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Old 03-20-2019, 09:18 PM
 
120 posts, read 52,723 times
Reputation: 111

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
why speak the language of the conquistador?
Let's clarify what "the language of the conquistador" really is.

First and foremost the Spanish organized hundreds of missions throughout the southwest: San luis Obispo mission, San Diego mission, San Antonio mission, Sacramento mission, San Francisco mission and hundreds more.
Most missions grew and became towns and later cities, in a period of over three hundred years (before the Anglo settlers arrived). During those three long centuries of Spanish culture, the natives became socialized and acclimated to the new culture without completely divorcing themselves from their own culture.

Most of the work was done by the Catholic Dominican and the Franciscan orders. The Indians who did not want to be part of the mission were left alone to continue their nomadic ways, which for lots of cultures in the world was a way of life.

Some Indian groups chose both, take for example Geronimo. He was an Indian who was baptized a catholic took an Spanish name and spoke some Spanish. His tribe was independent but had lots of Spanish influence. In most westerns one sees the Indians riding their horses and attacking the Anglo Caravans. You must ask yourself where did the Indians get their horses? The Indians had already had contact with the Spanish and Mestizo people long before the Anglo settlers showed up.
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
5,827 posts, read 9,478,151 times
Reputation: 2973
Up until the mid-20th century, in New Mexico, not unusual to find Native Americans who were fluent in both Spanish and their own language.
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Old 03-21-2019, 06:18 PM
 
12,291 posts, read 18,409,613 times
Reputation: 19160
A fun historical thread and I have my own opinions about a land that Mexico, independent for only a few decades, never really owned or were able to manage after they "stole it"" from Spain, who in turn "stole it" from the american indians, but posters should be advised that OP is "not a member"

There is a reason for that (*cough* - troll and/or someone that was banned in the past for trolling...*cough*)

As usually happens once moderators align, this entire thread may dissapear and your posting efforts with it.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Where the sun always shines
1,980 posts, read 2,583,064 times
Reputation: 3771
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
With the current demographics, essentially they are taking it back. Latinos are now the majority in places like Los Angeles, New Mexico, etc. Anglos are now a minority in the state of California.

This will soon be the case in Texas as well.
Latino's are a majority in the city of LA, but not LA county. Many cannont afford the nicer parts of the county like the beach cities, Beverly Hills or Calabassas.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:51 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,874 posts, read 1,662,724 times
Reputation: 3617
Default It's a question of definitions

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post


Latinos have always been the majority in New Mexico. And finally, New Mexican Latinos are not Mexican. Not anymore than Canadians are American.
Of course Canadians are American. Everyone born & living in the Americas is, by definition, an American. What happens is that in ordinary conversation in English in the US, America is understood to refer solely to the US. Which usually is clear enough; it's when we're discussing other New World states along with the US, that we get reference problems.

The US used to be a beacon of hope for the New World - Mexico's full name, for instance, is the United States of Mexico. Just as the US was a model for nationalist forces in Islamic countries. From then to now, the attitude has changed considerably.

I think the US is still held up as an economic model, & perhaps for much more equality before the law than in most of the rest of the World, particularly Third World countries. But the full-throated desire to emulate the US in politics & cultural diversity doesn't seem to be there anymore, in the World @ large.

Last edited by southwest88; 03-21-2019 at 09:41 PM..
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,516 posts, read 3,099,103 times
Reputation: 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by naners1 View Post
Let's clarify what "the language of the conquistador" really is.

First and foremost the Spanish organized hundreds of missions throughout the southwest: San luis Obispo mission, San Diego mission, San Antonio mission, Sacramento mission, San Francisco mission and hundreds more.
Most missions grew and became towns and later cities, in a period of over three hundred years (before the Anglo settlers arrived). During those three long centuries of Spanish culture, the natives became socialized and acclimated to the new culture without completely divorcing themselves from their own culture.

Most of the work was done by the Catholic Dominican and the Franciscan orders. The Indians who did not want to be part of the mission were left alone to continue their nomadic ways, which for lots of cultures in the world was a way of life.

Some Indian groups chose both, take for example Geronimo. He was an Indian who was baptized a catholic took an Spanish name and spoke some Spanish. His tribe was independent but had lots of Spanish influence. In most westerns one sees the Indians riding their horses and attacking the Anglo Caravans. You must ask yourself where did the Indians get their horses? The Indians had already had contact with the Spanish and Mestizo people long before the Anglo settlers showed up.

don't care. speak english. makes it easier for me.
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Old 03-22-2019, 01:24 AM
 
3,063 posts, read 1,802,741 times
Reputation: 1158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
Nobody stole anything. It was an agreement, we bought it.

It didn't really belong to them anyway, they had only controlled/occupied Texas for 15 years. Mexicans have no claim to the American South West.

Texas has been under six different flags, and Mexico is just a small part of the story. They don't have any more claim to it than the French do.
With force
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Old 03-22-2019, 01:08 PM
 
2,321 posts, read 945,748 times
Reputation: 1769
Quote:
Originally Posted by the topper View Post
With force
Both parties agreed, they accepted money for it, and signed a treaty. Nobody stole anything. If you took money for something you cannot claim that somebody stole it from you. That's ridiculous.

It didn't really belong to them in the first place. Mexico controlled the land as colonial power.

Look at the history of Texas. It has been under six different flags:

Quote:
Pre-Columbian Texas 1500
French Texas 1684–1689
Spanish Texas 1690–1821
Mexican Texas 1821–1836
Republic of Texas 1836–1845
Statehood 1845–1860
Civil War Era 1861–1865
Reconstruction 1865–1899
Why on earth would Mexico's 15 year occupation of Texas mean that they have claim to it today?

Do the French have claim to Texas because they once controlled it (and a large part of the United States)? Should French people be able to come to the United States illegally and claim "This was all part of France, we are the Natives!"?

Last edited by Tritone; 03-22-2019 at 01:42 PM..
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:28 PM
 
1,095 posts, read 460,118 times
Reputation: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
Wow. A Know Nothing.

Is this a historical reenactment or are you seriously like this?
Do you have any actual arguments?
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:29 PM
 
1,095 posts, read 460,118 times
Reputation: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by southwest88 View Post
Of course Canadians are American. Everyone born & living in the Americas is, by definition, an American. What happens is that in ordinary conversation in English in the US, America is understood to refer solely to the US. Which usually is clear enough; it's when we're discussing other New World states along with the US, that we get reference problems.

The US used to be a beacon of hope for the New World - Mexico's full name, for instance, is the United States of Mexico. Just as the US was a model for nationalist forces in Islamic countries. From then to now, the attitude has changed considerably.

I think the US is still held up as an economic model, & perhaps for much more equality before the law than in most of the rest of the World, particularly Third World countries. But the full-throated desire to emulate the US in politics & cultural diversity doesn't seem to be there anymore, in the World @ large.
America will always be called America and your historical revisionism will never change it. It was the first new world American country. It is America. Only an American can be an American.
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