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Old 06-28-2019, 04:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Except it didnít disappear.

Black People in Latin America practice African based religions much more than Black Americans, have greater African influence in music, art, food, and overall culture.

Iím not sure why whites declare themselves experts on cultures and people they know nothing about. Iíve never been to Greece for example and will not talk about agree due to insufficient actual knowledge.


Of course the reason for this was that a majority of black Cubans and Brazilians are descended from peoples brought from Africa in the 19th C. When slavery ended substantial numbers of African born peoples remained, so much so that significant numbers of Brazilian blacks moved back to the regions in Africa where their not too distant ancestors came from.


The American black is a fully creolized black. Even as less than 450k arrived DIRECTLY from Africa by the 1870s 10x the numbers were living in the USA, and the vast majority having had no direct contact with African born people. Hence AA culture has less obvious African components when compared to Afro based cultures of much of the Caribbean and Latin America.
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Old 06-28-2019, 04:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
People in Latin America do not commonly call themselves mulattoes. .


and yet a Brazilian here is using that term. The gov't of Colombia uses that term as they attempt to collect data on so called Afro descendants in that country.
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Old 06-28-2019, 05:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
Too often people attempt to class the English-speaking Caribbean based on their knowledge of islands like Jamaica. But they fail to realize Jamaica has a significantly different history than certain other islands. And their location also limited other influences as well.

(Also, the Virgin Islands are not all the same. The US Virgin Islands have a Danish background, not Anglo)


1. I see little difference at this time between islanders from St Thomas, St Maarten or St Kitts. The fact that their colonial histories might have been different doesn't really impact their modern populations. I will put all 3 squarely into the creole cultures of the north east Caribbean. The creoles of the first two islands come from a similar base as is the case with the rest of the English speaking Caribbean. In fact I would see these 2 "non British" islands as being closer to that of the Anglo Caribbean than I would tie Trinidad with its substantial Afro French creole/Latin cultural influences.




2. And yes there is a significant African component within Jamaican culture. Each Caribbean island has had a different history and so the heritages might be different. This impacts how African influences manifest.


Trinidad, Grenada and Guyana received not insignificant numbers of West Africans AFTER slavery ended. In the first two countries, which are catholic, the Shango/Orisha survived. In Guyana the survival was in the Kwe Kwe pre wedding ceremonies which mirror what one might see in West Africa. Jamaica, Barbados and the Leeward Islands are almost exclusive slave descended populations (the black component that is).


So to claim that one Afro descendant culture is less "African" than another doesn't work, except in the case of the AAs. And given that slavery in the USA was based on "growing" domestic slaves, unlike elsewhere where continuous importation direct from Africa was the case, one would expect fewer African survivals among AAs.
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Old 06-28-2019, 05:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
I am AA, but I lived with people from Sierra Leone in the U.S. for a number of years at college. The country has 14 ethnic groups with only 14 million people. With Africans, you automatically become friends with their
friend. So me and another AA, we ended up having friends from the different ethnic groups within that
country and I got educated on their histories,differences, In the process also, I picked up 60% of the Krio
language and got taught words in the Mende language (one of the major ethnic groups) and was given a
Mende nickname. along with a couple other words from other ethnic groups.

This expanded into having friends from Nigeria,Cameroon and Ghana. Was invited to go to Sierra Leone and
and Nigeria at one time but a military coup overthrew the government and there was civil unrest in those
countries.

I also know AA women who have been to West Africa, one was married to a Nigerian national and lived
there for 20 years. Am thinking of going to Ghana at some point.


I have been to SL and the Krio language mirrors that of the Anglophone Caribbean. I easily understood the urban speakers of it, though rural speakers were more of a challenge to understand. I can understand Nigerians speaking pidgin, though they do throw in various African words.
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Old 06-28-2019, 05:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
]


And now you become an expert on the English speaking Caribbean and also of how African culture manifests itself. Amazing. Now I would have thought that you visited at least 6 islands and left the tourism areas, mixing with the grass roots people.


I live in a place with large numbers of Anglophone West Africans as well as Anglophone Caribbean blacks. Until they open their mouths you don't know which is which. Africa is also not static. It has developed its own traditions of Christianity, brought these to the USA and many Caribbean blacks participate in this. Clearly they share something culturally.


The speech patterns of the English speaking Caribbean have very heavy grammatical and other influence from West Africans and in fact there are strong similarities in the English vernacular spoken in both regions. Even the use of tonal speech patterns. "She dead" can meaning any number of things, all indicated by the tone! As in "she dead", "she dead", "yes is dead she dead". And the ample use of hot sauce (African based) in routine Anglo Caribbean cooking, and as a condiment. Cuban food is blander.


In the Bahamas their Goombay traditions are very African in origin. The musical and dance traditions of the Anglophone Caribbean are very African influenced, to the point where one can watch videos and see the same moves, even as those from the Caribbean are completely unaware of how similar these are to those in West Africa.


I went to an African concert in NYC a few years ago and one of the performers invited some women do dance. After one finished he asked her which country in Africa she was from. Her answer was that she was from one of the Caribbean islands. He asked her how she learned how to dance like that. She was confused as she thought that she was merely engaged in African dance.


So African cultures in the Caribbean manifest differently and you really ought to go to a Nigerian Pentecostal church.
Never said I was an "expert" just gave my theory of what I thought from an American standpoint, I do
remember seeing Goombay signs in the Bahamas. I DO know there are obviously more overt African things
in the Anglo-Caribbean than in the U.S.

I would think that a Nigerian Pentecostal church would manifest differently than an AA Pentecostal church
just by the fact the culture is different. However I was struck by the similarity between an Nigerian
Anglican Church and a typical AA Baptist church. (saw a video on Youtube and thought "This is like Central
Baptist Church" a church in my area.

I do know of a church where the pastor is AA but many of the congregants are Nigerian and AA (I think the
church originates out of one of the Nigerian sects there "International something or other"
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Old 06-28-2019, 05:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
I have been to SL and the Krio language mirrors that of the Anglophone Caribbean. I easily understood the urban speakers of it, though rural speakers were more of a challenge to understand. I can understand Nigerians speaking pidgin, though they do throw in various African words.
The one I had trouble picking up was Jamaican Patois ( I went to a Caribbean/African Film Festival once)
and the movie was in Patois but after 20 mins. I think I got the general idea of what was going on). A
Jamaican friend told me she was discouraged from speaking Patois at home as she said her family considered it
low class and said she should speak proper English, but she spoke it anyway.
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Old 06-28-2019, 11:58 PM
 
Location: Caribbean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
1. I see little difference at this time between islanders from St Thomas, St Maarten or St Kitts. The fact that their colonial histories might have been different doesn't really impact their modern populations. I will put all 3 squarely into the creole cultures of the north east Caribbean. The creoles of the first two islands come from a similar base as is the case with the rest of the English speaking Caribbean. In fact I would see these 2 "non British" islands as being closer to that of the Anglo Caribbean than I would tie Trinidad with its substantial Afro French creole/Latin cultural influences.




2. And yes there is a significant African component within Jamaican culture. Each Caribbean island has had a different history and so the heritages might be different. This impacts how African influences manifest.


Trinidad, Grenada and Guyana received not insignificant numbers of West Africans AFTER slavery ended. In the first two countries, which are catholic, the Shango/Orisha survived. In Guyana the survival was in the Kwe Kwe pre wedding ceremonies which mirror what one might see in West Africa. Jamaica, Barbados and the Leeward Islands are almost exclusive slave descended populations (the black component that is).


So to claim that one Afro descendant culture is less "African" than another doesn't work, except in the case of the AAs. And given that slavery in the USA was based on "growing" domestic slaves, unlike elsewhere where continuous importation direct from Africa was the case, one would expect fewer African survivals among AAs.

That’s just it. The point of my response to that poster was that the colonial heritage of the English-speaking Caribbean differs from island to island. I agree with you with regards to St. Thomas, St Maarten and St. Kitts and also that islands like Trinidad have significant French-Creole/Latin influences. St. Lucia and Dominica having much stronger French-Creole influences.

However, the poster’s focus was mainly religious and so my comments were dealing mainly with that. To label the English-speaking Caribbean as only Protestant in heritage is very much inaccurate. Some islands were Catholic and that affected the type of African retention there, especially as it pertains to religion. My comment about Jamaica - the first island English-speaking island he mentioned - was not to say that there isn’t a significant Africa component retained but that its retention is not representative of the entire English speaking Caribbean.
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Old 06-29-2019, 12:19 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
Never said I was an "expert" just gave my theory of what I thought from an American standpoint, I do remember seeing Goombay signs in the Bahamas. I DO know there are obviously more overt African things in the Anglo-Caribbean than in the U.S.
Perhaps doing basic research about the individual English-speaking islands would be best then. You assumed the entire English-speaking Caribbean was Protestant. Why? How did come up with that “theory?”
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Old 06-29-2019, 02:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
Perhaps doing basic research about the individual English-speaking islands would be best then. You assumed the entire English-speaking Caribbean was Protestant. Why? How did come up with that “theory?”
My thought was if the island was English-speaking, then it was a former British Colony, and the British had the
Church of England which was Protestant. I should have specified what "less African" ment. My thought was
this: I was speaking in terms of religion, I read where the Catholic Church was, it allowed the Africans to "hide"
their original gods "behind" the Catholic Saints, hence Voodoo in Haiti, Candomble, Macumba in Brazil and
Santeria.


More African religious elements in Catholic areas vs. less African religious elements in the Protestant areas. All of these forms are not in the original forms like say in Benin. "Less African" was a bad choice of words.

I know that just from reading,Latin/ Caribbean culture is way more African based than anything we have in the
United States, even New Orleans or the Gullah/GeeChee people in the Georgia Sea Islands or Mississippi
Delta black folk culture.

I admit I have very limited social experience with Caribbean/Latin culture, the Islands are more complex
than I thought. As stated, I am more familiar socially with West Africans. I should read more on the
Caribbean.
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Old 06-29-2019, 06:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
1. I see little difference at this time between islanders from St Thomas, St Maarten or St Kitts. The fact that their colonial histories might have been different doesn't really impact their modern populations. I will put all 3 squarely into the creole cultures of the north east Caribbean. The creoles of the first two islands come from a similar base as is the case with the rest of the English speaking Caribbean. In fact I would see these 2 "non British" islands as being closer to that of the Anglo Caribbean than I would tie Trinidad with its substantial Afro French creole/Latin cultural influences.




2. And yes there is a significant African component within Jamaican culture. Each Caribbean island has had a different history and so the heritages might be different. This impacts how African influences manifest.


Trinidad, Grenada and Guyana received not insignificant numbers of West Africans AFTER slavery ended. In the first two countries, which are catholic, the Shango/Orisha survived. In Guyana the survival was in the Kwe Kwe pre wedding ceremonies which mirror what one might see in West Africa. Jamaica, Barbados and the Leeward Islands are almost exclusive slave descended populations (the black component that is).


So to claim that one Afro descendant culture is less "African" than another doesn't work, except in the case of the AAs. And given that slavery in the USA was based on "growing" domestic slaves, unlike elsewhere where continuous importation direct from Africa was the case, one would expect fewer African survivals among AAs.
49. WEST INDIAN AND AFRICAN MIGRATION TO GUYANA

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2717498...n_tab_contents

https://www.landofsixpeoples.com/news02/ns206206.htm

https://www.stabroeknews.com/2013/ne...y-arrived-too/


Sierre Leoneans,Angolans,Congolese ,Krus,Akus,Black Portuguese,Cape Verdans,and West Indians all migrated to Guyana after emancipation as laborers. You also had some groups from Central and East Africa come there too, a couple of my great grandparents are ones.

Shango /Orisha in Trinidad gets a great deal from Cuba.Guyana had a lot Obeah religious practices.

Last edited by PrizeWinner; 06-29-2019 at 06:53 AM..
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