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I've lived in both Canada and the US for about 10 years each country (lived in the US first, moved to Canada, and am now back in the US). For background, I lived in Oakville and downtown Toronto in Canada and in Atlanta, NY, and NJ in the US. Personally, for me, living in the US surpasses Canada in a number of factors.
-Being an American moving to Canada, you tend to experience unsolicited racism (yes, it is racism... remove "Americas"/"Yanks" and replace with "Indians"/"Blacks" and think about how it sounds now). The amount of American "jokes" at my expense and the tendency for people to refer to anything that may happen South of the Border as "stupid" American things was offensive. It became clear very fast that a large part of Canadian's sense of pride was to bash America together.
- I am fortunate enough to have private healthcare here in the US. With that (and yes, I unerstand this is completely different otherwise), I find healthcare far superior in the US. The ability to see a doctor when needed without being waitlisted is incredible. The quality is far better, and frankly most of my Canadian friends who became doctors did so in the US.
- The US was way more homogenzied than Canada. In Canada, I first experienced racism and in the oddest ways. Aside from the "American" jokes, I was also subject to racism due to being of Indian heritage. Frankly, it was the first time I realized I was "different". In my mind, in the US we were all Americans and I never thought of myself as different. Moving into a primarily "white" neighborhood in the late 90s (Oakville), I had some offhanded comments regarding being Indian. One example is a lady in her late 30s (a parent of a friend) say "I don't mean to be offensive, but you're people are taking over our city" after seeing an elderly Indian man walking down the side of the road. Similarly, from the other side, I received a lot of comments about being "white washed" from the Indian community. I truly didn't have a 'niche' to fit into.
- Hand in hand with the above comment, my husband is Canadian and we often compare our education on US vs. Canada. In the US, we are a melting pot and proud of it. Like I said above, I never felt or even knew I was different from my peers. We all were Americans and I truly was colorblind to race. My husband learned that Canada is a mixed bag, everyone is of different races living together in Canada. He was also taught that melting pot was a negative thing. This was so strange to me, as living through both first hand, I definitely felt more estranged in the 'mixed bag' lifestyle. He has come to agree with me now in this perspective, however I do realize this is an area where some may disagree adamantly (and can understand where that stems from totally, I'm just talking on my personal experiences).
I hope I did not offend anyone, I really don't intend to. I feel many people who respond to the US vs. Canada things have only lived in one of the countries and wanted to put in my $0.02 from someone who's lived in both for equal amounts of time. Canada is a great country, but for me and based on my personal experiences, I find the US better to live in (which is why I am back ).
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds the multitudes of 'American' jokes as being quite similar to racism. I've always thought the same thing.
I don't mind a few, but many in Canada are borderline obsessed with making as many anti-American comments as possible, and up it more when they know Americans are around. They just can't seem to let it go.
Your comment about different ethnicities in the US and 'all being Americans'. I knew an Asian-American who went to Vancouver. I specifically recall her being very annoyed as most of the Canadians she met there referred to all white people there as 'Canadian' but referred to all others by their ethnic appearance. For example, they'd talk about their 'Canadian friend dating a Korean girl' rather than saying 'white guy' or 'caucasian guy' or whatever else. Rather loaded language to imply that white people are Canadians and others aren't really.
For me, personally, I kinda like really like Canada, and kind of really don't. I wouldn't live there before of the 'don'ts'. I don't like ethnic jokes, racial jokes, or nationalistic jokes - and those nationalistic ones where US seems to have to be mentioned in nearly every conversation in a negative way, gets tiring. I'm also not that big of a fan of the cold weather. I also find that Vancouver is cool, but so is San Francisco and Seattle. Toronto is cool but so is New York and Boston. Montreal is unique and would be an attractive one, but I don't feel a pull towards French immersion at all, but I could see how that would be a clincher for someone else.
Your comment about different ethnicities in the US and 'all being Americans'. I knew an Asian-American who went to Vancouver. I specifically recall her being very annoyed as most of the Canadians she met there referred to all white people there as 'Canadian' but referred to all others by their ethnic appearance. For example, they'd talk about their 'Canadian friend dating a Korean girl' rather than saying 'white guy' or 'caucasian guy' or whatever else. Rather loaded language to imply that white people are Canadians and others aren't really.
That's one thing I really like about the U.S. No matter what part of the world you come from, once you live in America and become a U.S. citizen you are 100% American. Sure, there are individuals in America who are racist and friendlier towards their own kind than others as there are everywhere. On the other hand, there are plenty of other people who are much more open-minded as well.
But the fact that you can come from Europe, Asia, Latin America, Africa or Australia and become completely a part of the cultural fabric of the U.S. is a really intriguing concept, I think.
I thik the melting pots is better than the salad bowl.
We all are different and we all recognize that, however at the end of the day, we're all american....the same...striving for the same things... good life, good family, etc. Tho lots seaparate us, one thing that brings us together is our country...'
thats what I like about america. The salad bowl concept is so "clannish" and weird in my opinion.
like the person mentioned above/.... "canadians are considered white" while everyone else is "korean" or "chinese" or "arab" They're not considered canadian.
I thik the melting pots is better than the salad bowl.
We all are different and we all recognize that, however at the end of the day, we're all american....the same...striving for the same things... good life, good family, etc. Tho lots seaparate us, one thing that brings us together is our country...'
thats what I like about america. The salad bowl concept is so "clannish" and weird in my opinion.
like the person mentioned above/.... "canadians are considered white" while everyone else is "korean" or "chinese" or "arab" They're not considered canadian.
Salad bowl! That's it. Haha, I kept thinking mixed salad and it didn't sound right, and went with mixed bag... but salad bowl is the correct term. I'm glad you see my viewpoint. Theoretically, I see the argument why melting pot can seem wrong or bad, because one can argue you lose your identity/ culture. But in practice, you choose to keep or lose as much of your background as you choose to, but at the end of the day living in a country (especially when this is where you were born and raised) where you truly are one of 'them' and not forever your parent's heritage in the eyes of white people. Both the US and Canada are no longer just white countries, and it can't be assumed that because you are colored that you are not every bit as American/ Canadian as your white friend.
Tiger Beer- The jokes are mean aren't they? And enduring them in your teens can be downright hurtful. I held my own and refused to give in (though met many Americans who moved at the same age as me and eventually were bashing America with the rest of them).
Again, I have nothing against Canadians. I am married to one, and my parents and sister still call it home. But, from my experience, I prefer living in the US (which is why I am )
For me, personally I pick Canada. Universal healthcare, a climate more suited to me, a longer life expectancy, a significantly lower rate of crime.
Other reasons in general would include better education and stronger economy.
But to an outsider, Canada and the US are almost identical in many ways. Their cities look very similar. Their accents also sound incredibly alike. Similar landscapes for the most part.
i think by contrary the US is much more likely than Canada to pigeonhole different groups of people, whether it be race or social standing or other segments.
As a society, Americans are far more concerned about race and color- i lived in Vancouver for a couple yrs and felt Canada is actually pretty colorblind...for example, did you know it is not easy to locate racial statistics of student demographics at Canadian colleges- this to me is very telling of an inclusive aspect.
Personally despite whatever racial titles they use up there, Canadians don't play up the race-card the way they do in the US (or most other countries in the world for that matter).
...for example, did you know it is not easy to locate racial statistics of student demographics at Canadian colleges- this to me is very telling of an inclusive aspect.
Or, it means they're intentionally overlooking their own racial problems and sweeping them under the rug.
I think this comment sort of proves f1000's message.
Think that if you wish. I'm simply stating that it's easy to say that somewhere is inclusive, but the statistics may not bear that out. The only way to know for sure is to engage in that measurement. That Canadian colleges don't collect the information necessary to measure inclusiveness doesn't necessarily mean they're less fixated on race. It may mean that they either don't want to know or want to hide the truth.
Only 30% of US citizens even own passports, so I have no clue what you're statement is supposed to mean.
Assuming that figure is true, that's roughly 90 million Americans. That's a lot of traveling Yanks. My experience in the larger European cities I visited is that you couldn't walk more than 50 yards without tripping over one.
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).
I'm glad you see my viewpoint. Theoretically, I see the argument why melting pot can seem wrong or bad, because one can argue you lose your identity/ culture. But in practice, you choose to keep or lose as much of your background as you choose to, but at the end of the day living in a country (especially when this is where you were born and raised) where you truly are one of 'them' and not forever your parent's heritage in the eyes of white people. Both the US and Canada are no longer just white countries, and it can't be assumed that because you are colored that you are not every bit as American/ Canadian as your white friend.
