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Old 04-30-2019, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
6,515 posts, read 7,456,802 times
Reputation: 10913

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
That;s the wrong approach though. If the US gets involved directly, then Maduro will use that to his advantage.
This is likely true. However if the opposition forces start making gains then we could offer them assistance. No doubt our air power would tip the balance in the favor of the opposition forces. Even better if we do it as part of a coalition of both North and South American nations. No doubt though the socialist dictatorship could spin this into an Imperial United States vs Latin America. We walk a fine line there.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Pereira, Colombia
975 posts, read 1,963,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Not going the way America would have wished at all. No business at all to invade. Perhaps lift the boycott to ease a little of the suffering and in turn allow Venezuelans to make up own minds.
The astounding thing is that the present government maintains the sup[port of military and still a lot of the people, even under such hardships. Some self imposed from within other from without.
Looks like the National Guard is jumping ship....
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Pereira, Colombia
975 posts, read 1,963,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
CBS.news is just propaganda. I don't give a ripping rats acc what Pompeo and Bolton say.

Something did go on today. Shooting between troops at the airport and major protests with members of both sides on the streets. Guaidos "mentor" has taken refuge in the Columbian embassy and some soldiers have fled to the Brazilian embassy asking for asylum.

Lots of vids in this link.

https://www.rt.com/news/457985-venez...s-lopez-chile/

I think there was a coup attempt and it failed miserably.
CBS is fake news, now let me share RT as a legit, unbiased source....
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Old 04-30-2019, 10:28 PM
 
3,110 posts, read 3,342,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
This is likely true. However if the opposition forces start making gains then we could offer them assistance. No doubt our air power would tip the balance in the favor of the opposition forces. Even better if we do it as part of a coalition of both North and South American nations. No doubt though the socialist dictatorship could spin this into an Imperial United States vs Latin America. We walk a fine line there.
Better still stay well out. There is enough destabilising of the South American continent as is. It is highly unlikely, that even the most right Wing of South American regimes would consider backing such an American venture, for unnecessarily creating internal conflict in own countries.
The so termed 'socialist' dictatorship has been holding out rather well to date. I wonder if memories of the ordinary folk in how it was in days before the socialists came to power would have something to do with that?
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Old 04-30-2019, 11:21 PM
 
2,776 posts, read 1,012,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
This is likely true. However if the opposition forces start making gains then we could offer them assistance. No doubt our air power would tip the balance in the favor of the opposition forces. Even better if we do it as part of a coalition of both North and South American nations. No doubt though the socialist dictatorship could spin this into an Imperial United States vs Latin America. We walk a fine line there.
That's exactly what he's been saying the whole time. It comes down to the fact that he knows the US is incredibly powerful. I doubt any of the neighboring countries would be willing to provide direct military assistance, even Brazil.

The bigger problem with even an aerial campaign is that you'll end up hitting civilian targets which in itself is a red flag. Plus, it will paint the opposition in a bad light, as they will come across as an organization needing the support of a foreign entity to legitimize their power, which effectively works in Maduro's favor as he gets to call it a coup.
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Old 05-01-2019, 12:16 AM
 
Location: Katy-zuela
4,852 posts, read 8,990,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
I think there was a coup attempt and it failed miserably.
The coups always fail miserably. Chávez failed in 1992. He was imprisoned but became President. 10 years later, there was another failed coup attempt against him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
The astounding thing is that the present government maintains the sup[port of military and still a lot of the people, even under such hardships. Some self imposed from within other from without.
It's said that Latin Americans are fiercely patriotic of their respective country. The balkanization has inhibited attempts of solidarity in the region.

Venezuelans are probably the most patriotic in Latin America. They don't like Imperial U.S.A. forcing a puppet down their throats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Plus, it will paint the opposition in a bad light, as they will come across as an organization needing the support of a foreign entity to legitimize their power, which effectively works in Maduro's favor as he gets to call it a coup.
If the U.S. becomes directly involved, it will only legitimize Maduro's assertions that the Opposition are puppets of the U.S. Empire. Since Venezuelans are the most patriotic in Latin America, this will not go over well with people-on-the-fence! It will push those undecideds to align with Red.

I'm surprised that Hillary Clinton is not also pulling a Guaidó out of irony right now.
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Old 05-01-2019, 03:12 AM
 
3,110 posts, read 3,342,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KerrTown View Post
The coups always fail miserably. Chávez failed in 1992. He was imprisoned but became President. 10 years later, there was another failed coup attempt against him.



It's said that Latin Americans are fiercely patriotic of their respective country. The balkanization has inhibited attempts of solidarity in the region.

Venezuelans are probably the most patriotic in Latin America. They don't like Imperial U.S.A. forcing a puppet down their throats.



If the U.S. becomes directly involved, it will only legitimize Maduro's assertions that the Opposition are puppets of the U.S. Empire. Since Venezuelans are the most patriotic in Latin America, this will not go over well with people-on-the-fence! It will push those undecideds to align with Red.

I'm surprised that Hillary Clinton is not also pulling a Guaidó out of irony right now.
Few countries would 'like' American interference in their local affairs in South America. Rightly so. Could easily 'tip' power of the growing right wing countries in the region, if any of those governments dared come out and support with troops an invasion of a fellow Latino country.
Whatever America is adding to the mess and anyone's guess how this will unfold. Probably not to the benefit of the majority people impacted.
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
6,515 posts, read 7,456,802 times
Reputation: 10913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
That's exactly what he's been saying the whole time. It comes down to the fact that he knows the US is incredibly powerful. I doubt any of the neighboring countries would be willing to provide direct military assistance, even Brazil.

The bigger problem with even an aerial campaign is that you'll end up hitting civilian targets which in itself is a red flag. Plus, it will paint the opposition in a bad light, as they will come across as an organization needing the support of a foreign entity to legitimize their power, which effectively works in Maduro's favor as he gets to call it a coup.
I would agree with much of your argument if Russians and Cubans were not already in there. We would be offering a counter to the foreign powers already there who are frankly determining the fate of that nation. One way we could do that is a naval blockade or the use of air power against the foreign assets in the nation. Again it would be up to the opposition to ask for this help and they would obviously do all the heavy lifting in taking back their country. We could simply negate the advantages the dictatorship has due to the foreign intervention that has already occurred. We at least live in the neighborhood, the Russians need to stay on their side of the ocean.
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Old 05-01-2019, 09:37 AM
 
2,776 posts, read 1,012,715 times
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This may be one of the best worded arguments I’ve found on the internet.

Quote:
It's a real shame how US Imperialism in Latin America has poisoned the argument against Maduro's removal. Many on the left believe that being opposed to American interests over there means you're automatically in the right and a symbol of your country's democratic wishes when Maduro has shown time and time again that's not the case. Just because it's not Uncle Sam's job to correct you doesn't mean your not wrong.
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
9,522 posts, read 9,405,124 times
Reputation: 6675
Can anyone make the case that Chavez turned Venezuela into a dictatorship because the US “persecuted” him? Is the US responsible for the lack of peace in that country? Why do some people in the surrounding countries want the US to invade Venezuela? If Maduro is such a treat, why don’t they do the job themselves?
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