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I insist that a lot of people educated in the English speaking world are not aware that their view of Spain is biased, based on a British war tactic to discredit Spain and its people. For them is impossible that the Spanish treated the slaves better, despise the evidence. Specially int he case of the French. Even if the Spanish treated the slaves better, slavery lasted way longer than in the English colonies. Half a century longer.....
Lets have something clear, slavery was not an strongly held institution in the Spanish side of Hispaniola, those accounts are form 1723 and slavery was already a dead thing in that part of the island.
Or white Latinos just don’t want to come to terms with extreme brutality of Spanish colonialism.
Of course I’m the descendant of Africans slaves and Spanish Jewish slaveowners.
Show me a Black Latin American then or now who claims that slavery was so much better in the Iberian colonies. In fact show me multiple ones.
Because according to confederates in the South slavery in the South wasn’t bad and slaves were remembers of the family.
This is how white apologists around the Americas talk when they don’t want to deal with slavery.
Of course, the history of my family shows exactly how brutal the Spanish were. The Jewish Side was expelled from Spain. Their other options were to be one Catholic or die. The Inquisition recorded very well what it did to Muslims and Jews.
So before some if you white Latin Americans want to talk about Americans, white Latin American apologists for crimes against humanity are much worse than Trump.
they became that AFTER THE BRITISH. by the time the Ivies where founded the latam universities were 200 years old.
Most on the american cities where builted when the Spanish era in america was ending.
Have you questioned from where all that anti-Spain bias come from?. the Black legend is a real phenomenon, Do not let yourself be a victim.
"The Black Legend, or the Spanish Black Legend, is a black legend which affected Spain, the Spanish Empire, and Latin America. According to the black-legend hypothesis, anti-Spanish propaganda before or during the 16th century was "absorbed and converted into broadly held stereotypes" which assumed that Spain was "uniquely evil." The assimilation of primarily English and German propaganda into mainstream history created an anti-Hispanic bias in subsequent historians and a distorted view of the history of Spain, Latin America, and other parts of the world."
And please demonstrate to me a country that turned out like the US or Canada? You cannot because they don’t exist.
It’s just true. Britain was better at development than Spain was during the colonial era.
To even go out and claim that one group of white People tressted their slaves more humanely than others is extremely racist and dehumanizing as it reduces Black People to horses or other property. You don’t “treat” slaves “better”. You don’t owe people at all, because transporting across the ocean and making them work for you is a horrible act act in and of itself. Some masters might beat their slaves more than others. That does not make the slaveowner who does less beatings any nicer because a slaveowner is still a slaveowner.
And that fact that certain white people have the gall to speak to anyone Black on this subject Abe lecture them as ridiculous.
Some of you are far worse than people like Trump. Not be wo ld ssy something so stupid and racially insensitive.
None of this relates to the one drop rule or Afro-centrism but okay the part about your Jewish slave owning ancestor is interesting.
1. What was the surname and which US state?
2. Can't find your post about my knowledge being superficial you wrote on some other post which I'm not going to spend time digging up. You didn't specify what you're talking about. Some of your posts about Slavery in the Iberian peninsula and Latin America as well as Sephardic Jews aren't factual but I don't care enough about what you post to correct you.
3. Nope I'm not black and never claimed to be but you're not a Spaniard or a Jew either and post on those topics
You’re the one that’s not Spanish or Jewish. The relevant people in both communities have approved me, and I have what I need there, and I am legally both (under Spanish law).
I am indeed a Spaniyard. Citizenship, plus I live here.
BA in Latin American history, and at the masters level I did a lot of historical research too(MA in English history).
I know much more about Spanjsh history than the average Iberian.
Re: the fact that up until 1910 that “mulattoes” were classified separately from
Blacks on census forms, plus the fact you’ve historically had many mixed race people be the first Black perdón to be whatever shows you are simply wrong and do not know about anything about US history.
By the way, to be approved to even apply for Sephardic citizenship Jewish historians vet you genealogy and issue the certificate of Sephardic origin. Essentially you have to become a member of certain Sephardic synagogues.
So as Spain restored the citizenship of dead Sephardic Jews, their descendants inherit the ancestors citizenship. Ditto in Portugal. No different from when my family inherited a portion of my 4th great granddaddy’s estate. It was mine by right, by simple matter of inheritance law.
1.This is about the 5th or 6th BA and MA's you've mentioned you have a lot of degrees in different fields good for you for going after all those degrees.
2. That was a census classification but mulatto wasn't a word used in everyday vocabulary in the USA just as today Egyptians and Arabs would be correct to select the white classification but we all know the blank stares they would get by insisting they were white.
3. I'm assuming metacognition isn't your strength based on this silly comment.
4. Yes I know I know several people who have gone through the process or are currently going through the process. But that doesn't make you a Sephardic Jew even if you have met their criteria.
6. What is the surname that was the bases for you approval of Spanish citizenship? What state did this 4th great "granddaddy" live in?
7. Regarding your claim of having more knowledge of Spanish history than the average Iberian it is possible you have more facts you can recall but they have actually lived it and are the product of it.
1.This is about the 5th or 6th BA and MA's you've mentioned you have a lot of degrees in different fields good for you for going after all those degrees.
2. That was a census classification but mulatto wasn't a word used in everyday vocabulary in the USA just as today Egyptians and Arabs would be correct to select the white classification but we all know the blank stares they would get by insisting they were white.
3. I'm assuming metacognition isn't your strength based on this silly comment.
4. Yes I know I know several people who have gone through the process or are currently going through the process. But that doesn't make you a Sephardic Jew even if you have met their criteria.
6. What is the surname that was the bases for you approval of Spanish citizenship? What state did this 4th great "granddaddy" live in?
7. Regarding your claim of having more knowledge of Spanish history than the average Iberian it is possible you have more facts you can recall but they have actually lived it and are the product of it.
I don't put out family names on the internet, or divulge personal information.
I've actually mentioned the same BAs and MAs. History from Cornell University and English from Columbia University. My specialty in history was Latin American studies.
Proof that mulatto wasn't used in every day vocabulary in the US? You're desperately grabbing at straws. Mulatto was certainly used in books and other things written by people in the South at THAT time.
You have insufficient information, and are just talking in order to save face. But there's nothing wrong with admitting you know NOTHING about something.
It's ridiculous to tell ME about my culture or where I'm from when you've no academic background in American studies or US history or African American issues, and when you've never even lived in the US or know nothing about the US South where they come from.
It's also not up to you to determine who a Sephardic Jew is. Only rabbis have that power. Suffice to say, with the support of the relevant rabbi I can immigrate to ISRAEL itself. You have no decision making here.
It's funny some white people think that by virtue of being white, they automatically have knowledge and authority over others.
You know so little about the racial dynamics of the US it is laughable and you have the gall to try to tell me about it. Talk about foolish.
You don't really know the details of Spanish Sephardic citizenship, have no position of power of influence in the Sephardic Jewish community or in the Spanish government and yet you put YOUR TWO CENTS in? Give over yourself, as noted the relevant people approved me.
The fact that you and certain others on this thread have the idiocy to tell Black people certain slaveowners were "nicer" than some others. As someone who is the descendent of African slaves and Sephardic (Spanish Jewish slaveowners) that's the most RIDICULOUS thing I have heard in my life. No one wants to be a slave, PERIOD. No one wants to be forced to work for free or OWNED by other people, PERIOD. It does not matter that this owner maybe nicer or that maybe meaner, the institutional of slavery itself is a crime against HUMANITY no matter WHO does it. There's no such thing as a NOBLE slaveowner.
Stick to talking about Portugal. It's what you know BEST.
I don't put out family names on the internet, or divulge personal information.
I've actually mentioned the same BAs and MAs. History from Cornell University and English from Columbia University. My specialty in history was Latin American studies.
Proof that mulatto wasn't used in every day vocabulary in the US? You're desperately grabbing at straws. Mulatto was certainly used in books and other things written by people in the South at THAT time.
You have insufficient information, and are just talking in order to save face. But there's nothing wrong with admitting you know NOTHING about something.
It's ridiculous to tell ME about my culture or where I'm from when you've no academic background in American studies or US history or African American issues, and when you've never even lived in the US or know nothing about the US South where they come from.
It's also not up to you to determine who a Sephardic Jew is. Only rabbis have that power. Suffice to say, with the support of the relevant rabbi I can immigrate to ISRAEL itself. You have no decision making here.
It's funny some white people think that by virtue of being white, they automatically have knowledge and authority over others.
You know so little about the racial dynamics of the US it is laughable and you have the gall to try to tell me about it. Talk about foolish.
You don't really know the details of Spanish Sephardic citizenship, have no position of power of influence in the Sephardic Jewish community or in the Spanish government and yet you put YOUR TWO CENTS in? Give over yourself, as noted the relevant people approved me.
The fact that you and certain others on this thread have the idiocy to tell Black people certain slaveowners were "nicer" than some others. As someone who is the descendent of African slaves and Sephardic (Spanish Jewish slaveowners) that's the most RIDICULOUS thing I have heard in my life. No one wants to be a slave, PERIOD. No one wants to be forced to work for free or OWNED by other people, PERIOD. It does not matter that this owner maybe nicer or that maybe meaner, the institutional of slavery itself is a crime against HUMANITY no matter WHO does it. There's no such thing as a NOBLE slaveowner.
Stick to talking about Portugal. It's what you know BEST.
1.Most likely such an ancestor doesn't exist which is why you won't post the surname.
2. Are we supposed to be impressed by your purported degrees they haven't helped much with your writing. It isn't interesting.
3. You're latching onto the Mulatto bite sized piece of information apparently you believe you are demonstrating some sort of expertise with this rant. But okay I guess it's the narcissism trying to make of for perceived shortcomings.
4. Again you're ranting and looking rather foolish but okay I'm guessing you actually think your opinions are of some value to me, מַזָּל טוֹב with your endeavors of trying to impress.
5. Again your purported Sephardic and Spanish ancestry is betrayed by occasional slip ups and "your Black southern heritage occasionally peeks through" your a bit conflicted but that makes you occasionally mildly entertaining.
6. Apparently your slave owning ancestor was one of those nice one's you latch onto his ethnic identity for whatever personal reasons. Yes I know Rabbi's determine who is a Jew and whose not and I'm familiar with the criteria I know a couple of people who have gone to Israel and been converted.
7. Carry on I have some sunshine to enjoy the entertainment value of your post give me a couple of laughs but I now have more interesting things to do I've had my coffee and a couple of laughs.
I insist that a lot of people educated in the English speaking world are not aware that their view of Spain is biased, based on a British war tactic to discredit Spain and its people. For them is impossible that the Spanish treated the slaves better, despise the evidence. Specially int he case of the French. Even if the Spanish treated the slaves better, slavery lasted way longer than in the English colonies. Half a century longer.....
You have a point there. Sometimes I wonder if this discussion is a replay of those arguments from centuries ago.
Now, regarding the indio designation for a skin color, do these Dominicans have the ‘indio’ color?
If you search the various DNA studies that have been done on Dominicans, what becomes evident is that the samples shown here are typical Dominican genetic results.
If they are referred to as ‘indio,’ this has one of two implications.
One, if ‘indio’ is used as some people suggest, which is to hide an ancestry. If that is the case, then Dominicans are denying their African and European (mostly Spanish) origins, considering that the typical Dominican basically has as much African DNA as European, with some variations between individuals. According to those that insist that it must be a denial of the African heritage, it doesn’t makes sense when ‘indio’ as they imply Dominicans use would also negate the significant European heritage and the critics only mention the African denial. Had Dominicans been of overwhelming African ancestry, their argument would make more sense.
Second, if ‘indio’ is used as how most Dominicans say they use it, that is a simple color designator with no identity or cultural aspects intertwined (similar to designations such as fat/skinny or tall/short), then it makes sense because there is no denial of anything. This poses a new question and that is: what do Dominicans use that would be the equivalent to the American way of seeing race? For Dominicans is their nationality where their identity truly is based on?
It is quite a dilemma. On the one hand you have many foreigners and some Dominicans reacting as if the average Dominican has an overwhelming African ancestry in their DNA and insist that indio is a racial category with an identity as a base, but on the other hand you have the majority of Dominicans that say and use ‘indio’ strictly as a skin color descriptor, with no identity or racial identity attached to it.
I know Dominicans call orange anaranjado (the traditional Spanish name for that color) and mamey. Every time a Dominican use mamey instead of anaranjado, are they trying to deny that orange is called anaranjado in Spanish?
No one wants to be a slave, PERIOD. No one wants to be forced to work for free or OWNED by other people, PERIOD. It does not matter that this owner maybe nicer or that maybe meaner, the institutional of slavery itself is a crime against HUMANITY no matter WHO does it. There's no such thing as a NOBLE slaveowner.
This! Well said.
Although I don't agree with you on many things I definitely feel the exact same distasteful nature of the ideas being pedaled here. Whilst of course AntonioR's historical accounts are valid anectdotally, it's such a low bar its preposterous to say this is a reason for attitudes nowadays.
One, if ‘indio’ is used as some people suggest, which is to hide an ancestry. If that is the case, then Dominicans are denying their African and European (mostly Spanish) origins, considering that the typical Dominican basically has as much African DNA as European, with some variations between individuals. According to those that insist that it must be a denial of the African heritage, it doesn’t makes sense when ‘indio’ as they imply Dominicans use would also negate the significant European heritage
This explanation is erroneous because it negates the colonial caste system which did exist and one that we're living with the repercussions till this day.
A white person in colonial times was only the offspring of a white person and a castizo. Which became known as a white criollo. Someone with approx. Half and half African/European blood couldn't dream of being called white so instead the term 'indio' was used as an identifier as in the colonial caste system indigenous peoples are above black people. So in essence they couldn't be pronounced white (institutionally) or even Mestizo despite their large European admix, 'indio' was the next best thing especially as there were hardly any left, yet revered in the new republic societies especially as many of our revolutionary heroes were mestizo and acknowledged their indigenous side as symbol of rebellion against the Spanish crown. And this is hemisphere-wide in LatAm by the way, not just DR.
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