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Old 02-20-2019, 04:31 PM
Status: "Hope is last to lose it..." (set 1 hour ago)
 
5,205 posts, read 8,035,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
No, the term "hispanic" used as an ethnic label, like it is today, was coined in the 1970s. Before then it was a rare English word that meant things related to Spain.

There was no such thing as a "hispanic" minority group in the United States before then. Nobody before the 1980s would have known what a "hispanic" or a "latino" was. Nobody was ever called "hispanic", and nobody ever identified as "hispanic". Texans never heard of a "hispanic" before the 80s. Even in the early 90s, "hispanic" was still very new and a lot of older people had never heard of it and didn't understand what it meant.
What I’m saying is that Americans didn’t pull the Hispanic word out of thin air. It is based on a fact, which is that Hispanic has always been related to everything from Spain, including its former territories in the Americas and their people, and everything else. Its not a coincidence that every single person that today is considered Hispanic has some sort of ties to the Spanish Empire. The link between Hispanic and Spain goes back to the era of the Roman Empire and has been used first in Latin, then in Spanish, and then in English (and other languages). Notice that the word was first used in Spanish and from there it was translated to English, but its basic meaning is basically the same: a people derived from Spain. All Spanish-speaking countries in the Americas derived from Spain. The Mexican territories that the US took over and that today form the bulk of the west + the Florida peninsula derived from Spain.

Whether people were or are aware of this, including Hispanic people, means very little as far as the veracity of the meaning of the word. Again, a word and meaning that has been borrowed from the Spanish (and before that from the Romans), not the other way around.

Hispanic in its original form in Latin: Hispania (traslates to Espańa which means Spain)

Last edited by Ibginnie; 02-22-2019 at 05:52 PM.. Reason: copyright violation

 
Old 02-20-2019, 04:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
What I’m saying is that Americans didn’t pull the Hispanic word out of thin air. It is based on a fact, which is that Hispanic has always been related to everything from Spain, including its former territories in the Americas and their people
What was invented in the 70s was a new concept that didn't exist before:

Quote:
1) All people of Spanish or Latin American origin are somehow part of the same ethnic group.

Historically, Mexicans, Cubans, and Puerto Ricans were thought of as different nationalities. Latin Americans also didn't see themselves collectively before then. There are many different ethnic groups in Latin America. They weren't all part of the same ethnic group.

2) People of Spanish or Latin American origin are minorities.

Before the seventies all people of Spanish origin were considered to be white - especially by they themselves.
When this concept was invented politically, the term "hispanic" was chosen for it by a woman named Grace Flores Hugues. The word "hispanic" existed before then, but it was a rare word that meant something completely different. It was not the American government but Mexican American activists groups who invented the concept and lobbied the government to include the term on census and government forms.

"Hispanic" started officially in the 80s, and did not become a concept that was widely understood until well into the 1990s.
 
Old 02-20-2019, 06:10 PM
 
60 posts, read 22,571 times
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Those who identify with the Spanish culture & language are the Hispanics.


The Pope and the Don guy are without a doubt Hispanics, they are as Hispanic as one can get.
 
Old 02-20-2019, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
9,533 posts, read 9,417,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaxkan View Post
Those who identify with the Spanish culture & language are the Hispanics.


The Pope and the Don guy are without a doubt Hispanics, they are as Hispanic as one can get.
Pope Francis’s parents migrated from Italy, and Don Francisco’s came from Germany.
 
Old 02-21-2019, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Pereira, Colombia
976 posts, read 1,966,691 times
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I respectfully disagree. People here in Colombia use the term "latino" all the time, and they´re proud of it. Sure, excessive patriotism can be a problem, but there is a sense of brotherhood between countries. The average person here would feel much more comfortable talking to a Mexican, Peruvian, etc than a German or a North American.

What experiences have you had which led you to your above conclusions? I think you´re painting with too broad a brush. Classism and racism are problems in much of Latin America, but people still feel united on the lines of nationality, being a latino and being Spanish-speaking. Think about TV in latin america...shows beam in from all over, you can´t say that about the Anglophone world. It´s perfectly normal to see a Mexican novela, a Cuban drama, Colombian reality TV, news from the local country, and a soccer game from Argentina all in one day...and that´s just one example.

Last edited by aab7855; 02-21-2019 at 06:28 AM..
 
Old 02-21-2019, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Pereira, Colombia
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That´s an issue, yeah. There is pretty bad regionalism. But I wouldn´t call the term latino just a US invention to be scoffed at, it´s a little more complex I believe. I´ve used the term a lot here and no one has ever told me not to use that because it´s an invention of the gringos. Halloween and Valentine´s Day, yes. The term ¨latino¨, not so much.

The most raved about restaurant here is called ¨Latino¨ https://www.tripadvisor.co/Restauran...epartment.html

The leading salsa dance academy here is called ¨Ritmo Latino¨:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNszZ27cu5U

We have a beauty parlor called Belleza Latina, and a barber shop called Barberia Latinos...no connection with each other though.

Why would this word be so common in the names of places if it´s worthless to people here and doesn´t register as anything more than an over-generalized Yankee construction?

The example I´m making about TV is that the Spanish-speaking world in Latin America probably has a greater deal of contact than, say, the US to Britain to Australia to South Africa. I could have done the comparison with music too, and left out the genres people tend to deride like reggaetón, and still we´d see a smattering of artists from various countries on the same playlist. It´s just normal.

Your previous posts sure do indicate a chip on your shoulder about the United States, we all get it by now. That´s fine, it doesn´t bother me because I know the US has a lot of things wrong with it, as much its way of thinking as its organization and core beliefs; at least in an unfortunately high percentange of its population, the mindset can seem obnoxious to the rest of us. I just happen to believe that you´re really reaching on this one. And even if there is some truth to what you say, I mean, don´t you need a way to classify people who come from Latin America and/or are Spanish speaking? Mixed marriages between various Latino cultures is kind of the norm in the US, so...is the idea of some sort of unity such a strange thing? I think not.

Last edited by aab7855; 02-21-2019 at 07:27 AM..
 
Old 02-21-2019, 08:01 AM
 
2,334 posts, read 948,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7855 View Post
That´s an issue, yeah. There is pretty bad regionalism. But I wouldn´t call the term latino just a US invention to be scoffed at
It was a US invention. The concept has spread to some extent by American influence.
 
Old 02-21-2019, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Canada
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Quote:
urban Luis seems to be shocked with the fact that latin americans can be racist, and that there is a terrible problem with classism and social divisions.
I'm not shocked by that at all. I am well aware how many Latinos are racist. Specially South Americans like yourself. You hate being called 'LATINO" because it puts you in the same category as those indigenous bron Mexicans and Central Americans. That is why you keep coming back on here isn't it Irene?
 
Old 02-21-2019, 08:28 AM
 
2,334 posts, read 948,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rovia View Post
Exactly.
Latino Hispanic are American identifications created in the 70's by Nixon in the census in order to classify the growing number of Mexicans.
This is a misconception. The concept was actually invented by Mexican-American activist groups starting in the late 1960s. The purpose was to get minority benefits for Mexicans.

They wanted federal funding, affirmative action, civil rights protections, but couldn't do that because they were not a minority group - and there was no data to prove that they were being discriminated. They had to invent the whole concept and lobby the government for its inclusion. "Hispanic" essentially made all people of spanish Speaking origin into a protected minority group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rovia View Post
Since Americans tend to have no clue, and assumed everyone south of them is Mexicans, they extended the label and today thanks to reggaetón and American mass media... you have low class people absolutely convinced they belong to some rich ancient heritage called Latino.
That's not what it was about at all. When Mexicans were first fighting for recognition as a minority group in the 60s, they wanted a category just for Mexicans. They were told "No" because Mexicans were not a national group. Mexicans were a regional group just in the South West so the census denied their claim.

Then they concocted the idea that all people who speak spanish are part of the same ethnic group in order to project themselves as a national group across the United States. That was the purpose of the pan-ethnic "hispanic" concept. They went back to Washington saying that all Latin Americans and Spanish speaking people were a group, making up a bunch of stories, and were deserving of representation and funding.

Last edited by Tritone; 02-21-2019 at 08:43 AM..
 
Old 02-21-2019, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Pereira, Colombia
976 posts, read 1,966,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rovia View Post
urban Luis seems to be shocked with the fact that latin americans can be racist, and that there is a terrible problem with classism and social divisions.


HERE ARE SOME NUMBERED FACTS:

1. For centuries Latin America has been trying to rid itself from its natives. (It is only recently that they "embrace" it). Embrace it rather because it's chic to be all new age suddenly!!

2. I was in a bar in the north of Bogota recently, rather upscale…. they told a pretty mestizo looking girl that she was not allowed in because it was a private party that night… when she walked away the bouncers looked at each other and said (ugly guisa) Guisa is a pejorative term mostly to designate heavily mestizo looking people who stem from the working classes.

3. the good ole classic paisa complaining that Medellín is full of zambos (like a mixture of indians and blacks and mestizos), and how terrible that is because it was a Basque origin city with real paisas (and to them real paisas is the White and the very europassing mestizos), never the Brown ones.

4. Not to mention the systematic extermination of Amerindians in several countries. Even in the 90's in Peru the president Fujimori steriled over half a million indigenous Incan women.

5. And who can forget the classic…. choro, naco... basically a BROWN SKIN MESTIZO that Will snatch your wallet.


6. Or how the physical appearance of the people change when you venture into the rich parts of buenos aires, bogota, Sao paulo, Mexico city. Suddenly people look European!!

I remember walking around Colonia Roma in Mexico city and thinking…. wow it's like I just walked into Madrid or Rome... the only Brown skin Mexicans were the maids strolling around the blonde children.


BUT NO, EVERYONE IS JUST LATINO!!!

keep the delusion…. dont tackle the problem!

Or get ofended with reality like urban Luis.
If this is how it really is, then I´m glad I´m a "gringo" with a semi open mind. I´ll keep my invention, and apply it to all the different colors and social classes you just mentioned. I don´t care if a person is mono, trigueńo, moreno, chocoano or indigena, it´s all latino to me. That´s the advantage someone from the outside has, they cut through the B.S. that cripples other cultures, just like someone coming to the US and seeing the discrimination and double standards towards African Americans and not buying it.

Where are you from, anyway? I only ask to try to better understand your angle on all this...concepts change from country to country. A mulatto person in the US is often considered Black, and that same person in Jamaica is often considered White. Who am I to say these concepts are wrong when they´re societal?

I´ll give one more example that maybe no one covered yet. At least here in Pereira, people use the word ¨latino¨ to describe someone who is perhaps triracial and has a marked mestizaje. My wife takes after her mom´s side, which is pure Valle del Cauca...cinnamon colored skin, jet black hair, dark brown eyes. People tell me ¨Pero tu esposa se ve muy LATINA, ustedes se ven lindos juntos, que contraste tan hermoso¨.
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