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Old 06-24-2019, 03:42 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,958 posts, read 36,326,747 times
Reputation: 9508

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This guy, another YouTuber who has lived abroad for over 20 years...he's talking about violence in the DR. One of the things he states is very interesting:

Places like Africa (he is currently living in Togo Africa) OVERSTATES crime for 'Aid Development Money'
Places lin DR (where he has lived at different times) UNDERSTATES crime for 'Tourist Money'.

This guy, Andy Graham, has lived outside of the U.S. for over 20+ years, and he's always talking about in his experiences living abroad, DR is one one of the worst (his opinion). It's interesting though.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjE_JeIHhXM
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Old 06-24-2019, 04:10 AM
 
19 posts, read 6,679 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Stop acting like this recent spate of deaths is normal. Its not, as is seen from the statistics of deaths in that country of Americans over the years.


We've seen the kind of things Americans have died from in the DR and similar countries over the years. And 40s to 50s something year olds haven't been dying from "natural causes"


As to your other question, I can't say that more Americans die each year than tourists from other countries; I don't have those comparative statistics. What I can say, however (as provided by the State Department source I linked earlier) is that most deaths of Americans in the DR over the years have been homicides and auto-related accidents; not "natural causes" under suspicious circumstances.


If your hypothesis was true, then I'd expect to see similar instances of deaths year by year. But that is not the case.
First you claimed these people where young yet most are around 60 on average, one of them was as old as 78. You claimed they where healthy, but most where overweight, some with chronic health issues. So what is considered unhealthy in your country, someone that needs a mobility scooter to get around? lol Now either you didn't do enough research on these people or you're being dishonest here, which one is it? The reality is Americans have the most overweight people, and the highest rates of heart disease, gastrointestinal problems, etc..in the developed world. So if you use common sense you can see that obviously Americans are going to die at a higher rate from these problems than Europeans just as they do in the USA. Also, you failed to actually show how many people died of "natural causes" in the links you posted above.

Being grossly overweight is not normal in most parts of the world. So I agree there's nothing normal about what's going on here. It looks like we just have a peak of very old, fat, unhealthy Americans visiting our country. They are just statistic aberrations, for example like how in some years in the USA there's a spike of heart attacks, suicides by gunshots, or school shootings, etc. Statistics don't always follow an exact pattern year by year.

Now of course you cannot show me how many Europeans are dying from "natural causes" in our country, because the numbers are insignificant as Europeans are much healthier than Americans by a wide margin. If there was a higher rate of Europeans dying it would be all over your garbage media for sure. But they have nothing, just a bunch of elderly overweight Americans dying from their own crappy health conditions they come here with.

Let's look at another young healthy American from New York. This is the one that needed dialysis due to a history of kidney problems and diabetes. These people have no regard for their own bodies so they;re dropping like flies.

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Old 06-24-2019, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,061 posts, read 9,573,024 times
Reputation: 3114
We need to return to two crucial points here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
In [2017], there were 17 American deaths in the Dominican Republic:
-4 homicides
-8 vehicle related accidents
-2 "other accident"
-1 drowning
-2 suicides
4 homicides, 2 suicides, and 11 accidents in 2017. How is this any different than 2019?


Second crucial point:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grabandgo View Post
But Americans love a good conspiracy, specially one that makes them the victim. lol
This is probably the single biggest factor affecting the news. 95% of the discussion on this thread can be attributed to it.
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Old 06-24-2019, 09:10 AM
 
1,422 posts, read 1,737,437 times
Reputation: 1645
Love the DR, but my guess is pesticides that are banned in the U.S. Terminix used some in St. John, V.I. a few years ago that almost killed a Doctor's entire family and left them debilitated. The compounds can be highly, highly toxic.

Maybe alcohol, but not my Brugal.
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Old 06-24-2019, 09:22 AM
 
1,188 posts, read 519,067 times
Reputation: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
We need to return to two crucial points here:

4 homicides, 2 suicides, and 11 accidents in 2017. How is this any different than 2019?


Second crucial point:

This is probably the single biggest factor affecting the news. 95% of the discussion on this thread can be attributed to it.
It amazes me how people can't see this. The media has become one giant tabloid if it bleeds it leads. Even metaphorically. And people are to clueless to see it.
People have to rely on solid sources for news. Not social media hearsey, and dubious yahoo homepage articles/stories. Much of the big three national evening news broadcasts are nonsense now.
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Old 06-24-2019, 10:29 AM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,140 posts, read 6,433,532 times
Reputation: 11863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banilejo View Post
First you claimed these people where young yet most are around 60 on average, one of them was as old as 78. You claimed they where healthy, but most where overweight, some with chronic health issues. So what is considered unhealthy in your country, someone that needs a mobility scooter to get around? lol Now either you didn't do enough research on these people or you're being dishonest here, which one is it? The reality is Americans have the most overweight people, and the highest rates of heart disease, gastrointestinal problems, etc..in the developed world. So if you use common sense you can see that obviously Americans are going to die at a higher rate from these problems than Europeans just as they do in the USA. Also, you failed to actually show how many people died of "natural causes" in the links you posted above.

Being grossly overweight is not normal in most parts of the world. So I agree there's nothing normal about what's going on here. It looks like we just have a peak of very old, fat, unhealthy Americans visiting our country. They are just statistic aberrations, for example like how in some years in the USA there's a spike of heart attacks, suicides by gunshots, or school shootings, etc. Statistics don't always follow an exact pattern year by year.

Now of course you cannot show me how many Europeans are dying from "natural causes" in our country, because the numbers are insignificant as Europeans are much healthier than Americans by a wide margin. If there was a higher rate of Europeans dying it would be all over your garbage media for sure. But they have nothing, just a bunch of elderly overweight Americans dying from their own crappy health conditions they come here with.

Let's look at another young healthy American from New York. This is the one that needed dialysis due to a history of kidney problems and diabetes. These people have no regard for their own bodies so they;re dropping like flies.

1) The ages of Americans who have died in the DR under somewhat mysterious circumstances are as follows: 56, 55, 53, 63, 49, 41, 67, 45, 51, 60.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/19/us/do...ead/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/19/us/do...ead/index.html

https://www.yourtango.com/2019325383...nican-republic

I haven't seen anyone as old as 78, but even if there is such a person, the bulk of the people aren't "old" by my definition. And people largely in their 40s and 50s/early 60s aren't old by most standards either, especially given the average lifespan of Americans. The only dishonesty we are seeing here is from you, finger picking a few older deaths while ignoring the ages of the vast majority of Americans who have died under mysterious circumstances in the DR in the last year or so. Try that form of reasoning somewhere else The fact that some people had pre-existing health conditions (and you can be otherwise healthy despite being overweight) does not mean that you're at death's door in your 40s/50s/etc.

2) You pointing to the fact that more Americans would die of certain health related problems doesn't really help your argument, particularly given that such has not been the cause of deaths by and large of Americans vacationing in the DR or elsewhere as I supplied via the State Department's compilation of American deaths by country over the years. Your point could be sound reasoning if you could show that American travelers were dying of similar causes over the years. Indeed, given that the eating habits and weight of Americans over the last however many years really hasn't changed, I'd expect that we'd see similar cases of American tourists "dropping like flies" over the years in the DR and elsewhere. But, as I've mentioned and supplied evidence of via the US Department of State, that is not the case. The statistics show what we are seeing here is not something that is normal. You can continue to ignore what is before you, but that much is clear. And, true, statistics do not have to follow an exact pattern. But the fact remains that, looking back year after year after year, what we are seeing here is unusual and should be cause for concern/make people question what exactly is happening; and, again, the eating habits and weight of Americans hasn't drastically changed over the years. This isn't a case of not just no exact pattern, but of a completely different pattern trend from what we've seen before.

Note, it may be that the deaths are ultimately explainable and not suspicious. But to treat this as just old fat Americans "dropping like flies" ignores the data and statistical patterns.

3) If there were cases of Europeans dying in our country under questionable circumstances, it would be news. Again, the fact that people die on vacation isn't noteworthy in itself, especially if explained away by by things like auto-related incidents, drownings, etc. If we had cases of Europeans in their 40s/50s dying in the US while on vacation from causes of death that were outside the norm, yes, it would be news.

4) I do not have the tally of Americans who are said to have died of natural causes; I just recall that being listed as a cause of death for more than one American tourist in the DR under these circumstances on the news. But that doesn't change my narrative. These were people (with the exception of one, whose family says his death was somewhat expected) who were not at death's doors and whose deaths present a completely different pattern of deaths as far as causation goes of American tourists in the DR and elsewhere.
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Old 06-24-2019, 10:34 AM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,140 posts, read 6,433,532 times
Reputation: 11863
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
We need to return to two crucial points here:

4 homicides, 2 suicides, and 11 accidents in 2017. How is this any different than 2019?


Second crucial point:

This is probably the single biggest factor affecting the news. 95% of the discussion on this thread can be attributed to it.
For this spate of deaths we are discussing here, there are no assumed suicides, no auto-related accidents (that's what the bulk of the accidents were in 2017), and no confirmed homicides. Much is unknown about the exact cause of death, but they definitely are out of the norm from years prior.
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Old 06-24-2019, 12:24 PM
 
138 posts, read 26,623 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
The bigger issue is why are all of the autopsies inconclusive.

It's either incompetence or cover-ups or lack of wanting to put financial resources into the autopsies.
DR is one of the few countries that all the autopsies are done by a forensic pathologist, here in the US 70% are not done by a medical professional at all.

the US has the worst autopsies system in the industrialized world and light years behind even Latin america.

learn



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnoMsftQPY8
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Old 06-24-2019, 01:13 PM
 
19 posts, read 6,679 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
1)
I haven't seen anyone as old as 78, but even if there is such a person, the bulk of the people aren't "old" by my definition. And people largely in their 40s and 50s/early 60s aren't old by most standards either, especially given the average lifespan of Americans. The only dishonesty we are seeing here is from you, finger picking a few older deaths while ignoring the ages of the vast majority of Americans who have died under mysterious circumstances in the DR in the last year or so. Try that form of reasoning somewhere else The fact that some people had pre-existing health conditions (and you can be otherwise healthy despite being overweight) does not mean that you're at death's door in your 40s/50s/etc.

2) You pointing to the fact that more Americans would die of certain health related problems doesn't really help your argument, particularly given that such has not been the cause of deaths by and large of Americans vacationing in the DR or elsewhere as I supplied via the State Department's compilation of American deaths by country over the years. Your point could be sound reasoning if you could show that American travelers were dying of similar causes over the years. Indeed, given that the eating habits and weight of Americans over the last however many years really hasn't changed, I'd expect that we'd see similar cases of American tourists "dropping like flies" over the years in the DR and elsewhere. But, as I've mentioned and supplied evidence of via the US Department of State, that is not the case. The statistics show what we are seeing here is not something that is normal. You can continue to ignore what is before you, but that much is clear. And, true, statistics do not have to follow an exact pattern. But the fact remains that, looking back year after year after year, what we are seeing here is unusual and should be cause for concern/make people question what exactly is happening; and, again, the eating habits and weight of Americans hasn't drastically changed over the years. This isn't a case of not just no exact pattern, but of a completely different pattern trend from what we've seen before.

Note, it may be that the deaths are ultimately explainable and not suspicious. But to treat this as just old fat Americans "dropping like flies" ignores the data and statistical patterns.

3) If there were cases of Europeans dying in our country under questionable circumstances, it would be news. Again, the fact that people die on vacation isn't noteworthy in itself, especially if explained away by by things like auto-related incidents, drownings, etc. If we had cases of Europeans in their 40s/50s dying in the US while on vacation from causes of death that were outside the norm, yes, it would be news.

4) I do not have the tally of Americans who are said to have died of natural causes; I just recall that being listed as a cause of death for more than one American tourist in the DR under these circumstances on the news. But that doesn't change my narrative. These were people (with the exception of one, whose family says his death was somewhat expected) who were not at death's doors and whose deaths present a completely different pattern of deaths as far as causation goes of American tourists in the DR and elsewhere.

You haven't seen one as old as 78 years of age or you haven't bothered to search for this particular individual. Is it pure laziness or are you just naturally dishonest. Anyone can easily just search "78 year old dead in Dominican Republic" and find what you're having trouble looking for. The geriatric guy was named Jerry Curran, so let's do simple math here for you; when you add 78 to all those numbers and round it to the nearest ten you get a number that is in fact closer to 60 mark than it is to 50, and nowhere near the 40 mark. Again, that is very old by any definition and scientifically your body will start to deteriorate naturally at a certain age regardless of what your own subjective definition of "old" or "young" is. Now don't tell me you also have a personal definition of what you consider to be overweight or perhaps obese? Or course you can be healthy and be "overweight" technically, but clearly these people are not robust fitness models or bodybuilders, they are fat hunks of blubber. What matters is your body fat percentage in relation to muscle mass, and the people I showed you here are over the limit in their fatness. And someone with messed up kidneys who needs dialysis treatment isn't healthy by any stretch of your imagination.

Furthermore the average lifespan of Americans isn't exceptionally high either compared to most developed first-world countries, and I'm sure you knew this fact already. It is common knowledge that compared to most Western Europeans the average American doesn't live that long, and is in fact closer to some developing countries, and even lower than countries like Chile and Costa Rica for example. Coincidentally the average American dies at about 78 years of age, and 76 years of age for the average male, so this Jerry Curran fellow outlived the majority of American men. People in their 60s and 70s are old by any definition and by any standard be it scientifically, culturally, socially, if you are close to this age you are an old person period, claiming otherwise is delusional.

Now your main problem here is that you have failed to provide actual numbers of how many Americans have died from natural causes in previous years, obviously the homicides, vehicular accidents, drownings, etc. are not counted as natural causes, so the data that you provided here is simply incomplete and worthless in this discussion. Or are you assuming that no Americans have ever died from "natural causes" in the those previous years you showed? The onus is on you now to provide the data of these Americans who are dying here.

Also what makes you think that the eating habits of the average American hasn't changed in recent years? Do you have the facts showing that your people's eating habits haven't gotten worse, and are you sure that you aren't getting fatter and less healthy year after year after year. It's funny because when I do a quick search now I get a bunch of results showing that your obesity rates keep increasing every year. And why do you keep repeating that "it's not normal", of course it's not normal, who the claimed this is normal? it's not just your eating habits that are abnormal, but your whole way of life is sedentary due to your sub-urbanized culture. Americans rarely walk long distances with the beautiful sun shining in their face, you're typically inside an air-conditioned car or in some big box Wal-mart type shopping center, so your people are not used to the most basic of physical exertions that most humans are accustomed to thus you have very low health. And this year it looks like we got the bulk of these stereotypical suburbanite unhealthy Americans, like I said it's a statistic aberration. It's an unlucky year for obese and elderly American tourists in Punta Cana. But tell me what do you think is happening, you still haven't offered your own theory on what's going on here. Don't tell you're one of those conspiracy theorist nuts who believes there's some serial killer targeting the tourists here. lol

Now again, if Europeans where actually dying right now in DR at the rate of these unhealthy Americans it would ALSO make headlines in your media, you know for damn sure this would be all over the news in America, so they can keep this story going, and reel in the paranoid Americans who seem to afraid of their own shadows. It would add to their narrative that's "something is going on" and that it's something that's not normal. lol You still can't tell my why Europeans aren't dying at higher rates when they come here by the millions. Like I said in total 6 million tourists come here every year, and less than half of the tourists we receive are from your country, so why is the grim reaper so infatuated with fat Americans over here?
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Old 06-24-2019, 02:43 PM
 
138 posts, read 26,623 times
Reputation: 70

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw2J...ature=youtu.be
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