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Old 06-15-2019, 10:25 AM
 
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I have family in Peru and I feel like there, Peruvians may make jokes about racial minorities but at the end of the day, no matter whether you are Afro Peruvian or Chinese Peruvian, you’re still Peruvian.

However I feel in the United States, its the reverse. Here, I feel we talk about being post racial and act as if we are so “progressive.” You can’t make racial jokes in public, for example.

Still, at the end of the day you’re black or Latino, and your race carries more weight over your American nationality. Whereas in Latin America its the exact opposite.

One example of this is the difference between minority presidents in the United States and Peru. Alberto Fujimori was still the “Peruvian president” not the “Asian president” or even “Asian Peruvian president.”

On the other hand, Obama was still known as “the black president.”

I’d like to hear what are your thoughts. I particularly want to hear the experience of African Americans who have also been to Latin America and what their thoughts on this subject are, as well
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Old 06-15-2019, 10:33 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 11 days ago)
 
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In the US race does carries a bigger meaning than in Latin America. There is an identity attached to it in the USA (even minorities than have been in the US for centuries.) People are also much more touchy about this in the US.

A person needs to live in both places or at least spend enough time in both places to notice this.

The history explains why this is so in both places.

As far as Obama goes, just keep in mind that a real black hasn’t made it to the White House. Obama used his “black identity” and his “mixed identity” depending on the audience, but always to gain the most votes. When someone only had their “black identity” and can’t choose win the election is something else. I reality, the US had its first mixed race president. A real black one hasn’t arisen yet.
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Old 06-15-2019, 03:16 PM
 
1,193 posts, read 584,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
In the US race does carries a bigger meaning than in Latin America. There is an identity attached to it in the USA (even minorities than have been in the US for centuries.) People are also much more touchy about this in the US.

A person needs to live in both places or at least spend enough time in both places to notice this.

The history explains why this is so in both places.

As far as Obama goes, just keep in mind that a real black hasn’t made it to the White House. Obama used his “black identity” and his “mixed identity” depending on the audience, but always to gain the most votes. When someone only had their “black identity” and can’t choose win the election is something else. I reality, the US had its first mixed race president. A real black one hasn’t arisen yet.

No its not better in Latin America. Look at Mexico's power structure with those with Spanish blood featured in all the Novela tv shows. Look at the complexion of Mexico's political leaders? And there is a racist character, Memi Pinquin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memín_Pinguín that remains popular there but is blatantly racists in its depiction of black people.

Next, Look at Brazil and Argentina's lracial eadership make-up.
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:32 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 11 days ago)
 
5,166 posts, read 8,017,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walker1962 View Post
No its not better in Latin America. Look at Mexico's power structure with those with Spanish blood featured in all the Novela tv shows. Look at the complexion of Mexico's political leaders? And there is a racist character, Memi Pinquin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memín_Pinguín that remains popular there but is blatantly racists in its depiction of black people.

Next, Look at Brazil and Argentina's lracial eadership make-up.
I thought you only lived in several places of the USA and have only lived in the USA. Learn something new everyday.
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Old 06-16-2019, 02:39 PM
 
24,192 posts, read 17,574,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walker1962 View Post
No its not better in Latin America. Look at Mexico's power structure with those with Spanish blood featured in all the Novela tv shows. Look at the complexion of Mexico's political leaders? And there is a racist character, Memi Pinquin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memín_Pinguín that remains popular there but is blatantly racists in its depiction of black people.

Next, Look at Brazil and Argentina's lracial eadership make-up.
I saw Black People through the socioeconomically strata in Bogota, Colombia. Latin America is South America, all of Central America, Mexico, and parts of the Caribbean.

It’s hard to make generalizations for such a huge region.

And just because it may very well
Be true race relations are better in much of Latin America does not mean you have to get defensive about it.
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:10 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,943 posts, read 36,139,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homenj View Post
I have family in Peru and I feel like there, Peruvians may make jokes about racial minorities but at the end of the day, no matter whether you are Afro Peruvian or Chinese Peruvian, you’re still Peruvian.

However I feel in the United States, its the reverse. Here, I feel we talk about being post racial and act as if we are so “progressive.” You can’t make racial jokes in public, for example.

Still, at the end of the day you’re black or Latino, and your race carries more weight over your American nationality. Whereas in Latin America its the exact opposite.

One example of this is the difference between minority presidents in the United States and Peru. Alberto Fujimori was still the “Peruvian president” not the “Asian president” or even “Asian Peruvian president.”

On the other hand, Obama was still known as “the black president.”

I’d like to hear what are your thoughts. I particularly want to hear the experience of African Americans who have also been to Latin America and what their thoughts on this subject are, as well
White American here who left the U.S. about twenty years ago, and also lived in Brazil.

I won't describe the U.S. reality as almost everyone on city-data already knows about that reality. But two BIGGEST things I noticed/observed.

SOCIALLY, blacks/whites MIX often in Brazil. It would be downright strange to go into a bar or restaurants or sporting event and see little groups of only blacks and only whites (which is common in the U.S.). They all sit and mix socially altogether all of the time pretty much everywhere in Brazil, or at least Sao Paulo where I was living at. It was also a shock to go back into the U.S. and see how socially divided everyone is as well.

JOBS...this is where everything changes significantly. Whites/Europeans in Sao Paulo have all the good jobs. I used to teach English in companies/corporations throughout Sao Paulo. While I saw poor whites just like I saw poor blacks....the moment I went into a company/corporation/office building, pretty much everyone was white/European-origins. This is the opposite of the U.S., where you'll see blacks and whites working in offices together as colleagues, even if they socialize separately. I remember one of my students was a very light-skinned black Brazilian guy; and whenever we talked he always shared how thankful his skin was so light despite his features were more African. He always verbalized that his light skin features were what gave him an office job.

Anyways, those were my two biggest observations. The U.S. seemed more racially separated with how people socialize and interact on their free time (with a multitude of exceptions of course)....but the U.S. was significantly better when it came to employment laws and legislating things that had race involved as opposed to Brazil/Latin America.
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:50 AM
 
24,192 posts, read 17,574,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
White American here who left the U.S. about twenty years ago, and also lived in Brazil.

I won't describe the U.S. reality as almost everyone on city-data already knows about that reality. But two BIGGEST things I noticed/observed.

SOCIALLY, blacks/whites MIX often in Brazil. It would be downright strange to go into a bar or restaurants or sporting event and see little groups of only blacks and only whites (which is common in the U.S.). They all sit and mix socially altogether all of the time pretty much everywhere in Brazil, or at least Sao Paulo where I was living at. It was also a shock to go back into the U.S. and see how socially divided everyone is as well.

JOBS...this is where everything changes significantly. Whites/Europeans in Sao Paulo have all the good jobs. I used to teach English in companies/corporations throughout Sao Paulo. While I saw poor whites just like I saw poor blacks....the moment I went into a company/corporation/office building, pretty much everyone was white/European-origins. This is the opposite of the U.S., where you'll see blacks and whites working in offices together as colleagues, even if they socialize separately. I remember one of my students was a very light-skinned black Brazilian guy; and whenever we talked he always shared how thankful his skin was so light despite his features were more African. He always verbalized that his light skin features were what gave him an office job.

Anyways, those were my two biggest observations. The U.S. seemed more racially separated with how people socialize and interact on their free time (with a multitude of exceptions of course)....but the U.S. was significantly better when it came to employment laws and legislating things that had race involved as opposed to Brazil/Latin America.
When were you last in Brazil working professionally? A lot of things can change in 20 years.

I’m not discounting your experience and thank you for sharing it. But sometimes people will report conditions on the ground on a place they have not been to in decades and it isn’t necessarily accurate.
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:55 AM
 
12,256 posts, read 18,390,529 times
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Yeah I was going to mention Brazil, during my business trips it appeared to be very segregated, with almost exclusively the whites and lighter skinned in the office, and darker skinned in the more menial jobs. I was actually kind of shocked because the bias was just so obvious, it would have never been allowed in the US as people would start raising hell and laws would be passed. I know that the population of Brazil was diverse but you would have never known it visiting an average business office.

It's a bit more complex there for sure, it's always seemed more of a background/class issue than just a race issue. Historically it always has been in latin america - there are degrees of blackness and same with Indian mixed blood.
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,943 posts, read 36,139,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
When were you last in Brazil working professionally? A lot of things can change in 20 years.

I’m not discounting your experience and thank you for sharing it. But sometimes people will report conditions on the ground on a place they have not been to in decades and it isn’t necessarily accurate.
Good point, and it was twenty years ago, and it could have changed.
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Old 06-17-2019, 07:38 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 11 days ago)
 
5,166 posts, read 8,017,583 times
Reputation: 4264
Isn’t most people in Brazil very light skin and the notion that they are mostly darker is a USA myth?

Isn’t that very similar that in the USA they think most Brazilian are very sexual and liberals when in reality most Brazilians are conservative?

They did a DNA study a few years ago and found that even the ones that consider themselves black tend to be mostly of European descent. It was published in the Spanish newspaper El Pais. With self-proclaimed Brazilian mulattoes and blacks the European average is 60%. It caused a shift in many places with the way they see Brazilians.

https://elpais.com/sociedad/2011/02/...16_850215.html
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