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Old 01-10-2010, 07:20 AM
 
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Why is Argentina so often portrayed as being so European? OK, Buenos Aires may have the architecture of Paris or Madrid, and the latest fashions in BA come from Europe...but that's it! Ethnically, studies show that half of Argentina's population is actually mestizo (with some indigenous blood). Most "white Americans or Europeans" attract attention in Argentina because they stand out so much. Politically, socially, economically (they have fallen far) it is Latin American and not Spain or Italy. Why is Argentina so often portrayed here in the US as "Europe in South America" when it is firmly in Latin America?

 
Old 01-10-2010, 07:44 AM
 
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[quote=lentzr;12380784]....Ethnically, studies show that half of Argentina's population is actually mestizo (with some indigenous blood). Most "white Americans or Europeans" attract attention in Argentina because they stand out so much. ...[quote]

The article in this link indicates the opposite of what you have stated above.
Demographics of Argentina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 01-10-2010, 07:48 AM
 
Location: United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lentzr View Post
Why is Argentina so often portrayed as being so European? OK, Buenos Aires may have the architecture of Paris or Madrid, and the latest fashions in BA come from Europe...but that's it! Ethnically, studies show that half of Argentina's population is actually mestizo (with some indigenous blood). Most "white Americans or Europeans" attract attention in Argentina because they stand out so much. Politically, socially, economically (they have fallen far) it is Latin American and not Spain or Italy. Why is Argentina so often portrayed here in the US as "Europe in South America" when it is firmly in Latin America?
what's your source?

Plz, the average fabio of Argentina looks much much whiter than the average us national.

Argentina is 97% unmixed caucasian, and 3% multiracial (CIA worldfactbook). That country is so racist that they had a european only immigration policy. According to the argentine constitution, only europeans were allowed to move and live in Argentina.

The country that is in fact meztizo is the usa. The average US national does not look like a european ( unmixed euro blooded). The majority of US nationals are light skinned mestizos/multiracials.

Even Elvis Presley was a meztizo. (Amerindian-euro)...

The 80% "white population" of usa is not white unmixed european.

Light skinned multiracials/mestizos tend to self identify themselves as "white" in the USA.

The only remaining european homogenous countries of the new world are Argentina, Australia, Canada, and Uruguay.

Followed by New Zealand and Chile.

The USA demographics are similar to Brazil.

Last edited by Bono983; 01-10-2010 at 08:00 AM..
 
Old 01-10-2010, 09:07 AM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
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Argentina received a good deal of European immigrants, particularly Italians but also German and some others. As mentioned I don't think it as mestizo as many Latin American nations because it wasn't the site of a large Empire or civilization. Although it seems like parts of Argentina did have a substantial Mapuche population or sometimes Guarani in the area near Paraguay.

Going by genetic studies I find their ancestry is around 78% European. It might have a greater percent with Amerindian ancestry than the US or Cuba, but it's not like Meso-America or the Andes. How "white" they are I suppose depends on how one sees "whiteness." I think a good deal of their ancestry is Northern Italian and Spanish. So they aren't necessarily "Nordic" but they are largely of European ancestry.

Medicina (B. Aires)* vol.66*número2; Resumen: S0025-76802006000200004
Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies (http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/114025749/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0 - broken link)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bono983 View Post
The only remaining european homogenous countries of the new world are Argentina, Australia, Canada, and Uruguay.
In the case of Canada I think this only works if you see whiteness as non-blackness. I think Canada has a good percent of people of partial Amerindian "First Nation" ancestry. The French certainly had no problem intermixing with indigenous peoples. Also British Columbia has a strong East Asian population.
 
Old 01-10-2010, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lentzr View Post
Why is Argentina so often portrayed as being so European? OK, Buenos Aires may have the architecture of Paris or Madrid, and the latest fashions in BA come from Europe...but that's it! Ethnically, studies show that half of Argentina's population is actually mestizo (with some indigenous blood). Most "white Americans or Europeans" attract attention in Argentina because they stand out so much. Politically, socially, economically (they have fallen far) it is Latin American and not Spain or Italy. Why is Argentina so often portrayed here in the US as "Europe in South America" when it is firmly in Latin America?
Because Argentines want to be.
I completely agree with you that Argentines and Argentina are not European (in any sense of the word). The whole phenomenon is really just self-promotion of Argentina by Argentines, who have an irrational love for themselves and their country (the word "objective" does not come to mind when Argentines describe themselves or their country).

Anyone who has been to Argentina and who has known Argentines very quickly realizes that they really think that they are better than most/all countries of the world (especially other South American countries) and use many false rationales to justify their sense of superiority. When one analyzes the phenomenon, one actually realizes that its origins are based in the seldom-discussed racist attitude of many Argentines who do not want to be associated with their Mestizo heritage, which they consider "black."

What I have never understood is why so many people believe the hype when the evidence against it is so overwhelming It's nice to see that at least one person in the world is able to think independently and question an adjective that is clearly misapplied.
 
Old 01-10-2010, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Austin
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Argentinians have the same snobby attitude that the Spanish and the French have.
 
Old 01-10-2010, 11:16 AM
 
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Thanks StarlaJane, you at least see my point.

Now, my comment about "whiteness." I did not like that word. Others do, but it is a very bad word. Why? Here in the US one can be of southern Italian extraction and be considered "white." One can be of northern Spanish heritage and be seen as "hispanic" not white. Hence, I will not be calling any person "white" when we cannot even agree on what it is.

Anyway, the wikipedia article claims that there are millions of German-Argentines...they are not mostly pure German! I spoke to my Argentine profesor about this. Those same "German-Argentine" may alos have large amounts of southern European and even Indigenous heritage as well. In general, Argentina is a predominetly (in ethnic terms) southern European society with some "other European" and Indigenous heritage. However, the sub-national groups that are so prevalent in the USA comprise only a very small minority of Argentina's population. In other words, it is a largely homogenous population. Argentines has their own hertiage that should not be described as a "european" one.

As for the USA being similar to Brazil...that is a stretch. Most Brazilians are mixed. Yes there are some of purely Germanic heritage and many of mostly African heritage, but the majority are mixed. DO NOT RELY ON THE CENSUS BECAUSE MANY BRAZILIANS CLASSIFIED AS "BROWN" LOOK AFRICAN, AND MANY CLASSIFIED AS "WHITE" LOOK MORE MESTIZO. The United States still barely has a "white" majority (that is mostly central, eastern and northern european) but only up to 30% have heritage from other races. Too many European immigrants came in the 1800's and 1900's. Even the Euro-Americans with indigenous or African ancestary may not even know about that small part of their families past...it has often been forgotten, especially since it does not show up in their physical features. Hence, there can still be said to have a majority, unlike Brazil which is more mixed. I DO BELEIVE WE WILL EVENTUALLY BE LIKE BRAZIL, BUT IT IS WAY TOO EARLY TO SAY THAT. ETHNIC AND RACIAL BOUNDARIES ARE FAR TOO OBVIOUS FOR THE USA TO BE PUT IN THE SAME CATEGORY AS BRAZIL. I hope we can be more like Brazil (not that it is a racial utopia) so that race and what it means to be a certain "color" will not be as important as it is now.

Thomas R. Going back to Argentina. OK, you have a point that even Argentines that are really mestizo are predominetly of European heritage. However, that is where the "european" nature of Argentines ends!

Finally, Stats on Education and Health care are irrelevant. Look at Cuba's impressive health statistics. IS Cuba a developed "European" country? Heck No! If you look at Argentina's level of economic development it is impressive by Latin American standards (perhaps middle income on the global scale) but in Europe Argentina would be considered too poor and undeveloped. In terms of economic and social structure it has more in common with Chile and Brazil than with Spain or Italy.
 
Old 01-10-2010, 12:30 PM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
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To be honest many of the things I've read Argentina sounds like a poorly ran nation that's been surpassed in prosperity and development by Chile. (And that's partly going by an Argentine I "knew", I co-wrote a book review with him, at a science fiction forum)

Saying that I think they really are less "mestizo" than many, but certainly not all, Latin American countries doesn't mean I think they are actually like a European nation. It certainly doesn't mean they're necessarily "better" as I don't think having more European ancestry makes one "better."
 
Old 01-10-2010, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
To be honest many of the things I've read Argentina sounds like a poorly ran nation that's been surpassed in prosperity and development by Chile. (And that's partly going by an Argentine I "knew", I co-wrote a book review with him, at a science fiction forum)

Saying that I think they really are less "mestizo" than many, but certainly not all, Latin American countries doesn't mean I think they are actually like a European nation. It certainly doesn't mean they're necessarily "better" as I don't think having more European ancestry makes one "better."
In their [the Argentine's mind], it does, which is why they (and anyone who is promoting them) refer to themselves as "european."
And citing census figures as data that proves a point is misleading, especially in this instance. After all, if you think being of european descent is better than being of non-european descent, then are you really going to be honest about that non-european heritage on a census questionnaire? Not likely.
As I have said, most Argentines are not what one would call objective, especially when speaking about themselves or their country, which means that one really needs to question (as the OP is doing) any info coming from them, especially info regarding themselves and their country.
Anyone who thinks that Argentina is "european" is laboring under a misapprehension that has been propagated by people who think that being of european descent makes them superior to others. As we all seem to know, they aren't and it doesn't.
 
Old 01-10-2010, 03:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joejitsu View Post
Argentinians have the same snobby attitude that the Spanish and the French have.
And Americans.
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