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Old 06-17-2019, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,943 posts, read 36,139,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Isnít most people in Brazil very light skin and the notion that they are mostly darker is a USA myth?

Isnít that very similar that in the USA they think most Brazilian are very sexual and liberals when in reality most Brazilians are conservative?

They did a DNA study a few years ago and found that even the ones that consider themselves black tend to be mostly of European descent. It was published in the Spanish newspaper El Pais. With self-proclaimed Brazilian mulattoes and blacks the European average is 60%. It caused a shift in many places with the way they see Brazilians.

https://elpais.com/sociedad/2011/02/...16_850215.html
It's such a huge country. Salvador will have a much visible African population, whereas southern Brazil will even have German-Brazilians and Polish-Brazilians and very European vibe.

I think most of the stereotypes are centered around Cariocas (those living in Rio de Janeiro). Carnival is there, and you have a high mix of black/white combinations along with everyone else.

But when you go to other cities, they have completely different mixes going on.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:09 AM
 
1,209 posts, read 1,484,158 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
When were you last in Brazil working professionally? A lot of things can change in 20 years.

I’m not discounting your experience and thank you for sharing it. But sometimes people will report conditions on the ground on a place they have not been to in decades and it isn’t necessarily accurate.
I heard they are now implementing Affirmative action throughout colleges in Brazil. I don’t know if things will change, though.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:13 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 11 days ago)
 
5,166 posts, read 8,017,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homenj View Post
I heard they are now implementing Affirmative action throughout colleges in Brazil. I don’t know if things will change, though.
Yeah, it has caused a huge confusion in that country. They copied the USA (Lula da Silva is the main president behind this and he said it himself.) Many aspects of the affirmative actions had to be removed because it was too confusing for Brazilians.

Some people even claimed to be black just to gain access to the resources, but in person they claim something else. Others claim one thing while the other claim something else and both are identical twins. Its simply crazy. I guess that’s what they get for copying the USA word-for-word.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:30 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 11 days ago)
 
5,166 posts, read 8,017,583 times
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I have to say that when affirmative action was put in place in the USA, where it coincides with the history, it created no problems for the population, except some backlash. Copy it word-for-word in Brazil and people don’t even know how to identify but most people want the resources. To make matters worse, they identify one way to get the benefit of affirmative action, but identify some other way in reality. SMH
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:24 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,219 posts, read 19,521,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Anyways, those were my two biggest observations. The U.S. seemed more racially separated with how people socialize and interact on their free time (with a multitude of exceptions of course)....but the U.S. was significantly better when it came to employment laws and legislating things that had race involved as opposed to Brazil/Latin America.
So, it appears that different countries practice their racism in different ways. If you can't subjugate minorities one way, then just try to do it another way. lol

What a surprise.
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:15 PM
 
12,256 posts, read 18,390,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
So, it appears that different countries practice their racism in different ways. If you can't subjugate minorities one way, then just try to do it another way. lol

What a surprise.
Racism is not limited to one country, trust me. Like I said I was frankly shocked going into a Brazilian office and only seeing white faces when I knew the population was much more diverse then what I saw in that office.

The only difference, for better or worse, is that the US talks about it more. In fact, we are preoccupied with it.
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale
1,130 posts, read 552,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homenj View Post
I have family in Peru and I feel like there, Peruvians may make jokes about racial minorities but at the end of the day, no matter whether you are Afro Peruvian or Chinese Peruvian, you’re still Peruvian.

However I feel in the United States, its the reverse. Here, I feel we talk about being post racial and act as if we are so “progressive.” You can’t make racial jokes in public, for example.

Still, at the end of the day you’re black or Latino, and your race carries more weight over your American nationality. Whereas in Latin America its the exact opposite.

One example of this is the difference between minority presidents in the United States and Peru. Alberto Fujimori was still the “Peruvian president” not the “Asian president” or even “Asian Peruvian president.”

On the other hand, Obama was still known as “the black president.”

I’d like to hear what are your thoughts. I particularly want to hear the experience of African Americans who have also been to Latin America and what their thoughts on this subject are, as well
I respectfully disagree. You are the expert in regards to Peru. Your experience there carries far more validity. However, the historical legacy of the Spanish casta defies "unity". It is a caste system based on skin color - the lighter complected citizens are higher up the caste. Many Spanish colonies had that social casta in place for centures, and its aftermath can still be felt today.

How do I know this? I am an indigenous member of a tribe that the Spanish colony had tried to kill off through a policy of genocide and slavery. The early Spaniards destroyed entire tribes or enslaved them. If the tribes fought back, then a scalp bounty system was set to pay pesos to kill off the tribes such as Apaches, Comanches, Kiowas, Navajos, etc. The Spanish-Indios War lasted hundreds of years. The Comanches and Kiowas drove the Spanish Army out of Central Texas. The wars were fierce. There was no "unity". That pattern was common in many Spanish colonies. Mexico enslaved some indigenous tribal members into the 1900s. The last shootout between Apaches and the Mexican troops occurred in the 1930s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comanc...%93Mexico_Wars
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,943 posts, read 36,139,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
So, it appears that different countries practice their racism in different ways. If you can't subjugate minorities one way, then just try to do it another way. lol

What a surprise.
Yes, that's true. It's a misnomer that it ONLY happens in the United States.

I've never heard of any country in the world that was 'kumbaya'. People by nature will divide themselves in some way or another to subjugate others for a grab of power. The polarization of 'other'. Even if they are of the same ethnicity or religion; they'll find a way.

The only way to deal with it is Education; but even then, you can't educate everyone to believe the same.
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Old 06-18-2019, 06:49 AM
 
726 posts, read 380,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
White American here who left the U.S. about twenty years ago, and also lived in Brazil.

I won't describe the U.S. reality as almost everyone on city-data already knows about that reality. But two BIGGEST things I noticed/observed.

SOCIALLY, blacks/whites MIX often in Brazil. It would be downright strange to go into a bar or restaurants or sporting event and see little groups of only blacks and only whites (which is common in the U.S.). They all sit and mix socially altogether all of the time pretty much everywhere in Brazil, or at least Sao Paulo where I was living at. It was also a shock to go back into the U.S. and see how socially divided everyone is as well.

JOBS...this is where everything changes significantly. Whites/Europeans in Sao Paulo have all the good jobs. I used to teach English in companies/corporations throughout Sao Paulo. While I saw poor whites just like I saw poor blacks....the moment I went into a company/corporation/office building, pretty much everyone was white/European-origins. This is the opposite of the U.S., where you'll see blacks and whites working in offices together as colleagues, even if they socialize separately. I remember one of my students was a very light-skinned black Brazilian guy; and whenever we talked he always shared how thankful his skin was so light despite his features were more African. He always verbalized that his light skin features were what gave him an office job.

Anyways, those were my two biggest observations. The U.S. seemed more racially separated with how people socialize and interact on their free time (with a multitude of exceptions of course)....but the U.S. was significantly better when it came to employment laws and legislating things that had race involved as opposed to Brazil/Latin America.
Racism is not the real reason what it happens in Brazil, but history.
First, paulistas are of recent Europeans background, 100 years ago when this state had half million people arrived 2 millions Europeans being 1 millions Italians and most from Veneto, ligther skinned italians, ligther than the average Brazilian-Portuguese white.
So how Sao Paulo is the richest state, having the headsquare of the biggest companies in Brazil of course you will see these overhelming whites paulistas with more central European looks at offices.

The people in blue collar jobs are poor migrants from northern Brazil (mostly mixed and blacks), Bolivia, Haiti and Africa. They are to Sao Paulo what center americans are for the USA.
Sao Paulo had never large slavery workforce used in farms. When the coffee plantation starded here the slavery had already over and because that these 2 millions Europeans were brought here.

But we have another big issue, one big mistake from the past… Brazil until 1950 was a rural country, so the dumb Brazilian goverment at that time thought was not important educate the rural workforce. While Argentina and Uruguay as example were educating all their population, Brazil educated only the urban cities population with really good free school and college. So until in 1960 we had 60% of Brazilian population FULLY ILITERATED (whites and blacks but 90% of the blacks were farme workers). When Brazil started its industrialization in 1950 we had illiterate people coming from the interior to dispute job opportunities with well educated city citizens (whites). Because that you saw poor whites and poor blacks in blue collar jobs but only whites with few exceptions in white collar jobs.

The white paulistas and southern brazilian (from recent immigrants background, not the white from portuguese colonial stock) in another hand even being their grandparents farm workers as well, as they were from europeans countries that already valued education 100 years ago, they created theirselves colonial schools for its kids and driven them for college education. Because that languages like German, Italian and Japanese is spoken in Brazil yet, and because that Sao Paulo and south Brazil is prety much richer than the rest of the country.

Brazil just universalizated the education (elementary school and high school) 20 years ago, and only 10% of all brazilians have college degree so the things is only starting change now... we are really rich country for the few educated people we are.
The blacks in USA have the same education of the whites for much longer because that is easier for the clever black american get high position than the clever black Brazilians lacking formal education.
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:19 AM
 
1,193 posts, read 584,004 times
Reputation: 938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
White American here who left the U.S. about twenty years ago, and also lived in Brazil.

I won't describe the U.S. reality as almost everyone on city-data already knows about that reality. But two BIGGEST things I noticed/observed.

SOCIALLY, blacks/whites MIX often in Brazil. It would be downright strange to go into a bar or restaurants or sporting event and see little groups of only blacks and only whites (which is common in the U.S.). They all sit and mix socially altogether all of the time pretty much everywhere in Brazil, or at least Sao Paulo where I was living at. It was also a shock to go back into the U.S. and see how socially divided everyone is as well.

JOBS...this is where everything changes significantly. Whites/Europeans in Sao Paulo have all the good jobs. I used to teach English in companies/corporations throughout Sao Paulo. While I saw poor whites just like I saw poor blacks....the moment I went into a company/corporation/office building, pretty much everyone was white/European-origins. This is the opposite of the U.S., where you'll see blacks and whites working in offices together as colleagues, even if they socialize separately. I remember one of my students was a very light-skinned black Brazilian guy; and whenever we talked he always shared how thankful his skin was so light despite his features were more African. He always verbalized that his light skin features were what gave him an office job.

Anyways, those were my two biggest observations. The U.S. seemed more racially separated with how people socialize and interact on their free time (with a multitude of exceptions of course)....but the U.S. was significantly better when it came to employment laws and legislating things that had race involved as opposed to Brazil/Latin America.

EXACTLY! When it comes to power/earnings/education, Latin America is OBVIOUSLY less integrated.
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