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View Poll Results: Best option
Propose to annex itself to United States 2 33.33%
Propose to annex itself to France 4 66.67%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 07-06-2019, 11:00 AM
 
75 posts, read 14,847 times
Reputation: 78

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In the nicest way possible, Haiti is a failed state economically and politically. Maybe its best for Haiti to annex itself as a overseas territory to a more wealthy powerful country. Haiti had trade embargoes placed on it by USA and France, since those countries are partly the reason for Haiti's demise (as well as Haiti's own super corrupt government), maybe they should be obligated to help and take care of the problem that they created. Or maybe another option like annexation to another country or evacuating the country altogether.

I did not include the option of uniting with DR due to cultural/racial reasons, that union will inevitably result in Civil War since the vast majority of Dominicans are fierce nationalists and rightfully so, most prefer to stay independent separate from Haiti.

Opinions.

Last edited by coconada; 07-06-2019 at 11:16 AM..
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Old 07-06-2019, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,853 posts, read 2,517,157 times
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Force France to return the modern day equivalent of the reparations its extorted from Haiti for the loss of slaves, which is about $21 billion.

Haitians, in my experience, prefer to stay independent from the DR as well as others.
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Old 07-06-2019, 01:12 PM
 
628 posts, read 475,176 times
Reputation: 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
Force France to return the modern day equivalent of the reparations its extorted from Haiti for the loss of slaves, which is about $21 billion.
.


That might be a good start, if Haiti had competent leadership. But as things are currently, it would be money tossed down the drain.


What they ideally could benefit from would be an enlightened autocrat for a couple of decades. A truly benevolent dictator who forces the population to comply and wipes away all of the backward, stupid traditions and forces them to accept advanced, fully modern culture. And does all of this with the intent of enabling first world democracy in the future rather than a family dynasty. (a Haitian Ataturk?)


These types of guys are once in a blue moon and lets be honest, in reality its not gonna happen. They might have had such a leader out of the gate in Louverture had he not been captured. Although those that came after would have screwed things up anyway and Haiti would still likely be 3rd world today.


The two options given are out of the question, Haiti will remain independent. I guess the west can do a bit more of what we have been doing, build infrastructure, schools, disaster relief. There just is no good option that will solve things in the medium-term. Its going to be a long-term process.
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Old 07-06-2019, 02:09 PM
 
5,452 posts, read 8,134,511 times
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Anyone that think Haitians would prefer to annex themselves to any country has no idea what they are talking about. lol

Despite everything, Haitians are a very proud people and they want the best for their country and being independent is one of them. They don’t like the situation the country is in right now, but they like their country’s history and the good things the place have, many of which are not apparent to a foreigner at first glance.

Talking about Haiti not being a country or attached to another country is simply not an option at all. They might be a divided country in some ways, but Haitians due unite to defend their place and their independence. They simply put aside whatever is dividing them and they unite when it comes to that stuff.
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Old 07-06-2019, 02:18 PM
 
5,452 posts, read 8,134,511 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
Force France to return the modern day equivalent of the reparations its extorted from Haiti for the loss of slaves, which is about $21 billion.

Haitians, in my experience, prefer to stay independent from the DR as well as others.
I say France has a monetary and a moral debt with Haiti. They are simply too non-chalant about it when they should be much more involved in helping that country develop.
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Old 07-06-2019, 08:01 PM
 
105 posts, read 36,106 times
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Haiti is best off sending as much of their population as possible to other countries. As mentioned, Haiti can’t support such a large population with so few resources and such a weak economy. The Caribbean countries with small populations like Barbados, Bahamas, Antigua and Trinidad are generally pretty successful with very-high quality of life/HDI scores.

The next option would be for Haitian immigrants and their children in Western countries to fund and frequently visit/spend their money in Haiti (kinda like how the Jews support Israel). Haitians generally do okay in NY (oftentimes working multiple jobs) so I can see this happening; they just have to increase their numbers in the super high-paying STEM, Finance and Doctor professions.

Next, they should go the tourism route like the other islands. They can really exploit the voodoo thing and show themselves as some mystical island with magic, potions and a super-unique culture. But it would take years for them to clean up their inage.

Last edited by HomeHunt82; 07-06-2019 at 08:16 PM..
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Old 07-07-2019, 01:32 AM
 
156 posts, read 105,011 times
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Originally Posted by homehunt82 View Post
they can really exploit the voodoo thing and show themselves as some mystical island with magic, potions and a super-unique culture.
lmao you got to be kidding
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Old 07-07-2019, 05:23 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,853 posts, read 2,517,157 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeHunt82 View Post
Haiti is best off sending as much of their population as possible to other countries. As mentioned, Haiti can’t support such a large population with so few resources and such a weak economy. The Caribbean countries with small populations like Barbados, Bahamas, Antigua and Trinidad are generally pretty successful with very-high quality of life/HDI scores.
First, Trinidad & Tobago has over 1.3 million people and it is already dealing with an influx of Venezuelans. How are you even putting it in the same category as the Bahamas, Barbados and Antigua? Also, Haitians already go to the Bahamas and the Bahamas has become tougher about their immigration. Countries can’t just send their people elsewhere. Nations have immigration laws.

Quote:
The next option would be for Haitian immigrants and their children in Western countries to fund and frequently visit/spend their money in Haiti (kinda like how the Jews support Israel). Haitians generally do okay in NY (oftentimes working multiple jobs) so I can see this happening; they just have to increase their numbers in the super high-paying STEM, Finance and Doctor professions.
Yes, this is happening already...

Quote:
Next, they should go the tourism route like the other islands. They can really exploit the voodoo thing and show themselves as some mystical island with magic, potions and a super-unique culture. But it would take years for them to clean up their inage.
Orisha religion (like Voodoo) is hardly unique in the Caribbean. There is Santería, Shango and other forms in the region. Also people tend to be hesitant, if not afraid, of Orisha religion. Not sure how effective that would be. Haiti is already unique and is putting effort into tourism. There’s just much to do in order to make the place more attractive to tourists.
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Old 07-07-2019, 08:04 AM
 
5,452 posts, read 8,134,511 times
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Haiti isn’t some country in Africa or in Asia, where most of the people alive today would exists with or without the arrival of the French. In order for Haiti to arise as an independent country and as a people (not just the identity and culture, but also the physical people), the French needed to be there first. There is no way around this. Haiti’s independence movement happen the way it did precisely because how the French treated them. After Haiti became independent, the French instead of helping the place put more barriers.

It doesn’t matter which way a person wants to look at it, the French share a responsibility with what Haiti has become. More so with a country like Haiti than any other country they have influenced around the world. Saint-Domingue (modern day Haiti) was the richest colony ever created in the world. There are still palaces in Paris that have Haitian wood as part of their indoor decorations! Adam Smith talks about the greatness of that place in his book The Wealth of Nations. Cap Haitian (which at that time was Cap Francois) was the richest city in all of the Americas with the most mercantile ship lines to Europe.

Now the French government want to pretend it never happen. Never mind that you can actually see it in many palaces of Paris, some of which are tourist attractions. In Haiti itself they even have the names of leading French families in various places of their geography. For example, near Gonaives is a place named Desdunes. It turns out on that same place the Desdunes family grew the best cotton grown in the Western Hemisphere.

Last edited by AntonioR; 07-07-2019 at 08:35 AM..
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:17 AM
 
1,274 posts, read 633,474 times
Reputation: 1364
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
I say France has a monetary and a moral debt with Haiti. They are simply too non-chalant about it when they should be much more involved in helping that country develop.

The problem with helping Haiti is, like the earthquake relief efforts; corruption will bleed away all the $$ donated. They built some nice(and unused)recreational areas, yet residents still have no running water. The Dominicans just threw them all out, after a supreme court ruling that nobody of Haitian descent shall remain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WvKeYuwifc
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