Most were island-born and by the 1700’s the had been on the island for generations and had an almost completely Spanish culture, plus had Spanish as their mother tongue. Despite being slave, most weren’t used to a strict control from their owners and were never subjected to truly harsh labors.

Many colonists from the French and English colonies in the Caribbean that visited the Spanish islands, particular the Spanish territory of Hispaniola, wrote that the Spaniards were very humaine with their slaves, that most slave owning Spaniards got to know very well their slaves because they only owned one or two plus their families instead of whole towns. The slaves were fed and clothes the same foods and clothes as their owners did for their own families. In many cases the slaves ate the meals on the same table as their masters and with the masters’ family. The slaves were given an excess of rest days via holidays that by law they were not allowed to work. Spanish law required every court to have a defendant of the slaves that needed to offer his services free of charge, since priests were used to inspect the slaves all over the territory and if there was any evidence of abuse they were obligated to alert the authorities. A slave had the right to file a complaint of ill treatment and the Spanish laws was on their side.

There are many other particulars that made slavery in the Spanish territories different from those in the French and English territories. In part, this is a major reason why descendants of African slaves in Spanish America suffer less resentments towards the whites than in the French and English parts of this hemisphere.

One aspect I will also mention is that it is a little easier for descendants of Spanish slaves to track their ancestry, if they choose, because there is an actual paper trail that English and French slaves don’t have. For example, Spanish law obligated that all slaves be baptised by their masters and there was severe punishments on the masters if they didn’t do it. The end result is that in the Spanish American countries the slaves baptism books exist in our days, making it easier to understand the genealogy of most descedants of slaves. No such records exist in French America and in English American countries.

I could go into more details with documented historical evidences, but right now I have to do something else.
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Old 02-02-2019, 05:23 PM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
17,611 posts, read 19,028,420 times
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Your maps prove MY point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Please show maps that includes actual numbers.

I’ll come back when I have time with the evidences.

In the meant time, I’ll post this map from Atlas of World History. The figures are in thousands.



This other chart/map has a graph in the lower right. Notice the number of Africans imported to Spanish America (including the Spanish Caribbean) pales to the numbers imported in the English and French Americas. Don’t forget to add the amounts of British North America to the English/French West Indies to get the full numbers for English/French America. I don’t know why they always separate British North America from the total British American numbers. They never do that with Spanish America, despite that most of Spanish America didn’t receive massive numbers of Africans. Its the weirdest thing.


https://pitt.libguides.com/c.php?g=12639&p=66892
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Old 02-02-2019, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
Ask 20 random Latinos if there was African slavery in Mexico, El Salvador, Argentine, Peru or Chile.

I am sure you went out and conducted an academic survey. LOL.
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Old 02-03-2019, 07:32 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 11 days ago)
 
5,166 posts, read 8,017,583 times
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It took me a while to find these excerpts which I had posted in another but much older thread right here on City-Data.

These are descriptions made by non-Spaniards (in fact, they were French and English, rivals of the Spaniards) upon visiting and/or living in a Spanish territory for long periods of time.

Moreau de Saint-Mery (French colonist from Saint-Domingue, modern Haiti, describing what he witnessed in the Spanish part of Hispaniola). These were published in his work A Description of the Spanish Part of Santo Domingo in the 1790’s. The entire purpose of his book was to convince the French government that it should take over the Spanish part.

It could take a while to get used to the spelling styles from that time (especially the ‘S’ that sometimes appears as a lower case ‘F’ - for example, classes often appears as claffes), but once you get used to it reading the passages becomes a piece of cake.


















I will also quickly post some excerpts from William Walton (a British colonist from Jamaica that spend a considerable time in the Spanish territories) A Present State of the Spanish Colonies, published in 1810.

William Walton also recognizes that in the English colonies often spread anti-Spanish propaganda presenting them as horrible slave owners, but upon witnessing the reality in the Spanish territories he came to the conclusion that the image they had in the English colonies of the Spaniards was simply not true. At a certain point William Walton also says that it was widely understood that the slaves of the Spaniards were the least likely to revolt and were the most peaceful of all the slaves in the Caribbean.




















I also have other sources, but I have to go to mass and that takes away my time to devot to this at this moment.

Like I said before, these excerpts were written by people that were not Spanish, but rather members of rivaling English and French societies that often had an antagonism towards the Spaniards. They saw with their own eyes how the slaves were treated at various points of the Spanish territories. Their national pride gave them reasons to badmouth the Spanish, yet upon personal inspecting the Spanish territories they couldn’t but notice how much more different the Spaniards treated their slaves compared to what they were used to seeing in their colonies.

We also have to keep in mind that some of the people proposing a difference view of what things were in the Spanish territories are descendants of slaves from the English colonies, and general the horrible treatment the slaves were given in those colonies created a resentment that simply doesn’t exist in the descendants of slaves of the Spanish ones.

If needed, I’ll post more sources later today once I’m back home from church.
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Old 02-03-2019, 01:35 PM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
17,611 posts, read 19,028,420 times
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If the African slaves were treated so well then there wouldn't have been SLAVE REBELLIONS



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5sry6DJJNk



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm-8uTAiWmU



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVegqRKtqv4
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Old 02-03-2019, 01:48 PM
AFP
 
6,898 posts, read 4,229,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
If the African slaves were treated so well then there wouldn't have been SLAVE REBELLIONS



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5sry6DJJNk



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm-8uTAiWmU



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVegqRKtqv4
No one treated their slaves "well" they were slaves and but the French and English treated their slaves worse. I was looking through genealogical records the other day and found obit and baptism records of slaves recorded in the same church records as noble families something the French or English wouldn't never do. Lots of Latin American free white men married former slaves as well there was a shortage of white women. You don't understand Latin America very well and these dumb videos don't clarify anything. You look really silly trying to school people on here.
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Old 02-03-2019, 02:33 PM
Status: "Nobody's right if everybody's wrong" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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Among the Latinos I know with some African ancestry they seem to be fully acculturated into their nations and thus mainly see them selves as Cuban or Mexican etc rather than by race. Complete opposite of the USA, where there was a legal racial caste system until the 1960s and still a lot of segregation right now. It put Blacks at an economic disadvantage but also retained their African cultural heritage separate from simply an American identity.
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Old 02-03-2019, 03:01 PM
AFP
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
Among the Latinos I know with some African ancestry they seem to be fully acculturated into their nations and thus mainly see them selves as Cuban or Mexican etc rather than by race. Complete opposite of the USA, where there was a legal racial caste system until the 1960s and still a lot of segregation right now. It put Blacks at an economic disadvantage but also retained their African cultural heritage separate from simply an American identity.


There are places in Latin America that have retained quite a bit of their "African Cultural heritage" such as music, food, religion and even some vocabulary. Black American culture in general isn't much different than southern rural USA "white" culture.
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Old 02-04-2019, 08:52 AM
 
142 posts, read 33,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
[/b]

There are places in Latin America that have retained quite a bit of their "African Cultural heritage" such as music, food, religion and even some vocabulary. Black American culture in general isn't much different than southern rural USA "white" culture.
jejeje funny how african Americans Love to go around questioning all other African diaspora "blackness" but of all the descendants of African is the new world African Americans are the least African. they do not practice African religion to the extend it is practiced in Latam, nor their music is as African as Latin american African music, Soul food is not African food. ect.
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:30 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 11 days ago)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post
jejeje funny how african Americans Love to go around questioning all other African diaspora "blackness" but of all the descendants of African is the new world African Americans are the least African. they do not practice African religion to the extend it is practiced in Latam, nor their music is as African as Latin american African music, Soul food is not African food. ect.
The reason for that is the very bad treatment they got from their own country. Not only were they subjected to English-style slavery, which was nothing like what was practiced in Spanish America, but after slavery they were subjected to the worst type of humiliations (the vote of a black man was worth only one-third the vote of a white man, segregation that claimed equal but separate yet everything that was put aside for blacks was of lesser quality than their counterparts for the whites, anti-racial-mixing laws, the one-drop-rule which was used to control the mixed race population and keep them from further mixing with the whites, church and school bombings for no real justifiable reasons except racial hatred, the list is long). After slavery, African Americans simply wanted to be Americans and feel proud of that, to make the best of their country along with their white countrymen; but, they were systematically denied that until relatively recently. They were second class citizens in their own country.

With a history like that, the resentments and distrusts that exists among American blacks towards their white countrymen is understandable. Its also the reason why they tried to recreate ‘African’ culture and traditions. As you say, those ‘African’ cultural aspects that were reinvented have little to do with actual African culture and in reality are just African American cultural aspects.

The racial history of the US is one of the most sad and horrible out there, so the pain that has been passed down through the generations among many black Americans is understandable.

They do appear somewhat ridiculous when some black Americans (because in reality most black Americans don’t care and most of the rest understand that black people weren’t treated the same all over the hemisphere, not even during the slavery) want to impose their generations created pain and resentments on other African-descended people of this hemisphere. You can’t expect other nationalities of blacks and mixed people to have the same resentments you have when they don’t have the same exact history that African Americans were subjected to. You need a past full of KKK, racial segregation and Jim Crow laws, racially based terrorism, etc that simply never exist in Latin America. If you don’t have that as part of your historical baggage, others can’t expect you to live or act as if you do. That’s not how life works.

The US is still a very racially based country, despite the advances it has acheived in this regard. Race forms the fundamental aspect in many Americans identity and many don’t realize this until they travel abroad and see that most of the rest of humanity, including most of the African-descended people of the Americas, don’t live their life like that. The racial issue in the US is still at such levels that many black men decide to travel in groups rather than solo, they also tend to feel more at ease when they are in a group and there is at least one other black person than if everyone was white and they were the only black there, they also feel more at ease in areas or neighborhoods with some diversity; in some ways, black Americans still fear whites and this is the main reason most feel uncomfortable when they are in an area or in a group when they are the only black. This isn’t the case for everybody, but in general terms I think this still applies.

Again, you can’t really blame them for acting like that. If Latin American blacks and mixed people were treated the way African Americans were treated in their own country during and after slavery, Latinos would had reacted the same way. That they don’t see things in the same way many African Americans see them is due to a different history.

Last edited by AntonioR; 02-04-2019 at 06:44 PM..
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