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Actually Beyonce is viewed as a black woman in Colombia.
.Many people here are mixed white, amerindian and black. A lot of people are the descendants of the three groups.
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I think 10% is a reasonable figure for the black population in Colombia including mixed people of predominantly black ancestry. The Atlantic Coast is very diverse in terms of population.
Bogota is an overwhelmingly white/mixed city, there are black people that come from other regions of Colombia but they are not common.
Hope this helps.
I am willing to bet that the 10% number comes from those who are relatively dark skinned, and African featured. Those with the other mixtures that you describe don't see themselves a "black" and disappear into the overall mixed population. In fact I have seen estimates where up to 20% of the population has visible evidence of African ancestry, but those who are more mixed will not identify with this.
I am willing to bet that Beyoncé will be seen as different from Oprah. And I am willing to bet that many like Beyoncé will not define themselves within that 10%.
Yes. He would be called a moreno and moreno is not exclusively used to describe Black people. A brunette white personal can be called moreno, context depending, and so can a native person, an Indian, or an Arab. So Williams is moreno.
You clearly read extremely outdated boos in Latin America with a lot of misinformation!
Moreno has different meanings depending on where one is. Moreno is used to describe a "black" person in the Spanish Caribbean, a euphemism instead of "negro". In Brazil a Moreno is a light skinned person who isn't quite white.
Please don't disgrace yourself that Jesse Williams will be considered "black" in the DR. In fact he is LIGHTER than most other Dominicans. Just start a thread titled "most Dominicans are black" and you will see the screams that you will get.
In fact in NYC you often hear Dominicans referring to non Hispanic blacks as "Moreno". If you hear that they are probably talking about you!
Andrea Tovar is from Choco anyway...but just because people use the term black doesn't mean they don't see someone like Tovar as having mixed heritage as opposed to someone like Wesley Snipes.
Choco is seen as the black region of Colombia, so that might well be part of it. If she came from the Caribbean coast it might well be a different story.
You've been told by a Colombian here that the mulatto isn't used there, and that Beyoncé is BLACK in the Colombian context. .. Hey
Yes ONE Colombian. And he doesn't appear to be from the Caribbean coast so he might be repeating what people in the highlands think. People in the highlands no more define how Caribbean coastal people self define than a black American can tell Dominicans in NYC how to identify.
I can well think that a tri-racial person might be defined in his eyes as a mestizo (which he might define as being Amerindian/white. rather than just merely meaning "mixed"), thus negating the aspect of their ancestry which is African.
Now let me describe 25% of Colombians as "black" and then wonder whether the 15% who don't put down "black" on the census are self hating what kind of reaction I will get. Because surveys have suggested that the Afro descendant population of Colombia is way more than the 10% who self identify as such for census purposes.
In fact this might well be part of the conspiracy of selling Colombia as a mestizo/white nation, minimizing the African input into its population. The coast is teeming with people looking like J LO and I bet she isn't categorized as being part of the 10% black population, yet clearly she is of a tri-racial mix.
Yes ONE Colombian. And he doesn't appear to be from the Caribbean coast so he might be repeating what people in the highlands think. People in the highlands no more define how Caribbean coastal people self define than a black American can tell Dominicans in NYC how to identify.
I can well think that a tri-racial person might be defined in his eyes as a mestizo (which he might define as being Amerindian/white. rather than just merely meaning "mixed"), thus negating the aspect of their ancestry which is African.
Now let me describe 25% of Colombians as "black" and then wonder whether the 15% who don't put down "black" on the census are self hating what kind of reaction I will get. Because surveys have suggested that the Afro descendant population of Colombia is way more than the 10% who self identify as such for census purposes.
In fact this might well be part of the conspiracy of selling Colombia as a mestizo/white nation, minimizing the African input into its population. The coast is teeming with people looking like J LO and I bet she isn't categorized as being part of the 10% black population, yet clearly she is of a tri-racial mix.
You are speculating and projecting over something you know nothing about. Can you provide direct evidence that there is currently a mulatto designation in Colombia? If not you need to shut up, and stop pretending you know things that you don't.
I am the color of Beyoncé, and in the context of anywhere on Spanish mainland America, I am moreno. In countries were Black people are the minority non Blacks do not care and are perhaps unable to see major differences between Black people.
You can ask or reference Black Colombians on this, but that would mean you aren't a delusional all knowing expert who makes things up just so he can be proven right.
So please provide evidence there is a mulatto category in Colombia or separate identity. If there is it should be in contemporary Colombian news, so please cite Colombisn sources.
You are speculating and projecting over something you know nothing about. Can you provide direct evidence that there is currently a mulatto designation in Colombia? If not you need to shut up, and stop pretending you know things that you don't.
I am the color of Beyoncé, and in the context of anywhere on Spanish mainland America, I am moreno. In countries were Black people are the minority non Blacks do not care and are perhaps unable to see major differences between Black people.
You can ask or reference Black Colombians on this, but that would mean you aren't a delusional all knowing expert who makes things up just so he can be proven right.
So please provide evidence there is a mulatto category in Colombia or separate identity. If there is it should be in contemporary Colombian news, so please cite Colombisn sources.
Please scroll to page 14 of this and you will see a questionnaire. This was taken to determine who was "ethnic" (anything other than "white" or "mestizo").
The statistics for "negro o afrocolombiano" were drawn from those who self identified as "Raizales," "Palenquero", "Negro", "Mulatto", "Afro colombiano", or "afro descendant".
In 1993 the census showed 1.5% of the population fitting into this category. By 2005 it had increased to 10.6% of the population. It is possible that the increase was because the 2005 census included a broader range of identities for people to connect to other than just "negro". What we do know is that there isn't some broad brushed definition in Colombia where Beyoncé. and Oprah are categorized the same.
Now to some one from Bogota all of these categories might a waste of time and they will consider all to be "black". But that is NOT how those self identify.
And in fact some think that the true Afro descended number might even be higher as many check the "mestizo" box, regardless as to whether they are Amerindian/white or not. This is like over 70% of the people in Puerto Rico checking "white" even though clearly not so many would consider themselves to be "blanco".
In addition it appears as if you pick regions with low levels of black populations and then you decide that these regions then determine black self identity in Latin America.
In order to discuss the issue of Afro descendants in Colombia you should reference the Pacific and Caribbean coasts and not the highlands where the afro descended populations are more recent, and where all sorts of biases against peoples from those regions might occur.
If J Lo weren't Hispanic she would be considered black in the USA, but that doesn't mean that she would consider herself to be black. This is what confronted many New Orleans Creoles when they left that state. To the rest of the country they are black. In NOLA they aren't.
Please scroll to page 14 of this and you will see a questionnaire. This was taken to determine who was "ethnic" (anything other than "white" or "mestizo").
The statistics for "negro o afrocolombiano" were drawn from those who self identified as "Raizales," "Palenquero", "Negro", "Mulatto", "Afro colombiano", or "afro descendant".
In 1993 the census showed 1.5% of the population fitting into this category. By 2005 it had increased to 10.6% of the population. It is possible that the increase was because the 2005 census included a broader range of identities for people to connect to other than just "negro". What we do know is that there isn't some broad brushed definition in Colombia where Beyoncé. and Oprah are categorized the same.
Now to some one from Bogota all of these categories might a waste of time and they will consider all to be "black". But that is NOT how those self identify.
And in fact some think that the true Afro descended number might even be higher as many check the "mestizo" box, regardless as to whether they are Amerindian/white or not. This is like over 70% of the people in Puerto Rico checking "white" even though clearly not so many would consider themselves to be "blanco".
That census does not describe what a mulato looks like. In fact it's nearly impossible to do so, as the color of a "mixed" race person could vary tremendously. Of course what's light skinned and what's dark skinned is also very subjective. If you are just a lighter shade of Black, in Colombia and throughout South America you are still Black/moreno.
If you have well under 50% African ancestry and you features are substantially less African (straight or close to it hair, slender nose, thinner lips) then South Americans would be more able to acknowledge the difference.
With that said Beyonce is Black in South America. People from the coastal regions of Colombia have to deal with the rest of the country, and they know very well how the country has historically treated them. It's only been recently that they've been able to move to the cities in larger numbers, go to universities, have professional jobs, etc.
Erica, from the choco, who is the same color as Beyonce is referring to the historic problems and lack of opportunities Black people had in el Choco. She says things has changed, but notice she is the same color as Beyonce, referring to herself as Black and not claiming special "mulato" privileges.
That census does not describe what a mulato looks like. In fact it's nearly impossible to do so, as the color of a "mixed" race person could vary tremendously. Of course what's light skinned and what's dark skinned is also very subjective. If you are just a lighter shade of Black, in Colombia and throughout South America you are still Black/moreno.
If you have well under 50% African ancestry and you features are substantially less African (straight or close to it hair, slender nose, thinner lips) then South Americans would be more able to acknowledge the difference.
With that said Beyonce is Black in South America. People from the coastal regions of Colombia have to deal with the rest of the country, and they know very well how the country has historically treated them. It's only been recently that they've been able to move to the cities in larger numbers, go to universities, have professional jobs, etc.
Erica, from the choco, who is the same color as Beyonce is referring to the historic problems and lack of opportunities Black people had in el Choco. She says things has changed, but notice she is the same color as Beyonce, referring to herself as Black and not claiming special "mulato" privileges.
You seem to have a fair understanding of Colombia (although I am not sure you are winning this current debate but you are holding your own)...in this post I see you referencing South America which of course includes Brazil...are you sure your analysis covers the extremely complex racial identity of that massive country?...I would be impressed if you are confident about that because in my experience Brazilians themselves seem to wrestle with the issue
You seem to have a fair understanding of Colombia (although I am not sure you are winning this current debate but you are holding your own)...in this post I see you referencing South America which of course includes Brazil...are you sure your analysis covers the extremely complex racial identity of that massive country?...I would be impressed if you are confident about that because in my experience Brazilians themselves seem to wrestle with the issue
I keep referring to the Spanish mainland South America, parts of which I know reasonably well. I do not know enough about Brazil to comment, so I am avoiding commenting on Brazil.
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