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Tiger Bear, I find your story truly moving. How is Japan by comparison? Will you ever return to Brazil? Have you ever visited or taught in Natal? So many questions...
I love Japan. I loved Brazil too.
Yeah, I hope to return to Brazil someday. I thought about emigrating there in the distance past. At this point, it isn't really on my mind much at all anymore, and no plans to do that anymore, no particular reason than my life personal life priorities have changed significantly.
Never been to Natal, but researched it in the past. One of the unfortunate aspects of Northeast Brazil from my understanding is quite a few sex tourists from Italy and Germany. There are no direct flights from the U.S., and few Americans travel anyways. Europeans travel extensively, and there are direct flights from Italy and Germany. I haven't been to the Northeast of Brazil before, but I heard there are legions of predominately Italians and Germans all over the place with significantly younger women than themselves.
I can't recall if Natal itself is one of those entry points...I recall Fortaleza certainly is...heard that whatever it was like before, it basically all messed up because of it. Basically Northeast Brazil has become a sex tourist destination for Europeans though. On the other hand, they are also well-known for having the longest Carnival seasons in Brazil and having the most fun. The other side of that is the Nordeste/Northeast is legendary for having few high school graduates and few jobs or opportunities for its youth...
I haven't been any further north than Salvador myself. But the Northeast is a heavy indigeneous mix with african and dutch and portuguese mixed in there.
The heaviest african part of Brazil is BAHIA...and SALVADOR is the heart of it.
The southern part has more blond europeans than anywhere else. Still though, most people are the all big mix of everything.
Rio seemed to have the MOST mixes...real exotic looking people there...RIO is kind of like Los Angeles...and Sao Paulo was kind of like NYC. Sao Paulo is a business engine and where everything happens, well like NYC.
Sao Paulo has the added mix of a LARGE Japanese population (over 1 million) plus tons of Italians...those two groups don't seem to be represented as much elsewhere in the country..so makes it interesting...although SP is still predominately portuguese mixed with african appearance...which is kind of the 'standard' brazilian appearance I guess.
yes they are. but that is because of our massive sale of white guilt which the public continues to buy in huge lots.when you feed it, it gets worse not better.
Thanks for the information, Tiger Bear. I have been reading that Natal is the safest city in Brazil, and being that it is called "Natal," the holidays are the best time to visit. There are some really gorgeous videos and slideshows posted online. But nothing I've seen so far on the internet gives a sense of the racial demographics or race relations--which is really what it's all about (this thread, lest I forget, and the purpose of even raising the issue). Relations... As I said before, I enjoy meeting all kinds of people, but things do get sticky or dicey when traveling to places where the people are not used to being with Black people or where they have a collective low opinion of Black people, due to cultural conditioning or, sadly, just plain ignorance (lack of exposure, experience, knowledge). Since I live in a huge, busy, bustling, competitive city and am in the process of moving back to Madison, Wisconsin (which is a lot like Ithaca), when I vacation I look for more cool, laid-back, friendly places that are still truly culturally vibrant in terms of the the arts scene--music, theatre, etc. Does this describe any other cities in Brazil I might want to look into?
Dear Huck, I don't think anyone here is selling or promoting White guilt. At least that's not where I'm coming from. With any problem or mistake, guilt-tripping does not help. Making a person feel guilty, especially for a perceived crime they did not commit does makes things worse because guilt keeps the problem in place. On the other hand, in my experience and in my studies (cultural studies), sweeping the issue under the carpet also keeps it in place. Imo, that would be like letting a beloved family member continue doing something that is harmful to him- or herself and the family (in this case the human family) while hoping that the problem will just magically go away. I wish we lived in a world where the color of person's skin did not matter. In my world it is a very minor thing, largely because I have been blessed with a knack for attracting people who love and accept people for who they are, as people, and do not focus on supposed racial differences or create racial discord. I try to steer clear of people who judge other people based on the color of their skin--which is ridiculous, imo. My friends come from all over the world, as do my students. Shining a gentle light on the issue of racism or any form of discrimination helps when it is done in the interest of harmony and peace--esp. when dealing with people who put, I think, way too much stock in the whole concept of race. In most cases, race becomes a non-issue or a tiny blip on the screen when people take the time to get to know each other and find a huge amount of common ground.
Thanks for the information, Tiger Bear. I have been reading that Natal is the safest city in Brazil, and being that it is called "Natal," the holidays are the best time to visit. There are some really gorgeous videos and slideshows posted online. But nothing I've seen so far on the internet gives a sense of the racial demographics or race relations--which is really what it's all about (this thread, lest I forget, and the purpose of even raising the issue). Relations... As I said before, I enjoy meeting all kinds of people, but things do get sticky or dicey when traveling to places where the people are not used to being with Black people or where they have a collective low opinion of Black people, due to cultural conditioning or, sadly, just plain ignorance (lack of exposure, experience, knowledge). Since I live in a huge, busy, bustling, competitive city and am in the process of moving back to Madison, Wisconsin (which is a lot like Ithaca), when I vacation I look for more cool, laid-back, friendly places that are still truly culturally vibrant in terms of the the arts scene--music, theatre, etc. Does this describe any other cities in Brazil I might want to look into?
The mass majority of Brazilians are a large mix of skin colors, and people WONT be saying 'whats the black girl doing here?'. Brazil just ISNT like that, for one. People WILL recognize you are American though, as Americans look and act significantly differently on a cultural level despite they might can be of the same skin color.
From my experience, most people seem to have a high respect for African-American and it's culture. It's only I believe 13% of the U.S. population but HIGHLY represented in almost all aspects of the culture - music, sports, tv, movies, comedians, the next President, on and on. You have almost NO asian, latino, etc. representation...but you'll always have the african represented. I realize there are also immense social problems in the U.S. in that same community, but most of the world sees the Muhammad Ali, Louie Armstrong stuff, etc.
Everywhere you go around the world, its the Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, TuPac or whatever culture that sells...it isn't the...I don't know...who are the white people that people know from the U.S.? Brad Pitt, George Bush (internatinally most hated around the planet)...unsure who else is white and known internationally...maybe Lance Armstrong. Anyways.
I wouldn't worry about being an African-American traveling abroad anyday of the week.
I always thought the opposite...if you are white american, you are assumed to be racist, ignorant, George Bush-lover, statistically obese and loud, etc. I spend half of my existance listening to "You don't SEEM LIKE THE TYPICAL American...you aren't racist, ignorant, obese, loud, dress bad, a gun nut, war-loving, or pro-Bush'. Then I have to listen to an evening of dumb stereotypes and SLOWLY try to challenge them or ignore it. In my experience, African-Americans abroad certainly don't get the same treatment. I think they assume you're the 'good guys' and move on.
Last edited by Tiger Beer; 01-08-2009 at 09:28 AM..
This kind of stuff is so wrong and hurtful, no matter who is on the receiving end of it. You have my compassion. Been there...
In other news...lol... Just found out that the International Drama/Theatre in Education Association's (IDEA) World Congress will be in Belem, in July 2010. So exciting. So much for the idea (pun intended) of a nice, quiet, laid-back trip to Brazil, if I go that route. The plot thickens. This is an organization that is focused on building community and empowering all people across perceived racial, cultural, and economic boundaries. Synchronicity...
Wrong. I don`t know HOW this rumor got started, but it seems to be repeated quite alot. Brazilian black military history begins in the 17th century, with the "Tercio de Henriques", manned and officered by black Brazilians. In the 19th century war with Paraguay, there were entire regiments raised and officered by black Brazilians heavily involved in the Abolitionist movement. And, of course, in WWII, Brazil had the only DESEGREGATED army (at least that I'm aware of) in the European theater. The Forca Expeditionaria Brasileira wasn't tapped for occupation duties, in fact, because U.S. politicians were leary as to how ex-nazis would react to a mixed-race occupation force.
Many Americans who are interested in Brazilian race often simply do not know the basic history of what they are supposedly analyzing.
Of course, samba and bossa nova WOULD be the only Brazilian musical forms you know about, right? Bossa, while very popular overseas, was about as influential in Brazil as "cool jazz" and had a very similar social role. No American would consider "cool jazz" to be the ultimate representative of his country's music and no musically educated Brazilian would think the same of Bossa, for all its influence. Where you get the idea that SAMBA is more represented by white musicians is beyond me. you obviously either has a very liberal definition of "white" (for an American at least) or - more probabaly - your knowledge of samba doesn't extend beyond a handful of artists.
This is a bit like a Brazilian claiming that Blues is more represented by white musicians, based on watching "The Blues Brothers".
People in Brazil who are of mixed ancestry are also not generally willing to claim that they are white, either. Why one drop of black blood makes one "black" while one drop of white blood can be ignored is something that's beyond me.
Perhaps. It's hard to say, really. And given your basic errors with Brazilian black history, I think we can safely say that you are really in no position to judge. Just because you know next to no Brazilian Black history doesn't mean it doesn't exist and/or is ignored in general.
And how would someone measure and compare something like this quantitatively, anyhow?
Finally, we're talking about HISTORY here, right? Not America's make-believe history, which goes by the name of "heritage". Yeah, Kwanzaa. I'm down. That's "real black history": a totally syncretic holiday made up in the 1960s by a black grad student and which is treated by most Americans as if it were some sort of African cultural relic.
I dont think so. Brazil has had black senators and governors and congressmen than the U.S. in the 20th century and if we count pardos as "black" (as the you obviously think we should) then Brazil beats the U.S. hands down. At the municipal level, you may be right or wrong: without actually going out there and researching - instead of ASSuming, as you do- we simply can't say anything.
So does the avergae white person. And the average MArtian, for that matter...
Again, how do you know? Coming from a guy who can't even correctly perceive samba, for christsake, and yet you want us to believe you've done a sober survey of the Brazilian and American media and has come up with this result? How? And what definition of "black" did you use to do this? The Brazilian or the American?
Interracial marriages, while a minority in Brazil, are still much higher than in the U.S.
You quoted a couple of my earlier posts and for whatever reason, you seem to have quite an erroneous perception of my knowledge of African-Brazilian history, music and culture. I'll just tell you this - any time you want to discuss these issues, on or off forum, I am quite willing to do so.
Everywhere you go around the world, its the Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, TuPac or whatever culture that sells...it isn't the...I don't know...who are the white people that people know from the U.S.? Brad Pitt, George Bush (internatinally most hated around the planet)...unsure who else is white and known internationally...maybe Lance Armstrong. Anyways.
You are dead wrong, if what you said were truely the case than not a single White American music artist for example would ever be able to sell out a concert overseas since according to you it is very rare for a White American celebrity to be internationally known overseas.
Here is an example THE JAZZ MAN - Frank Facts - the good, the bad and the ugly
"Jan 26-1980 Frank Sinatra makes the Guinness Book Of World Records for his concert in Rio De Janeiro which was packed with 175,000 people. The largest live audience ever attended by a solo performer."
You are dead wrong, if what you said were truely the case than not a single White American music artist for example would ever be able to sell out a concert overseas since according to you it is very rare for a White American celebrity to be internationally known overseas.
Here is an example THE JAZZ MAN - Frank Facts - the good, the bad and the ugly
"Jan 26-1980 Frank Sinatra makes the Guinness Book Of World Records for his concert in Rio De Janeiro which was packed with 175,000 people. The largest live audience ever attended by a solo performer."
Frank Sinatra is a great and famous singer, certainly, but he certainly isn't popular culture in the current era with the current generation. Popular culture is what's popular in these particular times. All kinds of people sell out arenas, even little well-known bands from the U.S. sell them out all the time in Japan here, completely regardless of race of the artists.
But popular culture is the kind of t-shirts young people wear and what sells and is on the magazine covers all around the world for music, sports, 'popular culture' in general. Michael Jordan sells. Tiger Woods sells. The sooner Obama sells over Bush the better as well. I'm just hoping there isn't an international backlash against Obama in the future. Rap music and hip-hop is the American music that kids listen to throughout the world for this generation. I'm thinking about that, Eminem is popular throughout the world, forgot about him.
But yes, a different generation ago, it would have been Sinatra, etc. The Beatles and Stones in another generation, etc. (Actually those guys are British, but anyways, in that theme of thinking) but applying it to this decade, and particularly the last five years or so as 'popular culture'.
Last edited by Tiger Beer; 01-09-2009 at 11:22 PM..
You can tell a lot about a culture by the type of music the people enjoy. What kind of Brazilian music is popular in Rio or Sao Paulo (sp?)? The group Bossacucanova, for instance, was popular for a while. They fused bossa nova and light samba with hip-hop and other modern beats/grooves. Putumayo has a cd out called Brazilian Groove. Nice. Love it. Here's an Amazon.com link: Amazon.com: Brazilian Groove: Various Artists: Music. Fernanda Abreu, who is from Rio, has a song that combines spoken word and song on Putumayo's Global Soul cd: "Eu Quero Sol." (http://www.amazon.com/Global-Soul-Va...1596804&sr=8-2)
My guess is that the music marketed to the world is not necessarily the music enjoyed by the people. Rap may not be my first choice of music, but I do respect socially conscious or poetic rap artists' ability to convey the social situations, concerns, hopes, and dreams of the people. Being a poet and a budding singer-songwriter, I would really love to know if there are any Brazilian "neo-soul" artists or singer-songwriters who share their life experiences in Brazil through music, song, and spoken word fused with music and song.
Last edited by Indi9; 01-10-2009 at 07:18 AM..
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