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Old 09-02-2019, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,199 posts, read 9,654,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
Are there still pure blooded natives in the southwest?
Oh yes. Definitely. 99% of the people in the pueblos and reservations in the southwest are either pure blood or some combination with Spanish blood. The tribes in the southwest maintain strict tribal registries. Most of the people know exactly which tribal makeup they are. Most of these reservations are very insular places - outsiders don't live there. An extreme example is the Navajo reservation where there are villages that have never had electricity, not even to this day.
I will make an effort to take some photos.
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Old 09-02-2019, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
recognize the mistreatment and injustices of the past...some say we are preoccupied by it....I acknowledge it. Why can't you do the same and recognized the mistreatement and injustices of the past as a result of Spanish colonization?
Honestly, the bottom line is that everybody maltreats each other. Native tribes fought each other, killed eachother, enslaved eachother. The only differences are the scale on which it occurs, and the level of brutality.
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Old 09-02-2019, 11:57 AM
 
12,547 posts, read 18,652,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
Honestly, the bottom line is that everybody maltreats each other. Native tribes fought each other, killed eachother, enslaved eachother. The only differences are the scale on which it occurs, and the level of brutality.
Which touches on the underlining nonsensical nature of this topic:
  • America "stole" (using the verbage from the thread title) from Mexico,
  • Mexico "stole" from Spain (while at the same time stealing from other Central American provinces trying to gain there own independence),
  • Spain "stole" from the Native Americans,
  • and Native Americans "stole" from other Native American tribes.
  • If we want to go back further, Native Americans stole from the natural flaura and fauna of the land when they crossed over the landbridge from Siberia into Alaska a millennium ago.

And so the world turns...
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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UrbanLuis:

I went to my old digs in the South Valley and took some photos. I also went to Isleta Pueblo, but I don't have any photos because it's not permitted. Technically it might be permitted in the areas outside the main plaza (old pueblo), but I'm not sure. I think the restriction is mostly no photos of the places where they do ceremonial stuff in the main square. Actually there's nobody around, it would be easy to take photos, but it's important to respect their wishes and their culture. So, no photos.

But I can describe it for you. The main pueblo is a collection of dirt roads and dirt (adobe) houses winding around St. Augustine church. Some of the houses were built more recently while others are extremely old - original adobe. In some cases a newer extension is built onto the older structure. All the houses have an horno or two outside. A few of the places sell bread and little fruit pies. One of the reasons I went was to see if anyone had any piñon, which they didn't. It's been several years since there's been a crop. So I bought some oven bread instead.
The rest of the reservation looks identical to the South Valley - the same fields, the same style of houses. So, here we go with photos from the Valley. This is the typical look of the area - nothing much has changed since I was born. Wikipedia says the area is 80% Hispanic. If not more. Generations going back a long ways here.


A fancier house in the southwest style:








Alfalfa field. This is the Rio Grande Valley:








A descanso:






A typical house. You see adobe bricks stacked up in front of it:


more typical house and street scenes, weeping willow trees, cottonwood treets, and ditch (acequia):








You can see original adobe underneath the peeling whitewash top layer:



















Chanate means "black":








I took the next photo from Malpais road looking towards the mesa. When I was growing up that mesa was known as the "Black Mesa". I used to walk up there when I was a teenager. The last 30 feet at the top is a scramble up volcanic rock. My dog would chase jackrabbits on the top (she would reach the top via another route). Author Jimmy Santiago Baca (screenwriter for Blood in Blood Out) lived on Malpais Road, which means likely this is the Mesa referred to in his book "Black Mesa Poems". It's just speculation on my part.



Last edited by 80skeys; 09-04-2019 at 09:41 AM..
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Old 09-04-2019, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,017 posts, read 4,560,345 times
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Nice pics 80skeys. This is just south of Albuquerque? I really like the look of the place, looks pretty laid back. I would really like to visit NM sometime soon.

Jimmy Santiago Baca is an interesting character.
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Old 09-04-2019, 06:33 PM
 
Location: New York Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRoadkill View Post
The US didn't STEAL anything from Mexico. It was won in a war, just like all other countries. Should Europe pay reparations to the Roman Empire!
That really says it all. Certain people don't want to understand that war has consequences; the loser doesn't always get a mulligan.
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Old 09-04-2019, 06:54 PM
 
Location: New York Area
16,459 posts, read 6,498,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naners1 View Post
I don't understand why anyone would read someone else's interpretation when one can get it directly from the horse's mouth. (That is directly form Ulysses s Grant's memoirs)
As Barbara W. Tuchman explains in her brilliant introduction to Practicing History: Selected Essays, writing about recent history is difficult. Too many axes to grind. Granted, I haven't read Grant's memoirs, and I may yet.

I bought Chernow's book and am holding off reading it for a while because I recently finished Terrible Swift Sword: The Life of General Philip H. Sheridan by Joseph Wheelan. The two books likely cover similar ground.
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Old 09-05-2019, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,199 posts, read 9,654,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
Nice pics 80skeys. This is just south of Albuquerque?
Yes, adjacent to Isleta Reservation.
Quote:
I really like the look of the place, looks pretty laid back. I would really like to visit NM sometime soon.
It is laid back. You should visit. You might like it so much you will wanna move here.
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Old 09-05-2019, 12:14 PM
 
24 posts, read 10,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sf_arkitect View Post
Most America boosters are neglecting to take into account that Mexico was invaded by the US army. The capital city was sieged and eventually capitulated. At that point, the Mexican government was essentially forced to sign a treaty (i.e. sell half of it's territory) at gun point.

America's capture of the capital and the routing of Mexican forces had nearly destroyed Mexico. In Mexico, the conflivt is not taught in schools as a war for only it's northern most provinces, it is taught as an invasion of the heart of the country and a humiliating defeat.

As a 4th generation Mexican American, I sometimes get bitter when I recall the greedy/imperialist nature of America's acquisition of the mountain west and California.

But frankly, the mountain west and California have experienced greater prosperity and the regions bounty distributed more equitably under American rule than if it had been a Mexican territory.
Recall: bring (a fact, event, or situation) back into one's mind; remember

You can't "recall" something you weren't there to experience. Spare us your false outrage.
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Old 09-05-2019, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,017 posts, read 4,560,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
Yes, adjacent to Isleta Reservation.

It is laid back. You should visit. You might like it so much you will wanna move here.
You never know. It's about a 24 hour drive form where I currently live. It would be a nice road trip across the plains.
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