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View Poll Results: Best option
Propose to annex itself to United States 3 37.50%
Propose to annex itself to France 5 62.50%
Voters: 8. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-07-2019, 10:44 AM
 
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That’s not true, anyone that has been to the DR recently can testify to the large numbers of Haitians in that country. There are more that are legal, but most are still illegal. The world’s only free regularization plan only went so far (in the US each Haitian head had to pay $1,000 for a TPS permit, which I think Trump eliminated for this country).

Next January will be the 10th year anniversary of the earthquake. I guess it will also be the first decade a French president visited Haiti. Had it not been due to the earthquake a French president would had never visited the place. I think that says it all from there. He also promised to build the National Palace. That wouldn’t really help the people, but it was a promise. At the first end of the day Haiti had to build its own National Palace, because waiting for the French to do it is a laugh and a slap in the face. In the mean time, during the crisis the DR open all its public hospitals to Haitians that need it. I remember a Haitian senator I think was flown to the HOMS clinic in Santiago. That poor man would had died any other way. The DR president at the time promised a university in Limonade and it’s there. They built it from scratch and in record time. While the Dominican army was not allowed in Haiti due to Haitian politicians complaining at the time, many public and private help went to Haiti from the DR. Even the Barahona airport was allowed to accept all air heading for Port-au-Prince because its airport was off service for a long time. Jamaica offered its hospitals, but when Haitian raft reach its eastern shores the government change its mind and deported all Haitians they could catch. Cuba didn’t offer to help in the country, but they too deported all the Haitians they catch.

Apparently France was going to go bankrupt or an economic crisis would had happen if Mr Sarkozy kept his word.

The good thing is that statistically Port-au-Prince is not suppose to suffer another earthquake for a long time. The last time was in the 1700s.
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Old 07-07-2019, 11:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Thatís not true, anyone that has been to the DR recently can testify to the large numbers of Haitians in that country.

Nonetheless, Dominicans are lazy when it comes to working; Haitians are not.
And Haitians work cheaper than Dominicans, so the need has always existed.
Vivio en Jarbacoa para dos anos.
As for the poll, didn't answer b/c neither is an option.
France isn't going to pay a 300 year old debt for raping the land, and the U.S. has maintained a hands off policy for decades.
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Old 07-07-2019, 12:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sunbiz1 View Post
Nonetheless, Dominicans are lazy when it comes to working; Haitians are not.
And Haitians work cheaper than Dominicans, so the need has always existed.
Vivio en Jarbacoa para dos anos.
As for the poll, didn't answer b/c neither is an option.
France isn't going to pay a 300 year old debt for raping the land, and the U.S. has maintained a hands off policy for decades.
Makes me wonder why Dominicans did many jobs that used to pay for whole families and stopped doing them when the wages either went down or stay the same (which when inflation is taken into account, its going down in real terms). Some sectors were always so cheap that they never attracted a decent amount of Dominicans. In any case, most of the economy hires Dominicans. In fact, the vast majority of workers have always been Dominicans. In neighboring islands such as Puerto Rico Dominicans are now doing the work that they stop doing in the DR. Somehow the lazy folks in the DR find the motivation in PR. I wonder what could it be? The DR changed so much in recent decades, because a person needed to go to sugar areas or the border to see a Haitian. Now they are almost everywhere.

The Dominican government was very flexible in the regularization plan with all the extension it offered. It also made it so easy to show a “relationship” with Dominican society. People could even show a simple letter from their landlord or one from an employer to be accepted into the plan, plus completely free for Haitians (all other foreigners had to pay multiple times). It shows that most Haitian immigrants migrated to the country after the earthquake. Anyone can verify this since a large segment of the Haitians don’t speak Spanish or speak it like someone that learn the language quite recently.

I know France isn’t doing much for Haiti. They are too busy with the departments of Martinique and Guadaloupe in the Lesser Antilles plus the almost empty and much bigger French Guyana on the north coast of South America (where they send their rockets to outer space). Like I said in the other post, the French president said it all with the way he treats this country. Very different how the Spanish government and monarch treats its neighbor. Dominicans get preference in visas to Spain and in 2 years living there can become citizens while other non-Hispanic people have to live 10 years to apply for that European Union citizenship plus show dominance in the Spanish language. Does anything like that exist for the Haitians in Europe or in France? I know Haitians don’t get preferential treatment in Spain and need to wait the 10 years like everyone else.

I hope the best for Haiti, but reality is that that country will not change anytime soon. They are now 10 or 11 million and growing. Basically all Haitians because foreign people hardly move there. In the near future they are going to be more, not only are they growing but are faster than the economy.

In the greater scheme of things Dominicans as a people are living better lives in the DR and abroad. The question is whether the Haitians are living equal or better lives too. I think we all know the answer to that. Foreigners also know that and that is part of the reason the vast majority of people that are foreign to the island choose to move to the DR. Even people that claim to help Haiti eventually move to the DR.

Last edited by AntonioR; 07-07-2019 at 01:23 PM..
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Old 07-07-2019, 04:14 PM
 
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Just stumbled upon this report, U.S. won't even let them in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HQ-3_P46wA
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Old 07-08-2019, 06:52 PM
 
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There is a thread about this I think in the Mexican forum, though it includes other people too. Itís a tangent.

The topic of this thread are good ideas for Haiti. The OP simply doesnít know the idiosyncrasy of the people there, but that idea is simply not for the people. A few other people have suggested a few ideas, but nothing is really concrete about this country.

Already itís known as the NGO nation, because that is the American country with the most NGOs in the hemisphere. Some care about the people, but what they do doesnít have the effect they want and that leads for burnout of many people that volunteer. Other NGOs simply like the money that they handle from Haiti. A small part of the money go to some project and the bulk go to satisfy the luxurious lifestyle of people that work for these NGOs. You do see them at the swankiest restaurants in Pentionville and traveling in late model SUVs around Port-au-Prince when their lifestyle should be more ground to earth, like leaders of other NGOs do. Some of them even fall into international scandals, like what happen a few months ago with the leader of an NGO sleeping with underage girls. Apparently, thatís his ďhelpĒ over there.

Political instability concerning the current president doesnít help at all and Port-au-Peince had quite a few violent political manifestations in the past year or so.

The UN is finally leaving that country. Lets hope the National Police and the reinstituted Haitian army is able to keep the peace. Lets remember that a soldier from some Asiatic country was pooping in a river and introduced Cholera to the country, infecting thousands of people. Leta keep in mind that Haiti is a country where something as simple as a bad cold actually kills people. Malaria and other diseases are widespread because the government doesnít have an effective vaccination campaign, the hospitals are relatively few, and most hospitals donít have basic medicines. This includes hospitals in Port-au-Prince where most public hospitals have a shortage of beds and are over flowing with people. HIV and Aids is so widespread over there that its taken into account for its life expectancy. A lot of babies are born with that disease and when the symptoms begin to show, most people feel the full effect because most of them donít have access to treatment.

There is also the environmental problem due to a massive tinder problem. Forests used to cover most of the country, but now forest cover is around 1%. Whole rivers have dried up, many mountains had their top soil completely washed because of how hard it rains in the Caribbean, and the productivity of many farms has gone down in many areas. There are hardly any national parks because there is not much left for conservation.

People donít know how bad it is until they go there and visit. The biggest two questions in peoples minds is how is this possible? and is this real? In Port-au-Prince I have seen grown men washing themselves in broad daylight, in the middle of the street, and as naked as God brought them. I have seen women in their 50s carrying stuff on their head simply stopping and squatting in the streets and doing the necessities and then getting up and continue to walk as if its nothing. People living in hovels for miles and miles, and many people living without the basic necessities, not even a bed.

The people are nice, the food is great, and the culture is captivating. But there is also a reality staring at everyoneís face when they travel around the city.

Cap Haitien, the Palace of Sans Souci, and the La Ferrere in a mountain was very interesting (I tend to like historic places), but I will never forget the amount of garbage, the pollution, and the amount of people walking everywhere that I saw going into the city for the first time. The area that Caribe Tours air condition buses pass through looks simply horrible.

Nothing prepares you for what you see there. You can read about it, watch the videos and photos that you want. Until you see it with your own eyes, you simply donít know.

Last edited by AntonioR; 07-08-2019 at 07:33 PM..
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:08 AM
 
742 posts, read 391,562 times
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Originally Posted by HomeHunt82 View Post
Haiti is best off sending as much of their population as possible to other countries. As mentioned, Haiti can’t support such a large population with so few resources and such a weak economy. The Caribbean countries with small populations like Barbados, Bahamas, Antigua and Trinidad are generally pretty successful with very-high quality of life/HDI scores.

The next option would be for Haitian immigrants and their children in Western countries to fund and frequently visit/spend their money in Haiti (kinda like how the Jews support Israel). Haitians generally do okay in NY (oftentimes working multiple jobs) so I can see this happening; they just have to increase their numbers in the super high-paying STEM, Finance and Doctor professions.

Next, they should go the tourism route like the other islands. They can really exploit the voodoo thing and show themselves as some mystical island with magic, potions and a super-unique culture. But it would take years for them to clean up their inage.
1/3 of haitian population already live abroad only from Brazil they send 100 millions dollars year to Haiti. After the earthquake in 2010 Brazil leadered the rebuilding trough ONU and gave work permits for at least 100.000 haitians exactly because that, to raise the remittances.

Almost 1 million haitian live in USA, 50% of their GPD is from remittances

USA gives to Haiti a preferencial export program for decades, the main product exported by Haiti are clothes made in Haiti by international brands because the tariff incentives for export to USA, they make almost 1 billion dollar in exports.

Cruise caribbean ships stop there giving almost 1 million tourists year to Haiti.


I think all things people suggested here already were done to help them but a 10 or 15 millions people country needs much more than that, needs a minimal productive economy to support this big population.
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:13 PM
 
148 posts, read 27,835 times
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Originally Posted by EVANGELISTTI View Post
1/3 of haitian population already live abroad only from Brazil they send 100 millions dollars year to Haiti. After the earthquake in 2010 Brazil leadered the rebuilding trough ONU and gave work permits for at least 100.000 haitians exactly because that, to raise the remittances.

Almost 1 million haitian live in USA, 50% of their GPD is from remittances

USA gives to Haiti a preferencial export program for decades, the main product exported by Haiti are clothes made in Haiti by international brands because the tariff incentives for export to USA, they make almost 1 billion dollar in exports.

Cruise caribbean ships stop there giving almost 1 million tourists year to Haiti.


I think all things people suggested here already were done to help them but a 10 or 15 millions people country needs much more than that, needs a minimal productive economy to support this big population.
  • Haiti should explore other options like developing a shipping port, a hub of some kind. Haiti is in the middle of the Caribbean and that should count for something.
  • Haity should just give land to private developers to develop a housing program for the Haitian diaspora to own property there.
  • Haiti should open a second cruise port in the south shore.
  • Haiti should foster the construction of a marina in the harbor of fort Liberte.
  • Haiti should explore a full scale development of ille a vache, as a luxury destination and cruise port.
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Old 07-30-2019, 07:44 PM
 
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Haitians will die to every last man, woman and child before we allow ourselves to be annexed by the USA. Like we did when they occupied. We'd rather starve ourselves than be annexed by the USA. How about you non-Haitians STOP worrying about Haiti and Haitians problems because you don't care. But before you do tell the USA and West to STOP meddling in Haiti's affairs and STOP taking about our presidents(i.e Aristide) and forcing us to trade with Taiwan over China.
[url]https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/997108888754380800?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5E tweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E997108888754380800&ref_url=h ttps%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwitter.min. html%23997108888754380800[/url]

And also threatening us if we side with our long time friend Venezuela.
[url]https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/13008[/url]

Looking at you Rubio.... So FOH with your fake "concerns." Our only real friends are Cuba and Venezuela. The best idea is these protesters overthrowing the Western backed PHTK party. Bringing the Lebanese/Syrian elites to justice. Ditching Taiwan for Chinese infrastructure development and forming closer military ties to Cuba and Venezuela and maybe Russia too. Another good idea would be developing the Nord region since its already has potential for tourism.
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Old 07-30-2019, 09:30 PM
 
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Some people have no ties to Haiti and do care about the place and the people. Lets not confuse that minority with others that has no ties to Haiti but pretends to care because of the good pay and lifestyle it gives them.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:06 AM
 
450 posts, read 159,028 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADOSwarrior View Post
Haitians will die to every last man, woman and child before we allow ourselves to be annexed by the USA. Like we did when they occupied. We'd rather starve ourselves than be annexed by the USA. How about you non-Haitians STOP worrying about Haiti and Haitians problems because you don't care. But before you do tell the USA and West to STOP meddling in Haiti's affairs and STOP taking about our presidents(i.e Aristide) and forcing us to trade with Taiwan over China.
https://twitter.com/marcorubio/statu...08888754380800

And also threatening us if we side with our long time friend Venezuela.
https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/13008

Looking at you Rubio.... So FOH with your fake "concerns." Our only real friends are Cuba and Venezuela. The best idea is these protesters overthrowing the Western backed PHTK party. Bringing the Lebanese/Syrian elites to justice. Ditching Taiwan for Chinese infrastructure development and forming closer military ties to Cuba and Venezuela and maybe Russia too. Another good idea would be developing the Nord region since its already has potential for tourism.
You see that kind of mentality is what keeps haiti in the hole, its all about putting blame on somebody else, revenge, ect.

Yeah you will go against the US and and join Cuba and Venezuela, then what? from where are you going to get tourists for developing the north? China? thats a 16 hour flight, who will invest a cent in an isolated Haiti?
that archaic, brute, way of thinking is what keep Haiti down.

You dont need to look too far if you want to see how things are done. just look at DR, just established relations with china and at the same time is expected to have the highest economic growth in Latin america this year. DR gets 54% of all investment in the Caribbean.
there is no reason why Haiti cannot do the same. But scaring investors with calls to join Venezuela (-30% GDP_2019) or Cuba (-4% GDP_2019) no one will go or invest a cent in Haiti.

Last edited by upthere22; 07-31-2019 at 08:39 AM..
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