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Old 02-24-2019, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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So far, since yesterday, over 100 Venezuelan police and military have defected at the border, turning themselves over to Colombian authorities.
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Old 02-24-2019, 09:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by aab7855 View Post
I'd heard a while back that China had established some contact with the opposition, in this case Henrique Capriles. They probably want to hedge their bets just because above all else there is a MASSIVE debt to be mindful of between those two countries. That being said, China is still in the Maduro camp for now. Russia, with all of its arms sales since the Chávez days to now, seems a little more sworn to Maduro. There was also talk of letting Russia build permanent military bases as well. Maduro has also been reaching out farther and farther away...who would have ever thought that Kim Jung Un and Tayyip Ergodan would be voicing their support for Maduro? That's where we are in 2019.

Certainly most of the left-leaning presidents of the region have backed off, and at best are simply calling for dialogue between the two sides. The suspension of Venezuela from Mercosur says a lot. If only we had more Pepe Mujicas and Evo Moraleses and less Nicolás Maduros and Daniel Ortegas.

We watched the concert last night; I certianly was not expecting to see both Guiadó and Capriles on Colombian soil. That was a bold move...I hope it ends well for them. I fear any day now that they'll be thrown into jail and added to the long list of political prisoners being held. I wonder Leopoldo was jailed and not these other two.

My far left friends on social media of course have begun to suggest that the trucks full of aid are actually carrying American-made weapons and it's only a matter of time before the Yankees turn Venezuela into another bloodbath...proof that the most outlandish conspiracies of Maduro hold sway with some here. Of course none of these people have even been to Venezuela or probably care to even talk to the Venezuelans here about what they've been through.

This is a pivotal moment.

Of course, it was a casual remark on a golf course, from memory, where Trump, did utter the words 'invasion of Venezuela, wasn't it?


Do you not feel US sanctions could just be contributing, to an already difficult situation economically embattled government?


What ever happened to non interference in the affairs of another country?
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Old 02-24-2019, 09:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by aab7855 View Post
Agreed. I´m also talking about a small but pronounced group of guys, university students who think that even people like Gustavo Petro are "capitalist imperialist fascists" in disguise, really out there beliefs if you ask me. Nothing will ever suit them with a situation like this, it´s all some sort of Yankee capitalist plot.

People who are actually somewhere on a sane political spectrum might think that the US only cares because of Venezuela´s oil, and I only hope that when all this is over they can be proven wrong just a little.

Maduro is on the wrong side of history.
Tel me again why Trump cares about Venezuela? Did someone mention oil? Hatred of Bolivar Socialists, (in back yard) regardless I guess, even if a democratically elected government, cannot be allowed to display any functioning displays of aspects of workability.
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Old 02-25-2019, 05:29 AM
 
Location: Pereira, Colombia
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Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Tel me again why Trump cares about Venezuela? Did someone mention oil? Hatred of Bolivar Socialists, (in back yard) regardless I guess, even if a democratically elected government, cannot be allowed to display any functioning displays of aspects of workability.
Like my friend 80skeys said, it´s a shame that world powers are using Venezuela as a chess piece, and I agree. Democratically elected government where none of the opposition can run against Maduro? We can´t count that really. Let Capriles run against Maduro again (and not be barred for "corruption" charges), have UN observers on the ground, and then we can start to talk about representative democracy.

I don´t doubt that sanctions are probably having an effect on Venezuela as well. But you can´t sit here and tell me that the Venezuelan gov´t actually cares when they burn trucks at the border filled with food and medicine. I don´t necessarily agree with sanctions-- they certainly did nothing in Cuba for those 50+ years.

The oil thing just doesn´t hold weight anymore. Venezuela needs US consumption more than the US needs Venezuela, sorry. The US screwed up back in 2003 with Iraq, and rightfully so that stain is still there for the world to see....but now it´s merely the perception. This is the reality: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1OA21D

Trump is so foolish for "not ruling out" the military option for Venezuela...I understand that in the game of politics it sometimes pays to remain unpredictable, but all the rumor of military intervention has done is give Maduro more rhetoric to scream from his podium and rally his inner circle and cadre of military and national guard...THEY don´t have to dig through the garbage to eat, or cross the border into Colombia to find medicine.

Last edited by aab7855; 02-25-2019 at 05:54 AM..
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Old 02-25-2019, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
What ever happened to non interference in the affairs of another country?
I'm 100% behind you on this. Unfortunately it's not the way of the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7855 View Post
but all the rumor of military intervention has done is give Maduro more rhetoric to scream from his podium and rally his inner circle and cadre of military and national guard
Oh yeah.... It just makes it that much more difficult for any forthcoming changes. More bloodshed instead of less.
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Old 02-25-2019, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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Have you guys seen Guiadó the past few days? You gotta hand it to him: he's got pantalones.
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Old 02-25-2019, 05:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
I'm 100% behind you on this. Unfortunately it's not the way of the world.

Oh yeah.... It just makes it that much more difficult for any forthcoming changes. More bloodshed instead of less.
It makes a mockery of American reasoning in this unfortunate situation. Something of a repeat of history in interference and removal of elected government. Chile, comes to mind. But the lies told, to support intervention in Iraq, in more modern times, followed by the mess that is ongoing.


Barely a single country supports intervention in the region. Even right wing governments like the newly elected one in Brazil.


Sanctions have created chaos, in an already weakened economy. Regardless of American regime dislike, and it is far from perfect, it is a bad look, making America, a nation of overwhelming power in the neighbourhood, appear the bully in the heart and minds of many south of the border.
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Old 02-25-2019, 05:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
Have you guys seen Guiadó the past few days? You gotta hand it to him: he's got pantalones.

No he's got Big Brother behind him and safe in the knowledge he has plenty to gain with nothing to lose .


Too slick for my liking and no doubt will further the interests of certain sectors. Wether that be the Venezuelan people or outside interests ...well depends on your ideological view point, I suppose.
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Old 02-25-2019, 05:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
I'm 100% behind you on this. Unfortunately it's not the way of the world.

Oh yeah.... It just makes it that much more difficult for any forthcoming changes. More bloodshed instead of less.
The way of the world? Well not exactly. The way power is abused and further confirmation that power will always win out over right. This just makes the nations, holding the reigns of power, ever less likely to surrender it. Meaning they will do whatever is required to guard it and make a point.


More bloodshed, instead of less? Surely enough to nullify the entire ideological and economical stand point?
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Old 02-25-2019, 05:35 PM
 
24,241 posts, read 17,624,924 times
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Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Tel me again why Trump cares about Venezuela? Did someone mention oil? Hatred of Bolivar Socialists, (in back yard) regardless I guess, even if a democratically elected government, cannot be allowed to display any functioning displays of aspects of workability.
Three million refugees from Venezuela in recent years have fled to other countries. As Venezuela gets worse, more will leave.

It demostrates the utter failure of third world liberation. It's socialism with no economic or technological innovation. Despite all the strong talk from Chavez and Maduro, Venezuela's money came from a state owned oil company that exported oil to be REFINED in the United States. The Venezuelans could not refine their own oil, and this is a horrible failure of progress.
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